sci-fi creative writting tips?

[javcs]

junk: which is why jedi really have no business on a battlefield, spec ops or even fighter craft sure but not as infantry on a battlefield.

That is what really annoyed me (among 1000 other things) in episode 2, when they wasted all those jedi in that bowl.

I think some of that could be attributed to bad threat analysis/appreciation, and some of it to rushing around without thinking. But there were a lot of things that have no (good) explanation.

However ... if we start going on about all the things that annoyed us in Episode 2, we're bound to segue into Episode 3 and the Clone Wars series and such. And let's not go there - way too much to rant about there.

On another note, somewhat related, Disney has bought Lucasfilm, and allegedly the plan is for a new live-action trilogy, slated for 2015, 2017, and 2019 releases (in theory).

[Karst45]

the reason why they all get into that arena (or bowl) is because, bright light show are cool!



Dont overthink it too much.

[Michael]

Pleas tell me we're not opening the the great wound that is Star Wars...

[Karst45]

Sometime you must remove those bandage to see how infected that wound got over the time

[Michael]

.....::Sigh:: Very well.
I liked the Original Trilogy, the Prequel Trilogy was also enjoyable from an aesthetic point of view, the story line needed work.
I like KotOR, but since my discs are scratched to hell I can't finish it, haven't played the 2nd one yet.
Not seen the christmas special, nor have I read the books or comics, and Yes, I am interested in seeing how the 3rd Trilogy will go. From what I've read at IGN, there will be a 3rd Trilogy.

And yes, I have heard of Shabby Blue.

[Ninja edit] Shabby is NSFW.

[Mr Bojangles]

.....::Sigh:: Very well.
I liked the Original Trilogy, the Prequel Trilogy was also enjoyable from an aesthetic point of view, the story line needed work.
I like KotOR, but since my discs are scratched to hell I can't finish it, haven't played the 2nd one yet.
Not seen the christmas special, nor have I read the books or comics, and Yes, I am interested in seeing how the 3rd Trilogy will go. From what I've read at IGN, there will be a 3rd Trilogy.

And yes, I have heard of Shabby Blue.

[Ninja edit] Shabby is NSFW.

To say that the Prequel Trilogy's "story" needed work is a vast understatement. Also, very kind. I have to give you kudos for your ability to maintain a level head and keep your speech civil.

The first KoToR was great. The second was a horrible, buggy mess. Pieces of it were actually missing! It wasn't really finished before RTM, let alone GA.

The Xmas Special is hilariously bad, and some of the EU is really good. You may have heard of the Thrawn Trilogy (or Heir to the Empire) by Timothy Zahn? Worth a read.

And for Disney to not make the third trilogy would be foolish. It'll be the one (huge) piece of the movie franchise that they'll wholly own. Absurd amounts of money to be made.

So, by your edit, did you look into Shabby Blue after you posted?

[fredgiblet]

I believe that the reconstruction project for KotoR 2 has returned most of the unfinished parts to playability.

If Disney paid $4 Billion and didn't make more movies then their shareholders would probably have a decent case for a lawsuit

[javcs]

If Disney paid $4 Billion and didn't make more movies then their shareholders would probably have a decent case for a lawsuit

Probably true ... even though with or without new movies Star Wars makes fucktons. Granted, a new trilogy is almost bound to make even more, assuming that it's not horribly botched.


Though, I've gotta admit ... Star Wars has gotten kind of repetitive - it seems like every time they need a major, long term bad guy, they turn to some previously hidden Sith faction ... and it's a surprise every damned time, and then Republic constantly demilitarizes and disarms the Jedi and forgets about the Sith. And the Jedi - they supposedly have some of the best historical archives ever, especially on the Sith, and they never learn from the last time.

[manticore7]

from what I gather it seems to be a cycle. The Jedi are on top of the Galaxy till the Sith rise up and almost wipe the Jedi out, than the Jedi bounce back defeat the Sith and are on top again

[Mr Bojangles]

All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

Over, and over, and over, and over... Sorry, javcs.

