Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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DevilDalek
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by DevilDalek »

How do Loroi wipe their bums? do they have paper or use the three shells principle? I've tried checking the only thing I can which is Alex's cell, but I cant make anything out.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

boldilocks wrote:Can a Loroi male become infertile? In such a case, what would happen to him?
(Oh, nvm, found this: "A male who is not interested in sex at all (for whatever reason) can refuse to be matched at all." on the loroi page, I assume an infertile male would effectively do the same.)
Also, it would take a pretty severe disorder (or extreme age). Loroi medical technology is fairly advanced.
cacambo43 wrote:Given the broad similarities between humans and Loroi, is the innate sense of familial attachment psychologically/sociologically repressed in Loroi society or genetically missing? Is there a motherly or parental attachment to children that is suppressed when a Loroi female has a child?
In this respect Loroi are more like pack animals in which only a select set of alphas are permitted to breed; the children are raised communally by the entire pack as a familial unit. The daughter and biological mother have special relationship, but it's not like the human mother-child relationship. Traditionally, the Loroi alphas who are reproducing are the leaders of the group, and so are very busy people who leave the details of raising children to family members of lower rank. There are cases in which mothers and daughters become closely attached, but this is the exception rather than the rule. So, this is not a behavior that has to be suppressed; Loroi family instincts are different at a basic level.

Male children are normally taken into specialized care very soon after birth, and so their biological families often have very little to do with their upbringing (aside from some legal and ceremonial input into education choices, etc.). Loroi fathers have no role in child rearing and will rarely even meet most of their children.
DevilDalek wrote:How do Loroi wipe their bums? do they have paper or use the three shells principle? I've tried checking the only thing I can which is Alex's cell, but I cant make anything out.
I doubt that expendable wipes like toilet paper would be a good solution in a closed system like a starship, so they probably have some kind of sponge or cloth wipes that have sophisticated fibers and/or chemical treatments that make them easy to clean in an efficient and antiseptic manner. Fortunately I don't forsee any story situations in which this system would need to be fleshed out. :D

The individual detention cells don't have any bathroom facilities; this is for security considerations (and for the same reason that there are no visible air vents).

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by dragoongfa »

Arioch wrote: In this respect Loroi are more like pack animals in which only a select set of alphas are permitted to breed; the children are raised communally by the entire pack as a familial unit. The daughter and biological mother have special relationship, but it's not like the human mother-child relationship. Traditionally, the Loroi alphas who are reproducing are the leaders of the group, and so are very busy people who leave the details of raising children to family members of lower rank. There are cases in which mothers and daughters become closely attached, but this is the exception rather than the rule. So, this is not a behavior that has to be suppressed; Loroi family instincts are different at a basic level.

Male children are normally taken into specialized care very soon after birth, and so their biological families often have very little to do with their upbringing (aside from some legal and ceremonial input into education choices, etc.). Loroi fathers have no role in child rearing and will rarely even meet most of their children.
Reading the above I have the sudden urge to point out that the modern style/ideal of a child being raised by just their parents is pretty much a very recent development, human families always used the extended family (grandparents, siblings, cousins and etc) in helping with taking care and raising the children. From having a familial creche of shorts for babies to having a relative teach their trade to the teenagers who were interested. In certain societies where vendettas were the norm it wasn't uncommon for extended families to practically wage war on one an other when an individual member of the family was wronged.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by SVlad »

Arioch wrote:I doubt that expendable wipes like toilet paper would be a good solution in a closed system like a starship, so they probably have some kind of sponge or cloth wipes that have sophisticated fibers and/or chemical treatments that make them easy to clean in an efficient and antiseptic manner.
On real ISS a expendable toilet paper used and it's not appear to be a problem for rather closed system of a space station. It shouldn't be a problem to replenish lack of paper, especially in comparison to washing reusable cloth.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by D1ff3r3nt »

SVlad wrote:
Arioch wrote:I doubt that expendable wipes like toilet paper would be a good solution in a closed system like a starship, so they probably have some kind of sponge or cloth wipes that have sophisticated fibers and/or chemical treatments that make them easy to clean in an efficient and antiseptic manner.
On real ISS a expendable toilet paper used and it's not appear to be a problem for rather closed system of a space station. It shouldn't be a problem to replenish lack of paper, especially in comparison to washing reusable cloth.
I just assumed they would use the 3 sea shells.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by DevilDalek »

I was thinking something like that, adding paper to the logistics is just an additional headache you don't need.

