Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

I feel kind of silly for arguing this, cause Star Trek has been -especially in its later years- equally silly in terms of its use of science. But when it came to making iconic looking space ships, they did give the designs some thought at one point in time.

In Star Trek, every Starship has some form of SIF, from civilian transport ships and immobile space stations, to high performance warships like the Defiant which needed an extensively modified SIF to keep from tearing itself apart at full power. They work redundantly with the Inertial Dampener, but also protect against weapons and spatial anomalies, which are apparently everywhere in the Trek verse. In the Honorverse, the ships accelerate up to around 800 Gs (So they're in the same ballpark as far as size), but even they had some redundant systems. Without their ID, artificial gravity could reduce felt acceleration by about 50 Gs, but that is still going to be immensely outclassed in combat. Are they flawed designs because they can't operate at full capacity in the event of a system failure?

((Without inertial dampeners, or artificial gravity, Honorverse ships can't accelerate at much more than 9.8 m/s^2, which is not significantly different from the Enterprise's 7.4 m/s^2, both in the case of double system failures.))

Some of the ships in Outsider feature engines-on-pylons construction, and honestly, I'm ok with that. Arioch did his homework, but as much as I enjoy reading the Insider, that sort of thing can safely be left out of the story itself. Doing the work is no substitution for a good story, but it can help on the side.

---

And since this is the Loroi question and answer thread, I'm going to ask a question. What kind of data storage devices to the Loroi use?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

icekatze wrote:And since this is the Loroi question and answer thread, I'm going to ask a question. What kind of data storage devices to the Loroi use?
We discussed this a bit earlier in the thread.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Dang, so much for changing the topic. I knew there was more to that feeling of deja vu I was getting... Oh well, nevermind. :lol:

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Siber »

Hm. All the linked pages of late made me notice something about Tempo. Her lips are much bluer than the other Loroi, especially in comparison to the rest of her face. Is lipstick in the Loroi spy's bag of tricks, or is this just a quirk of character design?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Razor One »

I'm guessing it stands out more because her skin tone seems to be a bit paler.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Siber »

Perhaps, but Beryl has a pretty similar skin tone. I went looking for a good comparison in the same lighting conditions, and ended up on page 64.

Image

Skin tone swatches. On the right, Beryl, on the left, Temp, and inset, the color of the unshaded portions of their lower lips. You'll note that Beryl's is indistinguishable, and this seems to hold true for most characters depending on lighting. Tempo's lips on the other hand, are a pretty dramatically different shade of blue.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Those color swatches could sure use some labels, especially if two adjacent swatches are supposed to be indistinguishable. :lol:

Tempo does have darker colored lips, but she's not the only one. Nova (captain of the Winter Tide), Ashrain, and Moonglow all also have a similar feature.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Siber »

Image

Does that help? :D
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Logannion »

Was reading through the Insider archive of Arioch answers. Though this might be pertinent.

"Some of the characters have bluer lips to exaggerate their feminine characteristics (Tempo's being the bluest). Whether this is the natural result of her hot blood and pale skin, or some sort of makeup, is best left to the imagination."
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by novius »

Which actually begs the question... would Loroi women actually 'dress up', as in, enhance their feminine characteristics?

Even if someone would say 'there's no reason to', it would be about the same principle as with the (human) wife of a blind husband still spending her time to beauty up in front of a mirror. So, yes, I think the question still has some merit.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by dragoongfa »

I think that Loroi femininity is akin to our masculinity. Young Loroi females don't play with dolls but with knives and guns.

Them toning up feminine traits is like how men tone up their masculine traits to seem more dangerous.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

The only problem is that the terms "masculine," and "feminine," are completely subjective. Even within a single culture, you will have disagreements over what qualifies as one or the other.

We can clearly see that Loroi like styling their hair, but I always figured that was an expression on their individuality, and because long hair is an indicator of success.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Siber »

In searching back before posting the initial question, I found this passage
Arioch wrote:
wasp609 wrote:First do loroi wear make up.
There have been times and places in which it has been considered fashionable for certain segments of the population to wear makeup. In archaic times, some tribal cultures donned warpaint or body paint; some throwback cultures continue this to the present day, and some individuals still bear markings reminiscent of such practices (like Talon & Spiral's face markings). In the classical period, some sub-cultures wore heavy makeup (this would be analogous to the practice in feudal Japan for members of the court, both male and female, to wear white makeup and blacken their teeth). In more modern times, some individuals wore cosmetics to satisfy their own vanity. In the present day, wearing makeup is not in style, at least not among the warrior class.
wasp609 wrote:Second if not how would they react to humans femles wearing makeup.
I don't think they would find it surprising, though they might consider it effete. I think they would be more surprised by skirts and high-heeled shoes.

