Weapons tangent thread

[discord]

well, as a martial artist i'd take a cricket bat over a baseball bat if i want to bash someones head in....given the choice.

why? smaller cross section at the business end makes for deeper impact cratering, lighter weapon means more velocity and faster 'refire' rate, higher velocity+smaller cross section=more damage, more damage+more strikes per minute=much more DPS.

[Smithy]

well, as a martial artist i'd take a cricket bat over a baseball bat if i want to bash someones head in....given the choice.

why? smaller cross section at the business end makes for deeper impact cratering, lighter weapon means more velocity and faster 're-fire' rate, higher velocity+smaller cross section=more damage, more damage+more strikes per minute=much more DPS.

I'm not entirely following you there fella. From what little I know about baseball equipment, and the helping hand of Wikipedia. My own bat is 5cm under a metre long, baseball bats are just over a metre. So your missing out on potential Newton Metres there. Baseball bats apparently can't extend beyond 2 and 3/4 inch. My bat is at its blade limit of 4 1/4 inches and also has a 60 cm long blade so surface area's got to go to the cricket bat.... True my edges are about an inch wide, but good luck hitting people with those, they're not designed for it and well it will split the bat. That and apparently baseball bats tend to be just under a kg, my bats just over a kg and it's a lightweight and they go up to about 1.4 kg.

[javcs]

well, as a martial artist i'd take a cricket bat over a baseball bat if i want to bash someones head in....given the choice.

why? smaller cross section at the business end makes for deeper impact cratering, lighter weapon means more velocity and faster 'refire' rate, higher velocity+smaller cross section=more damage, more damage+more strikes per minute=much more DPS.

Dude ... with a cricket bat, your hitting surface is the wider, flatter portion that runs a fair chunk of the length of the bat. I'll take the baseball bat - the mass is much more concentrated towards the hitting surface end in a baseball bat.

As a weapon, the baseball bat has superior qualities - especially if, as Smithy says, impacts on the edges of the cricket blade are liable to split it - baseball bats, when made of wood, generally don't split much.

[fredgiblet]

Also they make baseball bats in aluminum.

[Mr Bojangles]

Also they make baseball bats in aluminum.

And titanium!

[discord]

javcs: that concentration of weight is one of the major reasons i DON'T want the baseball bat, it's a bloody hell to control as a weapon, sure lots of damage potential, but control and speed(swings per minute, precision, and defensive ability/agility) not so much.


smithy: first off, HUGE difference between hitting hard targets like concrete/asphalt and soft tissue like humans...not to mention that humans move, ground and buildings generally do not.

second, the shorter range is one of the reasons i would go with a cricket bat, another is better balance(very important in a weapon) since i know very well that baseball bats are insanely top heavy, that gives you a heavy swing but it also makes it that much harder to use, for instance if i had to use a baseball bat i'd be holding it as far towards the heavy end as possible, removing any advantage in length to improve speed as much as possible, still not all that good, but it would work.

weight is not really a problem, balance is. example, if you were strong enough a EXCELLENT weapon would be a weight lifting barbell(lightest version would probably be the best at about 10kg), lets just say that a metal quarter staff would wreck someones day....IF you were strong enough to use it, actually the 'smallest' ones in titanium would drop it to about 6kg....that would be quite usable, due to good balance.

however if splitting is such a issue with cricket bats and hitting on the edge i might prefer metal baseball bat....the choice was between cricket bat and baseball bat after all, not any of the gazillion other choices out there.

[Dragoon]

wow I didnt realize sports equipment was so effective...guess I can get rid of My colt 1911 now....

[discord]

dragoon: would not do that, the 1911 is quite possibly the best handgun design ever, and it does have a rather significant range advantage over most sports equipment.

i hereby claim the weaponry discussion should be moved to a separate thread by someone with the authority to do so.

[javcs]

A baseball bat isn't that hard to handle, nor it is that poorly balanced. I mean, sure, there are better options for improvised weapons, but a cricket bat isn't really one of them, IMO.
A baseball bat is a club or mace, essentially. Precision is quite possible, though admittedly, more difficult than with something like a knife.