So Reed had to escort him to the toilet every time?
speaking of which, has Alex showered yet? maybe they will introduce him to Loroi bathing / mental training chambers?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by orion1836 »

DevilDalek wrote:I was thinking something like that, adding paper to the logistics is just an additional headache you don't need.

So Reed had to escort him to the toilet every time?
speaking of which, has Alex showered yet? maybe they will introduce him to Loroi bathing / mental training chambers?
Considering how much better humans think in the shower, wouldn't it be funny if Loroi telepathy became clearer or increased in range while bathing? :lol:

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Krulle »

water as a kind of focussing lens?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by DevilDalek »

orion1836 wrote:
DevilDalek wrote:I was thinking something like that, adding paper to the logistics is just an additional headache you don't need.

So Reed had to escort him to the toilet every time?
speaking of which, has Alex showered yet? maybe they will introduce him to Loroi bathing / mental training chambers?
Considering how much better humans think in the shower, wouldn't it be funny if Loroi telepathy became clearer or increased in range while bathing? :lol:

Well we do have the trope of the Grand master making his pupils sit meditating under waterfalls to concentrate their chi..

Reed:- These are the cleansing chambers Captain, you have been assigned this bathing rock, Fireblade has the one next to you so she can keep an eye on you.. see?

Alex: Buh...

Reed: we apologise we do not have normal male bathing systems such as hot baths, bubble baths and bath bombs, but this is a military ship and e do not carry such.. manly items.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by entity2636 »

First, hello to all from a new reader of this Comic and the forums. Randomly stumbled across The Outsider when looking for something sci-fi to read and am genuinely impressed by the amount of work that the Author has put into worldbuilding and backstorry, but disappointed at how rarely the comic is updated. Arioch, you can do way better than that! Can't wait to see what happens to our little band of misfits next.

Some things did, however, raise an eyebrow or two concerning the Loroi civilization.

I did take my time to read almost all 120+ pages of this thread and came to the following conclusions:

1) The Loroi in particular don't make sense as a warrior race, gene engineered or otherwise. This has to some degree been pointed out in earlier posts with examples from RPG rules manuals and concluded that they have all the traits of an engineered slave race. I would go one step further based on their biology/physiology and speculate, that the Loroi and Barsam must have been originally designed as livestock. Barsam as beasts of burden and, possibly, as food, the Loroi - most likely as something to be consumed, not necessarily for food, but rather for something else.

They are physically small and weak, don't have any outstanding regenerative abilities, do not possess any natural offensive or defensive adaptations (excluding telepathy, but I'll get to that later), reproduce exponentially, last long, don't consume much food, have good immune systems and, as a species on a grand scale they do not appear to have any signifficant drive for exploration, innovation, creative thinking and in general appear to not be the brightest. Perhaps they weren't designed to be sentient at all, but evolution somehow still happened to them over the years.

So my wild theory is, that the Loroi were designed to multiply quickly, grow up quickly, be cheap to maintain, and to be consumed. The only useful part of a Loroi is it's telepathic brain and it would be used as part of some sort of cybernetic wireless communications device by the Soia. Such a device makes sense because it works at FTL speeds, can be either point to point or broadcast, and can't be hacked/intercepted by purely technological means.

Or they could just as well be consumed as cheap food that grows quickly and keeps long if needed and their telepathic abilities are an unforeseen accident in their design or something that they developed from evolution.

2) I wonder, if Arioch specifically designed the Loroi as a society to be as depressing, unappealing and obnoxious as possible. I mean, at first I started seeing parallels between the Loroi and the Dominion from Star Trek (with your generic "greenshirt" Loroi being the Jem Hadar and the Mizol Loroi being the Vorta), but on second thought the Loroi are essentially the Empire of Lesbian Space Nazis and at this point I wouldn't be at all shocked or surprised to find out that the Loroi have concentration camps that would make Stalin and Hitler jealous, that they torture and conduct medical experiments on their POWs, or that Loroi children engage in cannibalism.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by dragoongfa »

Time to give my two cents about the points you bring up

1) To have sapient races be a form of a beast of burden or livestock at the tech level the Soians were is ludicrous. It's unknown what the Soians truly intended for the Barsam and the Loroi but sapient races don't react well when they are treated like livestock; never mind the fact that the Soians could easily artificially produce anything that either the Barsam or Loroi could be turned into just from teleportation and replication technology.

