Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Hālian
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Hālian »

Arioch wrote:...unless Alex brought some with him (he didn't).
He's from Cali, pot capital of the known universe, and he doesn't have any? :P
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Victor_D
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Victor_D »

CJ Miller wrote:He's from Cali, pot capital of the known universe, and he doesn't have any? :P
Beryl: "Captain Jardin, we've found these little bags containing green plant material in the wreckage of your vessel. There is something written on them in the script of your dialect, could you please translate?"
This stuff is MINE so don't even THINK about it! -Alex
Alex: "Um, it's a form of... ehm, food seasoning."
Beryl: "I am not yet completely familiar with your language, but this word written there seems to be your name, am I correct?"
Alex: "Um, yes, I mean, maybe, the handwriting is terrible..."
Beryl: "Are you in distress, Captain Jardin? Your face is changing colour."

;)

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Yiuel »

I have been surprised by one thing. Loroi population, if I go along what I can infer from the Insider's guide, isn't much more than 2 billion people, 3 billion top. Their main sister planet barely reaches 1 billion. I compare that to present Earth, which probably crossed the 7 billion mark by now. And we are on a single planet. Something in there explaining why Loroi are so small in terms of total population, despite ruling the second largest State in the vincinity?
la nɔtʀʏltsɪmœ ʀɛv, dɛ ʒã puʀ la pʀɔtɛʒe
nu vœnõ dõkœ dœ tupaʀtu, puʀ ɛtʀœ sa ɡʀãdaʀme
dœ la site pʀɔtɛktœʀ, dœ sœ ʀɛvœ defãsœʀ
ynjõ dœ la fɔʀsœ dœ tus, nu vwasijalɔʀ lɛzɔʀiɔnɪt

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

The Loroi are somewhere between 50 and 100 billion.

Humans in the story are at about 25 billion.

EDIT:
Arioch wrote:I don't have much in the way of hard Loroi population figures. Checking my notes, the three Loroi splinter worlds had a combined population of about 1.25 billion in 850 CE, at the time of rediscovery of starflight. I had made a note that Perrein's population had only increased from 200 million to 500 million since then, but that this was unusual, and also that the most populous Loroi planet was Maia. Most Loroi worlds would probably have populations much small than that of Earth, but Loroi territory is perhaps ten times as large. I would guess at a figure somewhere in the neighborhood to 50 to 100 billion. With high birth rates and appalling casualty rates, the number could fluctuate a lot.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by GeoModder »

Trantor wrote:Hm, it´s the LOROI q&a-thread, but one question on the Barsam:

Please tell me that for their appearance you weren´t inspired by this:

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Good one. :lol:
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Victor_D »

fredgiblet wrote:The Loroi are somewhere between 50 and 100 billion.

Humans in the story are at about 25 billion.

EDIT:
Arioch wrote:I don't have much in the way of hard Loroi population figures. Checking my notes, the three Loroi splinter worlds had a combined population of about 1.25 billion in 850 CE, at the time of rediscovery of starflight. I had made a note that Perrein's population had only increased from 200 million to 500 million since then, but that this was unusual, and also that the most populous Loroi planet was Maia. Most Loroi worlds would probably have populations much small than that of Earth, but Loroi territory is perhaps ten times as large. I would guess at a figure somewhere in the neighborhood to 50 to 100 billion. With high birth rates and appalling casualty rates, the number could fluctuate a lot.
Actually, this is something I don't understand - why should the Loroi suffer so high casualties that they need to lift population restrictions on their worlds?

If their population counts in tens of billions (regardless of whether it's close to 50 or 100 billion), I don't understand how could even the loss of their entire fleet worth of warriors each year even make a dent in this (barring the Umiak glassing their worlds in consequence, of course). Arioch stated that the number of ships in the Loroi fleet is "in thousands". I don't know what their crew complements are, but for the sake of the argument let's say an average Loroi ship has a crew of 1000 and that there are ten thousand ships in the fleet. This would put the number of Loroi warriors serving in the fleet at 10 million. Ok, so let's say you need 10 times the number if you include the support personnel - so it's now around 100 million Loroi serving in the fleet. That's still only something between 0.2 and 0.1 per cent of the overall Loroi population. Since about half of their people belong to the warrior castes, that's about 0.4 and 0.2 per cent respectively of the manpower available to the military. (By contrast, about 1% of Americans serve in the military/are in military reserve.)

Now, of course the Loroi aren't losing the whole fleet each year, so the the losses may be as low as, say, 0.04 per cent of the available manpower per year. That's nothing, it should be easily replaceable even without lifting population control limits. It seems to me that losses of ships, and thus of the invested industrial capacity, would be far, FAR, more problematic than the manpower losses. AFAIK, ground combat at this stage in the war is pretty rare, so it cannot account for the "missing" casualties.

So, is this an inconsistency in the story, or is there any other explanation for it that I've missed?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Suederwind »

Just some minor questions after rereading the comic:
On page 88, Stillstorm says that she recognise the odd patterns of the Umiak Commander. What patterns did she meant and how could she recognise them, if communication between Umiak and Loroi forces is something unusual?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Jericho »

Suederwind wrote:Just some minor questions after rereading the comic:
On page 88, Stillstorm says that she recognise the odd patterns of the Umiak Commander. What patterns did she meant and how could she recognise them, if communication between Umiak and Loroi forces is something unusual?

Oh oh let me guess :D .