[fredgiblet]

Though, I've gotta admit ... Star Wars has gotten kind of repetitive - it seems like every time they need a major, long term bad guy, they turn to some previously hidden Sith faction ... and it's a surprise every damned time, and then Republic constantly demilitarizes and disarms the Jedi and forgets about the Sith. And the Jedi - they supposedly have some of the best historical archives ever, especially on the Sith, and they never learn from the last time.

It was even worse in the EU, where for 20 years there was book after book about defeating the newest previously unmentioned or hidden Imperial armada. That changed with the New Jedi Order, which was also, unfortunately, the same time I stopped reading.

[Dragoon]

Though, I've gotta admit ... Star Wars has gotten kind of repetitive - it seems like every time they need a major, long term bad guy, they turn to some previously hidden Sith faction ... and it's a surprise every damned time, and then Republic constantly demilitarizes and disarms the Jedi and forgets about the Sith. And the Jedi - they supposedly have some of the best historical archives ever, especially on the Sith, and they never learn from the last time.

Kind of historically accurate though...just ask France.Britain, The Us...Oh we just fought a major war and beat one set of bad guys...lets get rid of all our ships tanks and planes...we won't ever need them....what are the odds of another war happening....

Actually Pretty good would be the right answer.

My Fondest dream would be a star wars movie devoid of Gungans, Ewoks, or some other fuzzy lovable critters which win the day by sheer luck and heartwarming courage in the face of guys armed with weapons that should reduce them to a glowing puddle of green goo.

[javcs]

Though, I've gotta admit ... Star Wars has gotten kind of repetitive - it seems like every time they need a major, long term bad guy, they turn to some previously hidden Sith faction ... and it's a surprise every damned time, and then Republic constantly demilitarizes and disarms the Jedi and forgets about the Sith. And the Jedi - they supposedly have some of the best historical archives ever, especially on the Sith, and they never learn from the last time.

It was even worse in the EU, where for 20 years there was book after book about defeating the newest previously unmentioned or hidden Imperial armada. That changed with the New Jedi Order, which was also, unfortunately, the same time I stopped reading.

Yeah. There was that for a while .. and the proliferation of SSDs was ... surprising. Although, pretty much none of the unmentioned or hidden or remaining Imperial forces were ever serious long term threats, or even major (relatively speaking), except for the official Imperial Remnant and Thrawn's Empire of the Hand out in the Unknown Regions. Oh, I guess Zsinj was around for a while too.

Unfortunately for the post NJO-era ... the Sith are back. First Jacen Solo is secret Sith Lord who takes over the Galactic Alliance that replaced the New Republic, then in the Legacy Era (~140 ABY), SURPRISE! the Sith are back - and so's the Galactic Empire ... FFS.
Oh .. wait, no the Legacy of the Force/Fate of the Jedi stuff ... which I think is approximately concurrent/shortly after the Jacen is a Sith stuff ... there's a Sith Empire out there (yeah, another one) ... somewhere, and Luke friggin' knows about them.



I think things seeming so cyclical would irritate me less if (a) there hadn't been that prophesy stuff about Anakin bringing balance back to the Force (at least, in the post-movie EU), and (b) they'd actually learn from things that had happened ... and weren't taken completely by surprise every goddamned time (seriously ... why is it that there was only one serious attempt to make sure that the Sith really had been wiped out - and it was an unofficial program!).

[Absalom]

Yeah. There was that for a while .. and the proliferation of SSDs was ... surprising.

Considering that it's an entire galaxy I'd say it's to be expected, but certainly I don't really recall any of the books giving enough idea of scale to justify the dime-a-dozen SSDs.

and (b) they'd actually learn from things that had happened ... and weren't taken completely by surprise every goddamned time (seriously ... why is it that there was only one serious attempt to make sure that the Sith really had been wiped out - and it was an unofficial program!).

Well, in their defense, we are talking about very long spans of time in many cases, where the Jedi are presumably always working on a variety of problems, so after a few generations without a resurgence it seems likely for them to grow lax. Do you really think we'd expect it if the Romans just suddenly sprang up out of nowhere to conquer the Mediterranean again?

