Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Arioch]

I doubt that the chief engineer of a Loroi warship knows the full details of the established battle plans of any engagement, so her just making sure that the damaged ship doesn't get in the way as it limps away is the best possible course of action she can be expected to take.

I don't see that being a major problem when every ship in the fleet has real-time communication with the squadron or fleet commander.

[dragoongfa]

From my experience after a certain command threshold micromanaging the actions of a single unit draws attention away from the bigger picture.

[Arioch]

From my experience after a certain command threshold micromanaging the actions of a single unit draws attention away from the bigger picture.

There's a hierarchy of command in the fleet just as there is within a ship; a fleet commander doesn't have to micromanage individual ships any more than an army general has to issue movement orders to each individual soldier. In most fleet actions, the majority of ships will be maintaining formation on a lead vessel (usually the squadron flagship); the captains of escort ships usually have very clear instructions that come from the next higher level of command. There will rarely be anything secret about a ship's current instructions, and if there is, a quick answer can be got from that ship's immediate superior (usually the squadron flag).

[JQBogus]

... even if the ship had lost control, there's nothing that should have made it suddenly veer to one side and drop out of the sky. It's just bad Hollywood writing.

I figure it must have been the helmsman getting his arms tangled in the ship's wheel as he fell over dead.

I mean, come on, this is a universe where they have manned, deck mounted laser cannons firing through holes cut in the side of the ship:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/SB-920_l ... nonDSI.png

[icekatze]

hi hi

It is one of those things about heroic naval stories where brave and clever captains overcome impossible odds, but in terms of an engagement between fleets, I would expect many ship captains would be acting as a cog in the formation, without nearly as much freedom to act on their own as their Hollywood counterparts might have.

Which isn't to say that a competent commander isn't important, but the Loroi 51st strike group looks like they have at least three or four capable commanders ready to step up in the event that the fleet commander is killed or otherwise incapacitated.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Yes, of course, there are multiple locations from which a ship can be controlled if necessary. The consoles are just computer terminals; if you have the right security access, almost any of them can be configured to run whatever function you need, or switch from "live" data to simulated data. Both of these features would be a requirement for any functioning warship; flexibility and redundancy are vital to survive a fight, because things are going to go wrong.

I'd imagine that it would be highly suboptimal to be operating the ship from a location that wasn't designed for it, though - if nothing else, the consoles wouldn't be set up in a way as conductive to live operations. I mean, unless they had a designated simulator bridge, but you said they don't.

Actually, come to think of it, isn't a lot of Loroi training done on-the-job anyway? So they'd probably have a classroom of some sort on the ship? Or would they use some kind of multipurpose meeting room/briefing room/auditorium for that?

Aside from the absurdity of such a large vessel having no auxiliary control (and the bridge being placed in such a vulnerable position), even if the ship had lost control, there's nothing that should have made it suddenly veer to one side and drop out of the sky. It's just bad Hollywood writing.

Eeeeeeh, let's not be TOO hasty to call bad writing there. I mean, it COULD be, but I could see it being perfectly plausible, too:
Executor was operating very near to the surface of the Death Star II, which is so massive it has its own gravitational field. As such, the pilot was probably having to actively correct for this. Now, the pilot probably looked up in time to see the A-Wing coming, and quite naturally attempted to save his own life; veering hard towards the DSII, where its gravitational field would be pulling him, might just pull Executor far enough off-course to make the A-Wing impact to the side of the main bridge, thus saving the lives of the entire bridge crew, including himself. Unfortunately for him, the A-Wing's pilot was bound and determined to make his kamikaze run, and adjusted accordingly.

So now you have the ship, uncontrolled, very near to the surface of the DS2, veering hard towards it. The backup command staff don't have much time to correct things. If it takes them any appreciable amount of time at all to establish control, even just like, twenty seconds to put in their command codes and seize control of the vessel, they won't get control back in time to save the ship.

But the screenwriters didn't show us that.

[Mr Bojangles]

Eeeeeeh, let's not be TOO hasty to call bad writing there. I mean, it COULD be, but I could see it being perfectly plausible, too:
Executor was operating very near to the surface of the Death Star II, which is so massive it has its own gravitational field. As such, the pilot was probably having to actively correct for this. Now, the pilot probably looked up in time to see the A-Wing coming, and quite naturally attempted to save his own life; veering hard towards the DSII, where its gravitational field would be pulling him, might just pull Executor far enough off-course to make the A-Wing impact to the side of the main bridge, thus saving the lives of the entire bridge crew, including himself. Unfortunately for him, the A-Wing's pilot was bound and determined to make his kamikaze run, and adjusted accordingly.

So now you have the ship, uncontrolled, very near to the surface of the DS2, veering hard towards it. The backup command staff don't have much time to correct things. If it takes them any appreciable amount of time at all to establish control, even just like, twenty seconds to put in their command codes and seize control of the vessel, they won't get control back in time to save the ship.