Which addresses the general but not the specific(and also made me look up the exact definition of effete, which varied a little from my assumptions). Logannion's find in the archives probably addresses it as directly as we're going to get, so thanks for turning that one up.

In general the Loroi visual aesthetic of femininity from what we've seen seems to line up fairly well with our culture's, albeit hue shifted, and they don't seem to have any strong pressure against vanity either, so I suppose some cosmetics here and there might not be particularly shocking, but by Arioch's statements definitely wouldn't be the norm.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Honest question: when you say "our culture," which culture are you referring to specifically? Eastern US atheistic liberal? West Coast Canadian hipster? North Brazil inner city? Meiji era upper class Japan?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by discord »

the gender roles in Loroi society is pretty much flipped from human norm,

who is expendable/needs protection, flipped.
who attracts the other in the sexual game and how?, pretty much flipped.
(and for the feminists.) who is property...no not really, it comes with needs to be protected, not that most feminazis would want to think about that.

and those are really the only real gender roles you have, the rest are mostly just interpretations of those.

ice: beauty ideals for females are pretty similar around the globe actually, young, healthy, fertile.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

novius wrote:Which actually begs the question... would Loroi women actually 'dress up', as in, enhance their feminine characteristics? Even if someone would say 'there's no reason to', it would be about the same principle as with the (human) wife of a blind husband still spending her time to beauty up in front of a mirror. So, yes, I think the question still has some merit.
I find that most human women primp and preen primarily to flatter their own vanity, and to impress other women, rather than to impress men. The Loroi certainly have their own kind of vanity. Vanity among warriors is actually quite common in Earth's warrior societies, especially those which are not always at war and have lots of free time on their hands -- the male warrior class were often preoccupied with their looks in the Greek city-states (Sparta in particular), late Shogunate Japan, most of Renaissance Europe, and some tribal societies like the Maasai.

Cosmetics for a female Loroi in the modern warrior culture would be analogous to cosmetics for a male in today's Western culture; men can and do wear makeup, especially those in public positions like actors and politicians, but the effect of the makeup is usually to mask imperfections and subtly improve one's appearance without being obvious. A man who was obviously wearing lipstick or eye shadow would be considered outside the norm.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Siber »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

Honest question: when you say "our culture," which culture are you referring to specifically? Eastern US atheistic liberal? West Coast Canadian hipster? North Brazil inner city? Meiji era upper class Japan?
A fair question. I can't really draw clear lines, but 'western' is probably the general label that best fits? Whatever culture you'd say produced the comic, I suppose.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

There really isn't a "human norm," of gender roles. In some rather large eastern cultures, like parts of India, women are the archetypal aggressive sex when it comes to courtship. There have been cultures throughout history where women are essentially expendable, take a look around northern africa and southwest asia. And while we're on the subject of Feminists, it is worth pointing out that Feminism in America grew out of the abolitionist movement, at a time when an entire race -men and women alike- were considered property.

Humans have some general preferences when it comes to beauty: Familiarity, symmetry, healthy, and two of those are subjective. Ideals, however, are much more specific things.

From Ohaguro, to Neck Rings and Foot Binding; and between Rubenesque and Ultra-thin supermodels, there are wide variations on what is considered "ideal," between people inside cultures, and across cultures. (And that's not even counting people who find things that exist outside of reality, like anthropomorphics, to be attractive.)

I'm not sure if there is an Earth culture that really matches up with Loroi standards, except maybe anime hairstyles. I'm ok with this. ;)

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by novius »

Apart from hairstyle, complexion and shape of face there doesn't seem to be much variation in Loroi outlooks. They seem to have roughly about the same height and build.

One could argue that their armed forces have strict requirements on size, weight and fitness (likely) or that they just have little genetic variation as it could be with species that have been genetically tampered with. Which leaves little a woman could work with to set herself apart.

So... we've already established the length of hair to be a mark a Loroi female may use as an outward sign of her accomplishments. So I wouldn't be surprised to see more outlandish hairstyles and coloring. After all, Still-Storm herself already has neon blue hair. And judging from her attitude, she'd be about as 'mainstream' to their culture as one could get.

But... why would Still-Storm wear her hair that short, then? Purely practical considerations?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

If I recall correctly, there is actually a significant reason why Stillstorm has such short hair, in spite of being -quite likely- the most senior officer in the strike group, and it has something to do with her participation in the Semoset offensive.

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