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Random Discussion on Weapon Systems 
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Post Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Arioch wrote:
(detailed answer on weapon systems deleted...)
...

I have on my list to add an Insider page on the various weapons systems, and that's most likely when those details will be worked out.

So, how about some speculation? :D

@Arioch: This isn´t meant as critique or pushing a request programme. You can be proud of your art, and for instance i remember well when Madsniper from White Noise went ballistic after some smartass showed up in her discussion forum giving smart advice. That´s not what i want.

Let´s just throw in some thoughts about possible/impossible weapons or weapons from rarely known sf-operas, their abilities, requirements and drawbacks.

I start with Orion-7´s Overkill Device:
Sets off a Sub-Gluon-level chainreaction (technobabble-alert ;)) by disturbing wave-particle balance. Destroys theoretically everything from capital ships to black holes (!). No countermeasures possible (e.g. shields).

Can be mounted on ships as small as fast cruisers, but excessive computingpower is required the further the target is away. Range up to 30 LS practically, with no limits theoretically if you have access to infinite computingpower.
Can be set off backwards in time, but this was strictly forbidden by both Central Command and GSD (secret service) due to severe problems with time-travel-paradoxes and insufficient calculation possibilities.
General van Dyke refused to install this weapon on her flagship Hydra and delegated it to McLane´s Orion.

Drawbacks: OD is unpredictable. There´s everything from fail to total consumption of target. Flashovers to the firing/unleashing ship possible if distance is too low, and likely if fired in gas-, plasma- or proplyd clouds. NEVER unleash it in direction of your own engine plumes! Long charge time (several minutes), on long distance even longer calculation time. Not suitable on high manouvreable targets.
TRAV (intel/sigint) is always p*ssed when OD is unleashed without previous notice because ALL sensors pointing to the hemisphere (!) of the theater are toast.
OD has an impact on FTL communication and Jumps, sometimes even far away from the theater.
Device wears out rapidly, then endangering the own ship even on idle. OD also is excessively expensive, time-consuming and complicated to build and adjust.

OD has more drawbacks than a stray dog fleas, but it´s THE most powerful weapon with regards to destruction.
Use it wise (or in acute danger as a last resort) and scarcely. ;)


Edit: On a side note from the now defunct german Raumpatrouille-Forum, OD was developed by "New Telefunken", company motto: "Insane and proud of it!" :D

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Wed May 11, 2011 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Superweapons always have some drawback. Otherwise they are just weapons and you sprinkle them about your hull like candy toppers.

Fiction superweapons are mostly limited by some rarity; resource, power consumption, logistics factor.
Real life superweapons are limited by effect that are unwanted by the user, Nukes are radioactive/fck with the climate if enough are used. Biological weapons keep going most of the time after you want them to stop. And chemical can waft back on to your troops land ect. Also civilians will usually be rite ticked at you with using those as well.

Basically real life we dont care about the cost we'll just build a thousand instead of 10 and make up the savings in bulk. In fiction there has to be some reason why its not the main gun on every ship, where probably IRL there would be 3 on each ship. Otherwise its not "the superweapon" plot point anymore.

Macross got sorta close to this with the Macross cannon as they mostly used it whenever they got a good clean shot on some ships. It fits the superweapon category but theres no " its bad to use because list" So they smash the "Win" button allot as would most reasonable people. Most writers try and keep teh god gun from going off every other episode, they feel it looses something [plot]. Where as someone in a fight with someone just wants to win and will throw the biggest punch they have at a good excuse.


Wed May 11, 2011 6:07 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Pffft...Reflex Cannon.

Beat this:
Image


Thu May 12, 2011 3:39 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
The big discussion about linacs vs railguns got me thinking about cyclotrons, but some further reading revealed that they don't work at any particle speeds above a few percent of c due to relativistic effects messing up the interaction with the alternating magnetic fields.

So not willing to let a neat idea die, I just figured you could use a synchrotron for a gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchrotron

A 100m diameter synchrotron accelerating particles to near light speed. And since it's all magnetically levitated, the particles are antimatter. That ought to leave a mark.

*disclaimer: I don't care what physics has to say about this, rule of cool is in effect.