But the screenwriters didn't show us that.

But, the DS2, while huge, would probably have a gravitational mass similar to that of Ceres. The strength of its gravitational field should be negligible. Of course, the DS2 looks to have Earth-normal gravity internally and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that field extends beyond the hull. On the other hand, the Executor didn't appear to be in orbit, so it could've been holding station via repulsors and taking out the bridge really should not have stopped those working.

I'm pretty sure we can go down a pretty deep rabbit hole with this (in fact, I know we can )... So, not bad writing. Let's chalk it up to "drama" and the general tendency of Star Wars to completely ignore inconvenient things like physics.

[Sweforce]

But, the DS2, while huge, would probably have a gravitational mass similar to that of Ceres. The strength of its gravitational field should be negligible. Of course, the DS2 looks to have Earth-normal gravity internally and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that field extends beyond the hull. On the other hand, the Executor didn't appear to be in orbit, so it could've been holding station via repulsors and taking out the bridge really should not have stopped those working.

I'm pretty sure we can go down a pretty deep rabbit hole with this (in fact, I know we can )... So, not bad writing. Let's chalk it up to "drama" and the general tendency of Star Wars to completely ignore inconvenient things like physics.

A fan writer could of course have the crew on the auxiliary bridge be rebel sympathisers that have infiltrated that station and they actively kamikazed the whole ship when they gained control.

[Absalom]

So the loroi are doing what the humans are doing of economical reasons. Sometimes running a scenario could be dangerous if something real should happen. Do the Tempest and/or other capital ships have auxiliary bridges reade to take over in case of an emergency? If so thease can be used for training in the field and naturally save the ship if the main bridge get taken out. Star Wars "The return of the Jedi" shows us a Super Star Destroyer taken out by a fighter crashing into the bridge. Perhaps they didn't have an auxiliary bridge or it just didn't have time to take over. Still it is nice to have backup systems. There are references in Star Trek that the entire ship can be operated from engineering.

That vulnerability was a little odd, yes. Really, there should have been a "oversight bridge" operated from the most secure security facility (you have to go past the marines to get to it), overseeing which of several "operational bridges" were actually granted operational authorization: goodness knows that even most of the prequel ships were big enough for that.

The exposed bridges aren't completely nonsensical, but really they should be pilot stations, used by pilots while operating in confined docking facilities, not primary command structures.

With networking options I could see the Tempest being run from the cockpit of the Highland Shuttle so an auxiliary bridge could be run from another ship even.

Hopefully such a thing would only be used in drydock & similar situations, and would require a cable connection (even if just between two jacks preinstalled in the same access panel) to actually be possible.

[Absalom]

Eeeeeeh, let's not be TOO hasty to call bad writing there. I mean, it COULD be, but I could see it being perfectly plausible, too:
Executor was operating very near to the surface of the Death Star II, which is so massive it has its own gravitational field. As such, the pilot was probably having to actively correct for this. Now, the pilot probably looked up in time to see the A-Wing coming, and quite naturally attempted to save his own life; veering hard towards the DSII, where its gravitational field would be pulling him, might just pull Executor far enough off-course to make the A-Wing impact to the side of the main bridge, thus saving the lives of the entire bridge crew, including himself. Unfortunately for him, the A-Wing's pilot was bound and determined to make his kamikaze run, and adjusted accordingly.

So now you have the ship, uncontrolled, very near to the surface of the DS2, veering hard towards it. The backup command staff don't have much time to correct things. If it takes them any appreciable amount of time at all to establish control, even just like, twenty seconds to put in their command codes and seize control of the vessel, they won't get control back in time to save the ship.

But the screenwriters didn't show us that.

But, the DS2, while huge, would probably have a gravitational mass similar to that of Ceres. The strength of its gravitational field should be negligible. Of course, the DS2 looks to have Earth-normal gravity internally and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that field extends beyond the hull. On the other hand, the Executor didn't appear to be in orbit, so it could've been holding station via repulsors and taking out the bridge really should not have stopped those working.

Probably they were using repulsors or the equivalent, but that doesn't counter his point. Whether maneuvering by adjusting repulsors or engines, if you adjust your net thrust vector instead of adjusting relative positions in a PID or similar loop (and the vector is probably faster...) then you crash into the DS2 regardless because that's what your instructions to the computer say to do.

I think, though, that engine thrust is the more likely possibility. I don't know if the impact speed of the Executor has been worked out, but if I recall correctly it should have been pretty high, very possibly higher than Earth-like gravity could have produced, so my money's on active maneuvering.

I'm pretty sure we can go down a pretty deep rabbit hole with this (in fact, I know we can )... So, not bad writing. Let's chalk it up to "drama" and the general tendency of Star Wars to completely ignore inconvenient things like physics.

Physics? Star Wars has physics?