The Loroi make perfect sense as a high tech warrior race, their telepathy and telekinesis are great adaptations for warfare and intelligence gathering. Instant communications to all troops without the need of bulky equipment is the wet dream of any general who has experienced the hurdles of command and control; instant communications combined with telekinesis? The Loroi are the very picture of a natural C5I army: Command, Control, Communications, Computers (Listel caste), Collaboration and Intelligence (Mizol caste). Weak physical bodies don't mean anything at the tech levels the Loroi were expected to fight, they mean little to nothing in their war with the Umiak. If the Soians needed muscle at their tech levels they would have the Barsam anyway. Their lopsided sex ratios and their ability to reproduce quickly when needed also point out to them being geared for war, the Soians would be able to limit Loroi growth by limiting access to males and explode the Loroi population should they need more of them by lifting those restriction.

The Loroi are also very creative, intelligent and driven by the standards that the Local bubble sapient races have put in place, they advanced relatively quickly technologically and have formed a multiracial political entity. Underestimating them is dangerous.

2) Stopped reading at 'Empire of Lesbian Space Nazis'. Read the insider to get a better picture on Loroi society and how it was formed.

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/insider.html

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Gorbash »

1. "Physically small and weak" is a strange argument to make given that the Loroi don't need to rely on physical capabilities beyond "ability to use technology". Being generally small in scale lowers logistical requirements for transportation and maintenance (i.e. feeding them), as well as decreasing the nutrient and time requirements of gestation. Combine that with telepathic abilities that allow them to communicate long distances and punch quite literally above their weight.

I don't see much of a need to create a foot soldier capable of enormous physical strength in a system where you can rely on spaceships and ground vehicles for transportation, projectile weapons for combat, and brain powers for lifting heavy objects.

2. If you don't like the comic, don't read it. This is a bit like watching Star Trek and complaining that the Klingon Empire looks like an unfun place to live. The Loroi are imperious, violent, and arrogant, but those aren't particularly inhuman traits, and declaring they must be the Evilest Evil to Ever Evil comes of as a bit facetious.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Gorbash wrote:I don't see much of a need to create a foot soldier capable of enormous physical strength in a system where you can rely on spaceships and ground vehicles for transportation, projectile weapons for combat, and brain powers for lifting heavy objects.
And if you did, you might create something that looked like, say... a Barsam.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Siber »

That brings me to an interesting question that I can't believe hasn't been asked but that I can't find a set of search terms to manageable turn up. Do the various Soia-Liron species have notable overlap in diet? I know the insider says they share biochemistry, but I share a lot of biochemistry with mice and our diets are pretty divergent. Could a Barsam and a Loroi trade refrigerators and not have to worry about going through the unpleasantness Alex did in finding edibles? Or is the amount of overlap pretty much in line with that of any two random species in the bubble?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arent »

entity2636 wrote:Some things did, however, raise an eyebrow or two concerning the Loroi civilization.
The Loroi, Umiak and other races are heavily inspired by the Master of Orion Elerians, Klackon etc. The Elerians are feudal, caste system warriors & the Klackon are unified hive insects. I interpret your comment in such a way that you are not familiar with the game.

This explains basically all traits that you find eyebrow raising. The Elerians/Loroi are basically the typical "Elves in space", magical, long living, beautiful. There is nothing new here, staple Elves even in Tolkien are xenophobic, often depicted as warriors & mercilessly kill Orcs. Tolkien Elves surely wouldn't put them in "concentration camps", they would just kill them on sight.