Wait ... are you proposing using the cricket bat more like a bladed weapon than a bludgeoning weapon?



I would keep the 1911. In terms of either intimidation factor or stopping power, there is no contest, it's the 1911 all the way over the sports equipment. Also, if you actually need to use one, you want an actual weapon over an improvised one any day.

[Dragoon]

well to get rid of it I'd have t get it out from under the pillow of my very lovely, and not at all psychotic girlfriend....I did mention she is stable sane and would never hurt me for posting something negative about her....

I'm a big fan of Colt firearms...Might explain my Handle come to think of it

[fredgiblet]

i hereby claim the weaponry discussion should be moved to a separate thread by someone with the authority to do so.

Agreed and done

[Dragoon]

wow great response time around here....think I could get the mods to come work for my EMS service....

One advantage of a club, stick, or other improvised item...they never run out of ammo, you can walk around with a cane or walking stick and no one calls the cops. Not to mention the look on someones face when you whack them with a cricket bat would be worth the extra effort.

[Trantor]

Heh. Funny the differences.
In germany a bat is considered a lethal weapon and illegal to carry around, but an axe is considered a tool. So in my cars i carry short axes.

And for firearms, i´m not a gun nut (though a pretty good marksman, #4 overall in the annual nation-wide "Stegskopfschiessen" in 1989, only draftee in the top200, best draftee ever, and only topped by special forces), but a buddy is, so i had the opportunity to fire a huge selection. I prefer short pistols like the HK USP compact or the HK P2000, since they´re better balanced. A 1911 is a good simple design, but too heavy on the front and not very precise, even by pistol-standards.

[Suederwind]

In germany a bat is considered a lethal weapon and illegal to carry around, but an axe is considered a tool. So in my cars i carry short axes.

And you are aware that you can legally own and carry around a crossbow (and bolts) here in germany?
Sometimes those laws really make no sense to me.

[Michael]

javcs: that concentration of weight is one of the major reasons i DON'T want the baseball bat, it's a bloody hell to control as a weapon, sure lots of damage potential, but control and speed(swings per minute, precision, and defensive ability/agility) not so much.


smithy: first off, HUGE difference between hitting hard targets like concrete/asphalt and soft tissue like humans...not to mention that humans move, ground and buildings generally do not.

second, the shorter range is one of the reasons i would go with a cricket bat, another is better balance(very important in a weapon) since i know very well that baseball bats are insanely top heavy, that gives you a heavy swing but it also makes it that much harder to use, for instance if i had to use a baseball bat i'd be holding it as far towards the heavy end as possible, removing any advantage in length to improve speed as much as possible, still not all that good, but it would work.

weight is not really a problem, balance is. example, if you were strong enough a EXCELLENT weapon would be a weight lifting barbell(lightest version would probably be the best at about 10kg), lets just say that a metal quarter staff would wreck someones day....IF you were strong enough to use it, actually the 'smallest' ones in titanium would drop it to about 6kg....that would be quite usable, due to good balance.

however if splitting is such a issue with cricket bats and hitting on the edge i might prefer metal baseball bat....the choice was between cricket bat and baseball bat after all, not any of the gazillion other choices out there.

Not to forget, cricket bats have very long handles, allowing you to space you hands out and 'push/pull' the bat, like with a katana or samurai sword (I forget which) Of course there is the down side that a return swing, going in the opposite diction, will be harder to make if you miss the first time

[Trantor]

In germany a bat is considered a lethal weapon and illegal to carry around, but an axe is considered a tool. So in my cars i carry short axes.

And you are aware that you can legally own and carry around a crossbow (and bolts) here in germany?

Sure. But i consider them too bulky.

Sometimes those laws really make no sense to me.

That´s why they´re called "laws" and not "sense".

Same with slingshots: Allowed, but only without wrist support. Nuts.

