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Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:27 am
by Hālian
Anyone? Bueller?

e: Also, would it be possible to get a Trade grammar and dictionary at some point? :3

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:34 am
by Arioch
Sorry. There is a grammar guide here, and the current dictionary is here. The dictionary is missing a lot of words, but I don't have time to update it right now.
Attention! The door from away stand.
toi-lal! sallit ronnei tanzi penzero.
Your computer to be cycled is required. Until (it) deactivates (the) power button press, subsequently (the) power button again press.
lozen mestaladi to digeladeri ledareri. lashri darei lollas ranzet to binaniro, pabi lollas ranzet to bozil binaniro.
Count Casimir wrote:It does remind me to ask--are E sounds more often long or short in LT?

Short. There's a pronunciation guide here.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:54 am
by Hālian
I personally find it fascinating how similar the grammars of Trade and Japanese are. :P

And I meant more like a proper reference grammar — maybe I could write one? :3

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:21 am
by Arioch
Not sure what you mean by a "proper reference grammar."

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:28 am
by Hālian
What is a reference grammar? The SIL says it's "a prose-like description of the major grammatical constructions in a language, illustrated with examples." It's basically a paper outlining a language's phonology, morphology, grammar, and syntax in detail.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:15 am
by Hālian
What does a circle represent in the Loroi script (as about halfway down loroi_script.gif)?

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:56 am
by Arioch
CJ Miller wrote:What does a circle represent in the Loroi script (as about halfway down loroi_script.gif)?
If my memory is correct, it was supposed to represent shorthand for a repeated vowel, so in this case for tonirrir it represented the second "i". I've given up on that idea.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:02 am
by Hālian
And how do I type an accented vowel (e.g. mé) or a repeated-letter caron in the fonts you provided on page 1?

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:03 pm
by Arioch
The fonts don't include any special characters or punctuation.

The accents on the vowels in some the romanized texts aren't don't require any special marks in the Trade script; Trades vowels are very regular. I was just trying to indicate that me and to and a should be pronounced "may" and "tow" and "ah" rather than "mee" and "too" and "ei" as an English speaker is probably wont to do. But I'm probably just confusing people.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:53 pm
by Hālian
You ought to provide IPA for pronounciation too :3

Also how do I form plurals? The only suggestion I see is adding -er to the 2PS pronoun to make it 2PP.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:22 pm
by Arioch
There's no difference between singular and plural nouns. One Soroin, two Soroin.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:13 am
by Hālian
Oh. Alright then.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:05 am
by Hālian
What are the names of the Loroi Trade letters?

Do any Loroi sub/cultures use numerals or something approaching them?

What letter, if any, would Loroi use as a wildcard (as we use x, &c.)?

Also, do you have an IM account? because I'm contemplating translating some Magic: the Gathering cards into Trade and would verymuch like to get more timely answers to my questions about the Loroi languages :3

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:56 pm
by Arioch
Trade really isn't at the point where you can do lots of translation without there being gaps. I can fill in gaps as needed for my own purposes, but obviously that's not something I have time to do on-demand for everyone that asks. I doubt Trade will ever be at the point where it will be as complete as something like Tolkien's Elvish languages; that level of detail can take a lifetime to assemble, and I don't have any such ambitions for Trade. It's just a list of Loroi words that got out of hand.

When I can I'll update the lexicon with more words from my own list, which may help some with the gaps, but that takes a lot of effort, and when it's been several months since the last new comic page, I think most people would rather have my efforts focused elsewhere.

I don't have names for the letters.

The Loroi use letters for numerals. It's possible that various subcultures or technical specialties use different systems, but that's not the kind of detail I can realistically supply.

Mainstream Loroi don't speak in mathematical jargon. If they needed to refer to a wildcard, they would use a pronoun (mezi he/she/it), or refer to the object in question as a "thing" (milol).

I'll answer questions here as best I can, and if I forget to answer for a long time, you can drop me an email, but I don't generally give out my private IM or phone information on the internet.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:54 am
by Hālian
Arioch wrote:Mainstream Loroi don't speak in mathematical jargon. If they needed to refer to a wildcard, they would use a pronoun (mezi he/she/it), or refer to the object in question as a "thing" (milol).
That would make Loroi MTG cards... not as awkwardly worded as I thought*. Where the English one says, for example, "Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the number of creatures you control." would instead say "Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn for each creature you control."

* One exception is Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is Auriok Bladewarden's power. I can't think of a way to word it in Trade that wouldn't be awkward like "Target creature gains power and toughness equal to Auriok Bladewarden's power until end of turn".

In that vein, what symbols if any do the Loroi use to represent addition and subtraction?

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:52 am
by Arioch
CJ Miller wrote: One exception is Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is Auriok Bladewarden's power. I can't think of a way to word it in Trade that wouldn't be awkward like "Target creature gains power and toughness equal to Auriok Bladewarden's power".

Is that awkward? Sounds perfectly clear to me, and isn't any longer than the +X/+X version.
CJ Miller wrote: In that vein, what symbols if any do the Loroi use to represent addition and subtraction?
Again, the Loroi don't write in mathematical shorthand, so they would just write out the words for add (v. derre; n. "addition" derred), subtract (v. bizipi), etc.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:05 pm
by discord
side note, i feel sorry for Loroi mathematicians.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:28 pm
by bunnyboy
discord wrote:side note, i feel sorry for Loroi mathematicians.
As there are different requirements, they may have developed their own logi-linguistic way to write their thoughts.
Image
How does this resemble at all normal writing?

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:11 pm
by discord
bunny: that's just it, that is mathematics, it is a language of it's own....the loroi however are stuck with what resembles roman numerals in base eight, they don't even have a flipping 'zero', just the concept of nothing, written as 'nothing', that just does not fly well in math.

doing anything much more complicated than 1+1 is a pain in the behind using the loroi system, example.
ZP addition MP equals
or
10+16=
at this level of simplicity it gets that long, do you think the loroi equivalent of V=hwl gets shorter, since they do not have a specialized math symbols/language for even the basic addition/subtraction? and this is simply the formula for figuring out the volume of a box,
actually i think it would go something like.
volume equals height times width times length.
V=hwl

general relativity? i feel so sorry for loroi mathematicians.

Re: Loroi Trade translation request general

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:29 pm
by Arioch
No doubt Loroi mathematicians have arcane jargon for their own purposes, but it is not mainstream to the culture the way algebra is for us.

Actually I think it's impressive that such things are mainstream in our culture especially given how loudly most people profess to be ignorant about math. If you describe a simple equation (such as that on the MtG card in question) in terms of X and Y, the vast majority of people will understand exactly what you mean.