And as for wiping them out, the prequel trilogy gave me the impression that attempting it would greatly increase the chances of the participating Jedi falling to the Darkside. And considering the semi-"current" idea of One Master-One Student and the wealth of Dark Jedi pupils that e.g. Sidious (or was it Dooku? Or both?) took on, if you don't already know exactly who the current Sith are you wouldn't know if you just killed the seat-warmers anyways.

[javcs]

Yeah. There was that for a while .. and the proliferation of SSDs was ... surprising.

Considering that it's an entire galaxy I'd say it's to be expected, but certainly I don't really recall any of the books giving enough idea of scale to justify the dime-a-dozen SSDs.

and (b) they'd actually learn from things that had happened ... and weren't taken completely by surprise every goddamned time (seriously ... why is it that there was only one serious attempt to make sure that the Sith really had been wiped out - and it was an unofficial program!).

Well, in their defense, we are talking about very long spans of time in many cases, where the Jedi are presumably always working on a variety of problems, so after a few generations without a resurgence it seems likely for them to grow lax. Do you really think we'd expect it if the Romans just suddenly sprang up out of nowhere to conquer the Mediterranean again?

And as for wiping them out, the prequel trilogy gave me the impression that attempting it would greatly increase the chances of the participating Jedi falling to the Darkside. And considering the semi-"current" idea of One Master-One Student and the wealth of Dark Jedi pupils that e.g. Sidious (or was it Dooku? Or both?) took on, if you don't already know exactly who the current Sith are you wouldn't know if you just killed the seat-warmers anyways.

By only one serious attempt to make sure they were actually wiped out, I meant, only one serious attempt to look for any survivors and/or relics for containment/destruction - that is, seek to prevent them from rising again. And that was after Exar Kun's defeat, and was ended shortly after/during the Mandalorian Wars preceding Revan's Sith Empire. And again, that was an unofficial, non-sanctioned program - and the Jedi doing the work of tracking down possible Sith/Sith artifacts didn't fall (though they did get lied to by one of their bosses who secretly was a Sith/Sith sympathizer). And what was it? Five, six, years after Revan, there's the events of KotOR 2 and that group of Sith. In the space of less than 50 years there were at least 3 separate Sith Empires that arose, or sought to rise and establish themselves (might possibly be 4) - Coruscant gets attacked and trashed multiple times (admittedly, one of those times involved a virus takeover of the orbiting Republic fleet.

The "Rule of Two" and the attendant secrecy is both fairly recent and moderately short-lived. It's only in effect from approximately 1000 BBY to approximately the time of Sidious's apprenticeship - at that time, it was determined that the Rule of Two had served its purpose and was to be ended in a transitional process. Caedus and Vergere (don't remember her Sith name, yeah, apparently she was one the whole time ) mostly kept to it, but mostly to the secrecy parts.
In addition ... according to other sources within the EU, the whole time, there's been (yet another) Sith Empire lurking beyond known space; and possibly multiples. It's like it's the whole "another previously secret/hidden/unmentioned Imperial task force" situation in the EU all over again, only instead of it being a "new" Imperial force that's actually been around the entire time, it's a "new" faction/group/Empire of Sith that's actually been around the whole time.

[fredgiblet]

At least when you're dealing with the Sith you can argue that they can hide reasonably well. The constant Imperial armadas have no plausible method of constructing or hiding themselves, a few hundreds dark jedi could plausibly do so.

[javcs]

At least when you're dealing with the Sith you can argue that they can hide reasonably well. The constant Imperial armadas have no plausible method of constructing or hiding themselves, a few hundreds dark jedi could plausibly do so.

When it's small groups, sure. Full-blown long-established, long-lasting Empires - each one capable of matching the Republic and everyone else in explored/known space? Not so much. Especially when there's supposedly been ... I don't even know how many anymore, but it's at least two or three, completely separate Sith Empires simultaneously existing unknown to everyone else (including each other) for millenia.