Fri May 13, 2011 12:24 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
If we're just talking about random weapons from other sci-fi, I've been thinking lately about Andromeda's nova bombs. Their stated effect is simple, even if their mechanism is unknowable. They turn off gravity. As a weapon system they're completely worthless in ship to ship combat, they don't do a thing. Drop one on a star, however, and things get a bit exciting. And their standard ships of the line carry forty as standard armament...

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Fri May 13, 2011 1:02 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Siber wrote:
If we're just talking about random weapons from other sci-fi...

Not necessarily.

Siber wrote:
I've been thinking lately about Andromeda's nova bombs. Their stated effect is simple, even if their mechanism is unknowable. They turn off gravity. As a weapon system they're completely worthless in ship to ship combat, they don't do a thing. Drop one on a star, however, and things get a bit exciting. And their standard ships of the line carry forty as standard armament...

Throw it on a binary system, and you´ll have two runaways...

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Fri May 13, 2011 1:46 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Majincarne wrote:
Superweapons always have some drawback. Otherwise they are just weapons and you sprinkle them about your hull like candy toppers.

Fiction superweapons are mostly limited by some rarity; resource, power consumption, logistics factor.
Real life superweapons are limited by effect that are unwanted by the user, Nukes are radioactive/fck with the climate if enough are used. Biological weapons keep going most of the time after you want them to stop. And chemical can waft back on to your troops land ect. Also civilians will usually be rite ticked at you with using those as well.

Basically real life we dont care about the cost we'll just build a thousand instead of 10 and make up the savings in bulk. In fiction there has to be some reason why its not the main gun on every ship, where probably IRL there would be 3 on each ship. Otherwise its not "the superweapon" plot point anymore.

Macross got sorta close to this with the Macross cannon as they mostly used it whenever they got a good clean shot on some ships. It fits the superweapon category but theres no " its bad to use because list" So they smash the "Win" button allot as would most reasonable people. Most writers try and keep teh god gun from going off every other episode, they feel it looses something [plot]. Where as someone in a fight with someone just wants to win and will throw the biggest punch they have at a good excuse.


....which points out the crazy hypocracy of the "Neutron Bomb" debacle. Back in the '70s, the US invented a nuclear weapon that, when detonated, produced little blast/heat effect and a commisurately reduced fallout. The remaining energy, however, was converted into a wave of fast neutrons, fatally ionizing every living thing within line-of-site or behind inadequate shielding (like- a mountain.... a big one). Detonate one over a city and the inhabitants- all of them... and their pets- are dead, but the city is only moderately damaged and free of radioactive contamination. When the characteristics of the weapon were disclosed, the public went mad- on both sides of the iron curtain. It seems that, if you make a WMD (in this case the D is for death, not destruction) with no down-side, everyone will be afraid it will be used. Maybe they're right. On the other hand, I can promise you that if a first-strike against the U.S. had been detected, none of the down-sides of our then-current inventory would have prevented their deployment. So instead of depopulated cities, we would have a series of smoking craters where the cities used to be. Does that make anyone feel better?

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Sat May 14, 2011 6:49 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
The French specialized in neutron bombs and they were designed to incapacitate Russian armor units. Furthermore, these weapons are relatively survivable. If one were underground in a relatively simple shelter when such a weapon was detonated, one would most likely
not be harmed. Neutron bombs are not a "super weapon;" they are a weapons with a very specialized purpose in asymmetrical warfare.

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Sat May 14, 2011 8:47 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Majincarne wrote:
Real life superweapons are limited by effect that are unwanted by the user, Nukes are radioactive/fck with the climate if enough are used. Biological weapons keep going most of the time after you want them to stop.

This is a cool aspect i didn´t see before. Heck, i saw Blade Runner, but of course bacteria etc could also be modified.
I think it´d be valid to say that genetic engineering (at least in SF) could vastly improve on that. Hell, a new (hellish) world!

Majincarne wrote:
Macross got sorta close to this with the Macross cannon as they mostly used it whenever they got a good clean shot on some ships. It fits the superweapon category but theres no " its bad to use because list" So they smash the "Win" button allot as would most reasonable people.

That´d be boring.
Because real Heroes are born only in desperation.


Cdr Straker wrote:
(on neutron bombs)
...When the characteristics of the weapon were disclosed, the public went mad- on both sides of the iron curtain.

Which was a good thing BTW.

Cdr Straker wrote:
So instead of depopulated cities, we would have a series of smoking craters where the cities used to be. Does that make anyone feel better?