[Dragoon]

<quote>Not to forget, cricket bats have very long handles, allowing you to space you hands out and 'push/pull' the bat, like with a katana or samurai sword (I forget which) Of course there is the down side that a return swing, going in the opposite diction, will be harder to make if you miss the first time</quote>

Now factor in the Psychological impact of the weapons. You get a good bit of "OH CRAP" out of a baseball bat headed toward the face from most people...Now with a cricket bat You Amplify the "OH Crap" with a strong Injection of "WTF!!???"

My personal preference in firearms tends to favor a revolver of a Semi Automatic. when i have to carry one .. worked as an armed guard for several years. (oddly at the time they would let me carry a .357 but not a semi auto 9mm) that and a nice stout stick of wood/baton....

There are more accurate pistols for sure, and pistols that are easier on the wrist and ears. But the look, intimidation factor, and higher impact of a .45 ACP round definitely makes me smile.
Part of my fondness of the 1911 is that it was the gun my father taught me to shoot pistols with.

[Smithy]

first off, HUGE difference between hitting hard targets like concrete/asphalt and soft tissue like humans...not to mention that humans move, ground and buildings generally do not.

Not sure I mentioned it, but perhaps I Should of. Cricket Bats arn't designed to hit overly hard things. English Willow (or any other willow) is relatively soft material, and is designed to hit a ball of cork covered in leather. There was a guy a few years back now, who chased a burglar with his cricket bat, and promptly broke the thing over the guys head. The would-be-thief had severe brain damage, but as I mentioned the bat broke. I've been using Cricket bats the vast majority of my life, and while I agree it can do some pretty nasty things to people it's simply not suited to it.

You were mentioning Balance, cricket bats have a sweat spot a "middle". Ie they're weighted heavily towards the bottom, and designed to facilitate a clean vertical straight back lift. I would use a baseball bat, but actually if I were going to stick to Sports equipment. I would take a Hockey stick. Light, balanced, strong carbon fiber, designed to hit very hard objects, long reach and which helps Field hockey maintain one of the highest injury rates in sport!

[Michael]

<quote>Not to forget, cricket bats have very long handles, allowing you to space you hands out and 'push/pull' the bat, like with a katana or samurai sword (I forget which) Of course there is the down side that a return swing, going in the opposite diction, will be harder to make if you miss the first time</quote>

Now factor in the Psychological impact of the weapons. You get a good bit of "OH CRAP" out of a baseball bat headed toward the face from most people...Now with a cricket bat You Amplify the "OH Crap" with a strong Injection of "WTF!!???"

My personal preference in firearms tends to favor a revolver of a Semi Automatic. when i have to carry one .. worked as an armed guard for several years. (oddly at the time they would let me carry a .357 but not a semi auto 9mm) that and a nice stout stick of wood/baton....

There are more accurate pistols for sure, and pistols that are easier on the wrist and ears. But the look, intimidation factor, and higher impact of a .45 ACP round definitely makes me smile.
Part of my fondness of the 1911 is that it was the gun my father taught me to shoot pistols with.

Yeah...But if I have a cricket ball with my cricket bat, the police won't arrest me for carrying a dangerous weapon, where as with a Colt .45.....

first off, HUGE difference between hitting hard targets like concrete/asphalt and soft tissue like humans...not to mention that humans move, ground and buildings generally do not.

Not sure I mentioned it, but perhaps I Should of. Cricket Bats arn't designed to hit overly hard things. English Willow (or any other willow) is relatively soft material, and is designed to hit a ball of cork covered in leather. There was a guy a few years back now, who chased a burglar with his cricket bat, and promptly broke the thing over the guys head. The would-be-thief had severe brain damage, but as I mentioned the bat broke. I've been using Cricket bats the vast majority of my life, and while I agree it can do some pretty nasty things to people it's simply not suited to it.

Point, but I'll do more damage with the cricket bat than without, regardless of how easy it breaks

[discord]

well it was the break factor i was worried about, so cricket bat is a nono.

hockey stick is a pretty good choice.

but on the subject of sport tools that are dangerous i'll say cowboy action shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_action_shooting which also seems like a lot of fun.