Hello...

[Just a Crazy-Man]

Yep still Starfleet had done the same when sending out the Constitution class in the day.

[discord]

javcs: actually ANY warp capable ship that can crank it up to warp two and cargo bays that can open would win the outsider war in a matter of weeks(after a little refitting to add weapons to the slow ass cargo ship), FTL capable inside a gravity well? game over, it's just pure win the other side just loses, period, add disregarding jumps? rear action attacks, there is no longer a 'front line' since it can strike ANYWHERE at anytime it bloody well pleases.

comparable to solar powered aircraft capable of carrying a metric ton of cargo in a medieval setting, nothing they got can even REACH it as it flies....drop firebombs on city, army, ship....game over.

<edit>
and the galaxy class IS a warship, designed around the concept of fighting, it just has strong secondary abilities that the federation insists on calling its primary mission, it's PR pure and simple. given size and capabilities it is a 'dreadnought/battleship'.
</edit>

[Just a Crazy-Man]

What about the civilians and research labs?

[Senanthes]

The Federation designation of 'Explorer' is effectively shorthand for 'ship-of-the-line'. Since Starfleet isn't a military per se, at least not in its primary focus, they attempt to use nomenclature that moves away from that... However, there are exceptions, such as the Constitution class, which was officially designated a heavy cruiser (even though it was more akin to a battleship itself in its day). In terms of its combat capabilities, a Galaxy class is a battleship, a main ship of the line boasting heavy armaments, powerful defenses, and high speed. The very definition of such a vessel. It gets even more extreme with the Sovereign class... "Enhanced Deterrence Explorer"... Pfft... Yeah, right... It had science modules stuffed in as an afterthought, and bristled with enough weapons to make just about anyone break out in a cold sweat. It's a battleship, with frills. So are its predecessors.

[Just a Crazy-Man]

Indeed.

[BlackAeronaut]

Honestly, if I wanted to do a crossover and have it not turn into a curbstomp war, I'd go with Babylon 5. The tech-base is pretty close, the numbers are closer as well, and it will be hella interesting to see the Humans, Minbari, Centauri, and the Narn all give the Loroi the hairy eyeball when they drop that line about siding with them or dying.

[Just a Crazy-Man]

Honestly, if I wanted to do a crossover and have it not turn into a curbstomp war, I'd go with Babylon 5. The tech-base is pretty close, the numbers are closer as well, and it will be hella interesting to see the Humans, Minbari, Centauri, and the Narn all give the Loroi the hairy eyeball when they drop that line about siding with them or dying.

Perhaps and Space Battleship Yamato?

[BlackAeronaut]

then it'd only be one ship... but it would be one ship capable of destroying an entire fleet in one go if they're not careful of how they comport themselves.

[javcs]

javcs: actually ANY warp capable ship that can crank it up to warp two and cargo bays that can open would win the outsider war in a matter of weeks(after a little refitting to add weapons to the slow ass cargo ship), FTL capable inside a gravity well? game over, it's just pure win the other side just loses, period, add disregarding jumps? rear action attacks, there is no longer a 'front line' since it can strike ANYWHERE at anytime it bloody well pleases.

comparable to solar powered aircraft capable of carrying a metric ton of cargo in a medieval setting, nothing they got can even REACH it as it flies....drop firebombs on city, army, ship....game over.

<edit>
and the galaxy class IS a warship, designed around the concept of fighting, it just has strong secondary abilities that the federation insists on calling its primary mission, it's PR pure and simple. given size and capabilities it is a 'dreadnought/battleship'.
</edit>

The combat systems on a Galaxy take up a significantly smaller proportion of its internal volume than its non-combat systems, ie. family quarters, science labs, diplomatic spaces, etc.

It's not a dedicated warship. If it were, it would either be significantly smaller, or significantly more powerful.

The combat systems on a Sovereign take up more volume (proportionally speaking) than on a Galaxy true, and they're individually more powerful, and there was a significant shift in Starfleet design processes towards a more combat-ready, more combat-focused fleet, especially after Borg contact. But the non-combat 'frills', so to speak, weren't a design afterthought.