This a trick discussion. "Choose A OR B". Well, i choose none of them. ;)

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Sun May 15, 2011 8:04 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Trantor wrote:
That´d be boring.
Because real Heroes are born only in desperation.

Except given the scale of the opposition the Macross is dealing with, the Macross cannon doesn't really qualify as a super weapon.

Sure, it can one shot an enemy ship. But the enemy even at their lowest point had TENS OF THOUSANDS of capitol ships within the Sol system. Even the beefed up version of the Macross cannon they had in antarctica which was capable of wiping out thousands of Zentradi ships at once was strategically irrelevant given the Zentradi numbers.


See, if humanity Macross had ANY super weapon, it was J-pop.*

*In fact, the most effective strategy humanity might have taken would have been to surrender to the Breetai fleet right away.


Sun May 15, 2011 8:34 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Quote:
See, if humanity Macross had ANY super weapon, it was J-pop.*

*In fact, the most effective strategy humanity might have taken would have been to surrender to the Breetai fleet right away.


I never thought about it that way, but your right. Or at least drag on surrender negotiations for a few months.


Sun May 15, 2011 9:19 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Humanity's super weapon is DECULTURE!

There might be some amusing parrallels within Outsider regarding that...


Mon May 16, 2011 1:23 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Rosen_Ritter_1 wrote:
See, if humanity Macross had ANY super weapon, it was J-pop.*


Culture...not J-pop. In the original Macross, Zentradi were exposed to human culture and were beginning to splinter and defect. Music/singing was just there to tip the already wobbly scale.

It's in the sequels where the horiblness of J-pop as weapon truly begun. Everything except the Original Macross is dead to me.


Mon May 16, 2011 5:27 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
TrashMan wrote:
Culture...not J-pop. In the original Macross, Zentradi were exposed to human culture and were beginning to splinter and defect. Music/singing was just there to tip the already wobbly scale.

It's in the sequels where the horiblness of J-pop as weapon truly begun. Everything except the Original Macross is dead to me.

Wait. Really? Someone didn't remember that the Zentradi being defeated by J-pop was just the memetic thing to say?


Ah well. It's not like I had much interest in many of the Macross series post the original series/movie and Macross Plus anyhow.


Mon May 16, 2011 6:31 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
+1 for the culture.

Does anyone here remember Zentradi reactions to a "simple" kiss? I'd say that they were worse than J-Pop.


Mon May 16, 2011 9:04 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
TrashMan wrote:
Rosen_Ritter_1 wrote:
See, if humanity Macross had ANY super weapon, it was J-pop.*
Culture...not J-pop. In the original Macross, Zentradi were exposed to human culture and were beginning to splinter and defect. Music/singing was just there to tip the already wobbly scale.

It's in the sequels where the horiblness of J-pop as weapon truly begun. Everything except the Original Macross is dead to me.
Voitan wrote:
Humanity's super weapon is DECULTURE!

There might be some amusing parrallels within Outsider regarding that...
AndrejaKo wrote:
+1 for the culture.

Does anyone here remember Zentradi reactions to a "simple" kiss? I'd say that they were worse than J-Pop.

Guys, you´re dragging this into a whole new direction.
















I like it. :mrgreen:

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Mon May 16, 2011 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
TrashMan wrote:
Rosen_Ritter_1 wrote:
See, if humanity Macross had ANY super weapon, it was J-pop.*


Culture...not J-pop. In the original Macross, Zentradi were exposed to human culture and were beginning to splinter and defect. Music/singing was just there to tip the already wobbly scale.

It's in the sequels where the horiblness of J-pop as weapon truly begun. Everything except the Original Macross is dead to me.


*Gasp!* Not even Macross Frontier!?

That show is pretty damn good...

And Zero and Plus, also very good, IMO.


Mon May 16, 2011 12:22 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
My first exposure to Macross was the one with the crazy A.I. idol going crazy and snagging that heroine chick in electric wire bondage.

Anyways culture as a weapon, eh? Ranged Foot Massage anyone?


Mon May 16, 2011 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Voitan wrote:
*Gasp!* Not even Macross Frontier!?

That show is pretty damn good...

And Zero and Plus, also very good, IMO.



Hell no. Macross keeps getting stupider in every possible way with each "sequel". The visuals might improve, but the core is rotten and falling apart.