The Umiak are the typical "insects in space". They are highly productive, zealous & without creativity charging at the enemy. This also explains their merciless treatment of subjugated races & their "reduced" ability to interact diplomatically.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by entity2636 »

Arent -> true, I read somewhere here that these races were inspired by MoO, but, to be honest, I don't remember that much of MoO lore, it must be some 10...15 years or so since I last played it. Still, one side are faschist d*cks, the other - almost like the Borg... Yay for us humans :D

Anyway, didn't come here to troll or offend anyone on purpose, so - peace! And I very much like the comic and can't wait to see what happens next and how the story goes.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by entity2636 »

Siber wrote:That brings me to an interesting question that I can't believe hasn't been asked but that I can't find a set of search terms to manageable turn up. Do the various Soia-Liron species have notable overlap in diet? I know the insider says they share biochemistry, but I share a lot of biochemistry with mice and our diets are pretty divergent. Could a Barsam and a Loroi trade refrigerators and not have to worry about going through the unpleasantness Alex did in finding edibles? Or is the amount of overlap pretty much in line with that of any two random species in the bubble?
Well, both you, me and mice could technically eat the same food in and not poison ourselves, if that's what you mean. Would we like said food, is a different thing. Consequently, same should be true for Soia-Lirons, no?

The big question is, how can Alex eat Soian food and not poison himself beyond indigestion or die from hunger? I mean, as far as I understand, the basic principle in layman's terms is that one must eat basically the same chemical compounds one's own body is made of. Herbivores are different in that they have bacteria in their digestive tracts that convert cellulose to simple sugars their bodies can then absorb. Wonder, if Alex's hosts have given it some thouht, or are finding out as they go/not giving it any thought at all...

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by CF2 »

Alex could potentially be experiencing some bacterial adjustment, as happens when you go somewhere distant and the local produce colonizes your gut with their strains of bacteria. In that case we may yet see him able to stomach the food he's given, if not enjoy it. His disagreement with his meals might also stem from additives in the food, preservatives or supplemental compounds nutritious and digestible to Loroi. Less processed meals may be the ticket, in which case he'll find out which home-world boasts the best home cooking.
Hint: it's Perrein. Tempo's going to prove the old adage about food and a man's heart.

Alternatively they may try feeding him food preferred by non-engineered species and see whether a diet favored by the Delrias, Golim, Mannadi, Nibiren, or Nissek suits his needs better.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Siber wrote:That brings me to an interesting question that I can't believe hasn't been asked but that I can't find a set of search terms to manageable turn up. Do the various Soia-Liron species have notable overlap in diet? I know the insider says they share biochemistry, but I share a lot of biochemistry with mice and our diets are pretty divergent. Could a Barsam and a Loroi trade refrigerators and not have to worry about going through the unpleasantness Alex did in finding edibles? Or is the amount of overlap pretty much in line with that of any two random species in the bubble?
Their dietary requirements are very similar. The same general range of Soia-Liron food crops exist on Justa and Derro (the Barsam and Neridi capitals, respectively) as exist on Deinar and Taben, and so they are eating many of the same food items. Sometimes they prepare the same food items differently; for example, while the Loroi and Neridi eat only the tender "heart" of the nagen seed pod, the Barsam usually cook and eat the entire pod including the tough husk; Barsam require more calcium and have more robust teeth and digestive systems to consume tougher foods with more cellulose. There are also a variety of local foods on the various worlds and subsequent colonies that local populations have adapted to, and different cultures have developed differing eating habits (most -- but not all -- Barsam are vegetarians). However, there is evidence to suggest that, prior to their separation, all of the sentient Soia-Liron species were at one time part of a shared food biome.

Soia-Liron food items contain mostly the same kinds of compounds in our own foods (sugars, proteins, carbohydrates, etc.), but in different proportions and chemical arrangements. The packaged shipboard food that Alex was given had been sterilized for preservation, so Soia-Liron microbes are not the biggest problem, but Alex's own gut microbiomes are not accustomed to the substances he is eating.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Arioch wrote:Soia-Liron food items contain mostly the same kinds of compounds in our own foods (sugars, proteins, carbohydrates, etc.), but in different proportions and chemical arrangements. The packaged shipboard food that Alex was given had been sterilized for preservation, so Soia-Liron microbes are not the biggest problem, but Alex's own gut microbiomes are not accustomed to the substances he is eating.
How do the Loroi (and other races) accomplish that food sterilization? Irradiation?

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