But ... that being said ... the point remains (that we can all agree on, no matter our takes on Starfleet's design paradigms - and the hypocrisies and idiocies thereof) that any current-generation major starship from Star Trek just outclasses everything in the Outsiderverse by a truly absurd degree.

[Just a Crazy-Man]

javcs: actually ANY warp capable ship that can crank it up to warp two and cargo bays that can open would win the outsider war in a matter of weeks(after a little refitting to add weapons to the slow ass cargo ship), FTL capable inside a gravity well? game over, it's just pure win the other side just loses, period, add disregarding jumps? rear action attacks, there is no longer a 'front line' since it can strike ANYWHERE at anytime it bloody well pleases.

comparable to solar powered aircraft capable of carrying a metric ton of cargo in a medieval setting, nothing they got can even REACH it as it flies....drop firebombs on city, army, ship....game over.

<edit>
and the galaxy class IS a warship, designed around the concept of fighting, it just has strong secondary abilities that the federation insists on calling its primary mission, it's PR pure and simple. given size and capabilities it is a 'dreadnought/battleship'.
</edit>

The combat systems on a Galaxy take up a significantly smaller proportion of its internal volume than its non-combat systems, ie. family quarters, science labs, diplomatic spaces, etc.

It's not a dedicated warship. If it were, it would either be significantly smaller, or significantly more powerful.

The combat systems on a Sovereign take up more volume (proportionally speaking) than on a Galaxy true, and they're individually more powerful, and there was a significant shift in Starfleet design processes towards a more combat-ready, more combat-focused fleet, especially after Borg contact. But the non-combat 'frills', so to speak, weren't a design afterthought.




But ... that being said ... the point remains (that we can all agree on, no matter our takes on Starfleet's design paradigms - and the hypocrisies and idiocies thereof) that any current-generation major starship from Star Trek just outclasses everything in the Outsiderverse by a truly absurd degree.

Well what about a bugger ship flying into the nacelle of a Discovery when she accelerated into the path as she jump to warp.

[BlackAeronaut]

Well what about a bugger ship flying into the nacelle of a Discovery when she accelerated into the path as she jump to warp.

Warp jump aborted, M/AMR does the equivalent of a SCRAM, Discovery's down a nacelle (but they can still limp around with one if my understanding of ST tech is correct), and the entire crew is freakin' pissed. Whoever sent that suicide ship in had better be packing some serious heat or else have already made themselves right with their creator.

[Just a Crazy-Man]

Well what about a bugger ship flying into the nacelle of a Discovery when she accelerated into the path as she jump to warp.

Warp jump aborted, M/AMR does the equivalent of a SCRAM, Discovery's down a nacelle (but they can still limp around with one if my understanding of ST tech is correct), and the entire crew is freakin' pissed. Whoever sent that suicide ship in had better be packing some serious heat or else have already made themselves right with their creator.

Yep...ether way fighting retreat at best impulse speed likely half since their likely damage to the nacelle pylon with a spread of torpedoes with fields of phaser fire.

[BlackAeronaut]

Well what about a bugger ship flying into the nacelle of a Discovery when she accelerated into the path as she jump to warp.

Warp jump aborted, M/AMR does the equivalent of a SCRAM, Discovery's down a nacelle (but they can still limp around with one if my understanding of ST tech is correct), and the entire crew is freakin' pissed. Whoever sent that suicide ship in had better be packing some serious heat or else have already made themselves right with their creator.

Yep...ether way fighting retreat at best impulse speed likely half since their likely damage to the nacelle pylon with a spread of torpedoes with fields of phaser fire.

Oh no. A federation ship would still retain a good deal of combat capability even after losing main power. And after they get a chance to patch things up, they can still go to warp on one nacelle. It just wouldn't be very fast in relation to their normal cruising speed.