Macross Plus was OK
Zero has massive potential (best macross visuals and air battlesto date), but the horrible bird-human and song-power killed it.

And everything else? I don't even want to comment on soul-sucking aliens, J-pop power, and idiot-ball characters. Just...no.


Fri May 27, 2011 12:57 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Imbrooge wrote:
My first exposure to Macross was the one with the crazy A.I. idol going crazy and snagging that heroine chick in electric wire bondage.

Anyways culture as a weapon, eh? Ranged Foot Massage anyone?


I was actually thinking broadcasting our weirdest p0rn on all channels and frequencies.
Let the melting of alien brainz commence.


...


Altough it would be funny if that just turned the aliens into sex-crazed maniacs...


Fri May 27, 2011 1:00 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
TrashMan wrote:
Imbrooge wrote:
Altough it would be funny if that just turned the aliens into sex-crazed maniacs...

Given the fact that Loroi and humans are physically compatible...


Fri May 27, 2011 11:24 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Feretto wrote:
Given the fact that Loroi and humans are physically compatible...

Better: Fun without alimony-risk. *cough* SCNR.

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Fri May 27, 2011 11:37 am
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Feretto wrote:
Given the fact that Loroi and humans are physically compatible...


Well you never know...
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/524391


Fri May 27, 2011 12:02 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
dfacto wrote:
Feretto wrote:
Given the fact that Loroi and humans are physically compatible...


Well you never know...
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/524391


Hasn't it been implied that Loroi males have a comparable .... what alternatives could there be for the other 90% of the population....

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Fri May 27, 2011 9:19 pm
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Post Re: Random Discussion on Weapon Systems
Ah yes, Macross... Loved Frontier, 7 was... kinda slow, but that just me...
Sequals always aspire to be better than the first and almost never succeed... Hate newer prequals based on 20-30 year shows... :(

Have a question about the Weapons Technology section... (if the creator reads this..?) Just an annoying statement...
The list there went:
laser (ofcourse, understandable)
laser-resistant armor (one want to defend against the same weapons)
neutral particle beam (wat..?)
charged/helical particle beam
defensive screens ( a strong magnetic field aught to do it :D )
plasma focus
pulse cannon (pulse what? laser? plasma? heart rate?.. no, found it, it WAS plasma, sorry :D )

But if this IS part of the fictive things let's just ignore it, shall we..? :D Don't really know how it was meant to be...
:ugeek: The funny thing is that we have had the technology to affect charged particle beams (particle accelerators) about 50 years longer than we have had laser tech.
Neutral particles are impossible to affect, since they ARE neutral. Also why it took so long to find the neutron. To accelerate them you need like gunpowder or something :) . Very difficult to make a beam out of it at all. Or you can do what they do today in labs or other places where they need neutrons and other neutral charges (nuclear reactors, creation of deuterium and tritium, etc.). They use a radioactive material that emmits neutron during decay. Not much speed to get from that. But if we ignore that part.. :) Pros and cons of charged vs. neutral: Charged particles are easy (and cheap) to accelerate (ah, yes the ol' CRT... :mrgreen: ) Neutral particles are complex to accelerate (lets ignore price...). Neutrons are generally unstable when alone and decay quite fast to a proton and an electron (beta decay). Charged particles also do more damage than neutral, and have the added bonus of a small EMP effect at the target location (think it was mentioned). Too flimsy an explanation..? :ugeek:
Another fun thing about beams... The faster ther particles are fired, the longer the distance.
So a list could look like:
laser (all ready to go), can be pulse (higher energy) or beam (lower energy)
laser countermeasures (gas (ablative hull?) or a mirror hull if the lasers are within the optical range :D )
particle weapons (needs more development), can be in beam (Go Homeworld :D ) or pulse (Homeworld 2) configurations
defensive screens (if it works for particle weaponry it will work for plasma weaponry)
plasma weapons (same as particles, so it is easy to develop from those), a beam may be dificult since one wish to retain the high thermal energy, so pulse is probably a
logical first step... also agrees with Historians giving the Loroi a "dumed-down" version of plasma tech...

Otherwise I apologize if I came off too... something... with all this pointless comments... :|
:idea: Ooh... just figured out how to actually make a "kind of" neutral particle weapon...


Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:12 pm
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