With the Imperial armadas ... IIRC most of them were either actually pretty small in numbers (Thrawn had a handful, ditto for Daala), or based on remains of Imperial infrastructure (the official Imperial Remnant, Zsinj). Also, depending on which source you look at, the Empire had multiple shipyards capable of producing multiple ImpStar Deuces in six months time, and thousands of Star Destroyers ... Mix in the paranoia and secrecy and empire-building by persons and factions within the Empire, and you get a fair amount of stuff that wouldn't be openly around. Plus ... you've got the Inner Core holding out for the Reborn Emperor for years, centered on Byss. Mix in that even after the Emperor's death (and rebirth and death again), the Empire didn't completely collapse, but parts of it started splintering off in a process that took years and never really ended ...
But, yeah, there's a limit on how much could have plausibly existed in secret for as long as it did.

[Absalom]

When you're dealing with a Galaxy, and can go anywhere in it that you want to, escaping observation or discovery even just once is enough to get you a long way. Afterwards you just need to keep hoping from one uninhabited and untraveled deep-space location to another until there's no realistic way for you to be found by someone who can identify you. If we assume that the Republic had a presence in most or all inhabited systems, and that any of the Sith Empires were openly in existence, then it poses problems, but I don't know that there's anything in the Extended Universe about that.

And given that the Rebellion managed to hide a fleet, it's obviously possible to evade notice for at least a little while if you're trying. There's probably random Jedi enclaves scattered around too, possibly from even before Palpatine. Somewhere there may even be a trace of the pre-split Jedi left.

Just a theory, but in most cases, any sizable group with potential to last and hyperspace drives should be assumed to have descendant factions floating around somewhere. The existence of hyperspace 'lanes' in at least the comics just makes this likely: find a new lane and keep it secret, and you can use it as the first step in your escape.

As for technology, please bear in mind that I haven't bought any of the books for several years. I suspect that they had actual contacts to buy stuff from, in addition to their Force abilities (remember, some of the Sith were powerful enough to meddle with the inner working of stars), but I don't know enough about the recent books to speculate on the relative technological prowess of the Republic, Empire, and assorted Sith factions.

And, of course, don't forget that the EU authors sometimes play a little loose with everything. Do any of the movies even suggest that Padme was a force user? The Extended Universe shouldn't be confused too much with the Canon Universe, or even itself...

[Arioch]

The flexible hyperdrive system in Star Wars means that combat must by consent; any force that finds itself at a disadvantage can simply flee (given a small amount of time to calculate the jump to lightspeed). This combined with the very long range of hyperspace travel and the huge scale of the galaxy makes for a system perfectly suited to asymmetrical warfare. It's very tough to defend; even with a colossally huge fleet stationed everywhere all the time, there will always be a weak spot. The rebels can strike anywhere in the galaxy without warning, and retreat to their hidden base before Imperial reinforcements can respond. FTL communication exists but apparently not FTL sensors, as the Empire was unable to find rebel bases without the help of homing beacons or probe droids. And even if a rebel force should blunder into a larger Imperial fleet, they can just withdraw if they don't like the odds. At Endor, even though "it's a trap!" and the Imperial fleet was there to "keep them from escaping," there was no suggestion of how that might be possible, and Akbar is in the process of ordering a retreat when Calrissian convinces him to change his mind; it seems pretty clear that the rebels stayed only because they chose to.

The X-Wing/TIE-Fighter games introduced an "interdictor" gravity well generator that could locally prevent an opponent from fleeing into hyperspace (which is a critical element in allowing any kind of meaningful combat tactics in such a system), but nothing like that was even hinted at in the movies.

[discord]

arioch: according to some sources it is mentioned in episode IV, although not shown, not bothered to look it up though.

but it's existence in EA is so widespread and needed, if it's not canon it's only because it has not been bothered with, afaik there were no such around during the clonewars, and were rediscovered during episode IV-VI.

but when you add in that you practically need a dedicated capital ship for it, it gets expensive fast since a interdictor is not a good fighting ship, too much mass, volume and power used for the interdictor stuff, balances out pretty well.