[Just a Crazy-Man]

Indeed it's just I worry about other weapons the buggers have and the fact is...I heard the main weapons on certain ships pack a punch. The buggers are likely to target the impulse engines and attack them with everything they got and those plasma beams even if not Loroi grade or Historian pack quite a punch and a few hundred hits in one spot at the same time.

[BlackAeronaut]

Indeed it's just I worry about other weapons the buggers have and the fact is...I heard the main weapons on certain ships pack a punch. The buggers are likely to target the impulse engines and attack them with everything they got and those plasma beams even if not Loroi grade or Historian pack quite a punch and a few hundred hits in one spot at the same time.

Your forgetting about shields. Unless Umiak beam weapons are in the high-gigawatt range, then the Discovery will be just fine.

[discord]

guys, ST ships can fight while doing warp speeds if the ST ship just does a warp skip every few seconds it would be impossible to target it, and the sub light 'impulse drive' can crank out so much acceleration it's just silly....bottom line, ST ships have such an absurd speed advantage it's like having a competition between a horse and a top-end sports car....armored and armed like a abrams but still just as fast...it just ain't fair to the horse, it cant win.

[BlackAeronaut]

Kinda the point I'm trying to make here. Just the Discovery by herself is such a curbstomp. She'd probably win the entire war inside a week, single handedly.

O_O; "And she never even stopped once to refuel."
O_O; "Mmm-Hmm."

[Senanthes]

Honestly, the entire thing is like comparing apples to... Well, hand grenades. The former gets turned into chunky moosh by the latter. The fastest ships in the Outsider universe pull what?... Roughly 30-35G's? Even the slower ships of Star Trek canon can pull hundreds of G's of sublight acceleration. They can fight while at superluminal speeds (a feat impossible, as far as we know, in Outsider), and as a side effect, can outrun any and all missile weapons present... And not to mention... They dont even need their main shield systems to be utterly immune to a number of primary weapons available here in Outsider. Mass drivers, and lasers would be efficiently absorbed by the navigational deflector alone... And again, missiles simply could not catch it. Not making this up, its come up in a few episodes of TNG, with statements made to the effect of 'pure EM' weapons being unable to penetrate the deflector (check out memory-alpha.org, or search for a bit if you dont trust that source, you'll find it.). Then, assuming that the particle beams and plasma could hit it (and are not simply brushed off by the cattle guard, so to speak...), it would be a toss up as to weather or not they would even be able to affect the primary shields (admittedly, the Star Trek definition of directed energy weapons gets... Ambiguous, at times, ranging from phasers to charged projectiles...)

Supposedly, this is why phasers, disruptors and photon torpedoes are the weapons of choice. They actually do something. Taking what is canon as 'fact', however little might be behind it scientifically, setting up a Trek ship in an Outsider setting is hillariously one sided... Any decent mid-sized class of the M/AM (Matter/Anti-Matter) era would make short work of literally any number of vessels sent against it. by dint of vastly superior capabilities. Unless your intent is to have said ship be an unstoppable juggernaut, its a bit... Just a tad, overpowered. Babylon 5 isn't a bad idea for a tech base... Perhaps looking over Sword of the Stars would give you some thoughts as to a viable basis as well.

[Just a Crazy-Man]

Your right.

Not a fair fight if Starfleet was willing to enter the war but it's not.

XXX

What about Wing Commander?

[Suederwind]

What about Wing Commander?

On the one side, the Wing Commander Universe is closer to the Outsider Universe in technology:
There are Jump-points which are basically gravity wells connecting different starsystems and also different jumppoints in one system. So no Warpdrive as in Star Trek is needed or used.

But on the other side, the techlevel in Wing Commander seems higher:
Plasma Weapons mounted on fighters, anitmatterguns on the capital ships, all fighters have shields, the Behemoth (!), working cloaking devices, etc...
And these shield and armor specs I found for the WC ships seem very high to me, but I don´t know how they compare to the Loroi/Umiak stats in the Insider.