[Krulle]

Sure, the gravity pulling the elements "down" when filming the explosion....

[Mr Bojangles]

Probably they were using repulsors or the equivalent, but that doesn't counter his point. Whether maneuvering by adjusting repulsors or engines, if you adjust your net thrust vector instead of adjusting relative positions in a PID or similar loop (and the vector is probably faster...) then you crash into the DS2 regardless because that's what your instructions to the computer say to do.

I think, though, that engine thrust is the more likely possibility. I don't know if the impact speed of the Executor has been worked out, but if I recall correctly it should have been pretty high, very possibly higher than Earth-like gravity could have produced, so my money's on active maneuvering.

You could be right; your explanation is plausible. Or, we might not even be wrong; it is Star Wars, after all. Down the rabbit hole we go!

Physics? Star Wars has physics?

For certain values of "physics"?

[ShadowDragon8685]

Arioch, strange question:



Do you happen to have a story for this lady? For some reason, I can't shake the feeling that just offscreen, on the other side of the "camera," is the Maian equivalent of a pickup truck with someone close to Ms. Fieldstrider in the back, wielding the camera.

[Arioch]

Arioch, strange question:



Do you happen to have a story for this lady? For some reason, I can't shake the feeling that just offscreen, on the other side of the "camera," is the Maian equivalent of a pickup truck with someone close to Ms. Fieldstrider in the back, wielding the camera.

That's Spiral, who is a native of Maia. She's wearing an outfit that is typical of a juvenile warrior; presumably this was some time during her training on Maia.

[Hālian]

Will civilian loroi (1) appear (2) factor into the story at all?

What about any of the races listed in the Insider but not yet shown?

[ShadowDragon8685]

That's Spiral, who is a native of Maia. She's wearing an outfit that is typical of a juvenile warrior; presumably this was some time during her training on Maia.

Huh. I just figured it was some random civilian who happened to have hair that wasn't entirely unfamiliar.

I mean, I know a comic's a visual medium, but come on, a species with a population of trillions has to have somebody who just happens to wear her hair exactly like somebody else!

Also, I'd thought Spiral was Tabeni. Tabenese? What's the right word there?

[Arioch]

Will civilian loroi (1) appear (2) factor into the story at all?

A few, but they'll be either farseers or males, who are technically civilians. Most of the story takes place in combat areas where there are few civilians, and most of them are aliens.

What about any of the races listed in the Insider but not yet shown?

Most of the races mentioned in the Insider (on the Loroi side, at any rate) will make some kind of an appearance in the story.

Also, I'd thought Spiral was Tabeni. Tabenese? What's the right word there?

Tabenid, or whatever pleases you.

Spiral is from Maia, but she was shipped off to Taben to get her Tenoin training. Talon (who was in the same class) is a Taben native.

[Tamri]

What is the (approximate) power of the Lorai ships, excluding engines? I found a figure of ~ 40 TJ for Rapier weapons (ie 5x2 blasters and 12x3 lasers), add conditional 500 GJ on all other equipment. As far as energy consumption, for example, the Tempest, is different from the Rapier (the cost of the motion neglecting again)? What type of e-grid Loroi use (central cable / separated periphery)?

Minute of tediousness: If someone is interested in what s-effects produces a broken cable in the 10 kW, it can imagine what the consequences would cause interruption gigawatt cable in a confined space. If my assumptions are justified, the hit of any part of the front projection of, for example, Tempest, ended very badly, even if shot nothing gets something vital (that hardly).

As for me - this may one of the explanations why the Bell's bridge didn't survive the ship meeting with the plasma beam. From the voltage drop, breakdown the cable occurred on, for example, 1 MW. Or less, staff would certainly suffice.

[Arioch]

What is the (approximate) power of the Lorai ships, excluding engines? I found a figure of ~ 40 TJ for Rapier weapons (ie 5x2 blasters and 12x3 lasers), add conditional 500 GJ on all other equipment. As far as energy consumption, for example, the Tempest, is different from the Rapier (the cost of the motion neglecting again)? What type of e-grid Loroi use (central cable / separated periphery)?

I don't have precise estimates for the power requirements of ships; they would be somewhere in the terajoule order of magnitude. The power draw on the Tempest's weapons (especially the pulse cannons) would be much larger than a Rapier's medium blasters, as would the draw of the accumulators that feed the defensive screens/jump drive/wave loom device, so the internal power transmission infrastructure would have to be more extensive for the larger vessel.

I don't know enough about how TL12 power transmission systems would work to be able to say anything meaningful about how they would be constructed. The main power lines originate at the engines and run through the struts to the main accumulators in the forward prongs. Most heavy weapons are situated in the engine nacelles, very close to the power source.

[Hālian]

or whatever pleases you

Deinarid, Perreiner, Tabenese, Maian.

Also, I imagine that loroi starcraft would use fiber optics at the absolute least. This would of course mean that they need fucktons of sand.