Allright i think she is referring to the umiaks selfpreservational habits. Most umiak are rather uncaring of their own health or life so it's unusual for an umiak to deliberately seek to preserve losses and it's own life. The stray's (which it is called) tactics are from what i see more or less based on deception than brute force and numbers (not that it doesn't use them too). The stray's decision of withholding it's major force and rather test the defenders strength to better access the situation could be what she's meaning.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Victor_D »

BTW, was Kikitik-27 really offering to spare Stillstorm and her crew, or was it just a jest on his part?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Suederwind »

Oh oh let me guess :D .
Oh dear, I think I was a little lost in translation on this one. :lol:
I thought she was talking about the patterns of his ship or the "chitin" plates of his body. But his unusual tactics make much more sense as an explanation.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Jericho »

Victor_D wrote:BTW, was Kikitik-27 really offering to spare Stillstorm and her crew, or was it just a jest on his part?
I believe the politically correct term is it.

I think there is two possibilities here.

1) It is serious because it's people have discovered the ability to obstruct and damp telepathy not only on themselves but on others as well. This means that it may have had the intentions of letting the loroi surrender in order to hold her up as a trophy. Just imagine the prestige of bringing the storm-witch to empire in chains.

2) It's just trying to lure them in a false sense of security (deception). It may be trying to use the loroi's inability to sense it's intentions and mental fatigue to get them to power down and hopefully step away from what they are guarding.
Suederwind wrote:
Oh oh let me guess :D .
Oh dear, I think I was a little lost in translation on this one. :lol:
I thought she was talking about the patterns of his ship or the "chitin" plates of his body. But his unusual tactics make much more sense as an explanation.
Ah now that you mention it maybe i should read more carefully in the future :) . Either way my guess still stands.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Karst45 »

Arioch wrote:
Trantor wrote:Please tell me that for their appearance you weren´t inspired by this:
I wasn't inspired by that.

The "big noseless aliens" unfortunately mostly look very similar.
It more than just the physical resemblance,

Space Preachers !!!

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Yiuel wrote:I have been surprised by one thing. Loroi population, if I go along what I can infer from the Insider's guide, isn't much more than 2 billion people, 3 billion top. Their main sister planet barely reaches 1 billion. I compare that to present Earth, which probably crossed the 7 billion mark by now. And we are on a single planet. Something in there explaining why Loroi are so small in terms of total population, despite ruling the second largest State in the vincinity?
The Loroi have significant populations on a large number of planets, more than just the original Sister Worlds, so the total population is a lot more than just a few billion. Maia is the most populous Loroi world. I don't have accurate numbers on what the total population is, but it's sigificantly larger than the total human population.

The reason that most individual Loroi planets don't have populations much higher than a few billion is that they choose not to. Loroi population growth is under tight government control; you have to get permission to have children. Individual communities decide what they think is an appropriate maximum population for the area, and then they set a cap. It's only in places like Maia where the social rules and ample space/resources allow for much larger populations.
Victor_D wrote: Actually, this is something I don't understand - why should the Loroi suffer so high casualties that they need to lift population restrictions on their worlds?
The first part of the answer is that high-tech societes are specialized; it's not easy to just grab a person from one role and toss her into someone else's role. For one thing, many jobs require years of training, and for another: who's now doing that person's old job? Combat personnel are usually a small percentage of the total population (especially in any high-tech system that requires a lot of logistics and support, like air forces and navies), but they're highly specialized and can't easily be replaced, so even when the loss rates are small compared to the total population, they can still cause serious manpower shortages and disruptions to society.

If you look at the casualty rates for WWII, which was the bloodiest war in our history, the actual percentages of loss are very small compared to the total population. Japan's disastrous losses amounted to only about 4% of the population, but they suffered from debilitating manpower shortages, especially in key areas. One key shortage I heard about was in pilots; prior to the war, the Japanese placed rigorous standards on their pilot training, and washed out large numbers of capable pilots who didn't measure up. So the result was an elite pilot corps, but very little manpower reserve, and a system that would make training more to the same standard very difficult and time-consuming. And so, when the Japanese lost a significant percentage of their best pilots at Coral Sea and Midway, this was a blow from which they were not able to recover. When the critical "big" air battles came a few years later at the Marianas and Philippines, the majority of Japanese pilots were hastily-trained replacements who were no match for their American counterparts, and the result is still remembered as a "turkey-shoot."

The Loroi had a much larger personnel reserve, but they have a similar challenge in that warriors are not recruited from civilian populations, but instead trained from a young age. It's possible to throw some desk jockeys or even civilians into needed specialties in a pinch, but that replacement is going to operate at reduced effectiveness, and the job that person used to perform prior to being reassigned will not get done. When a military loses a third of its combat forces in a single battle, that's going to present very serious personnel challenges, even if those losses represent a relatively small percentage of the total population.

The second part of answer is that the Loroi have lost a lot more than just ship crews. In the first five years of the war, the Loroi lost about a dozen inhabited systems and suffered raids directly into populated regions; the majority of the population in the lost systems were evacuated beforehand, but the loss of life was still staggering. Looking again at the WWII loss rates, even in those situations with the most appalling losses and incidents of genocide, the worst percentages of loss are "only" in the neighborhood of 16% (Poland) to 14% (Soviet Union). The loss of ten percent of your population is devastating to a modern society, especially during time of war. It's really hard to field new forces and increase production at home when you have fewer people.

I would agree that losses of ships and materiel are probably more of a crisis than the manpower shortages, but ships can be replaced on a much shorter time scale than people.
Karst45 wrote:It more than just the physical resemblance, Space Preachers !!!
Ah, I missed that element of it. Funny.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Imbrooge »

Some questions,

1) Has Alex so far convinced the Loroi he is totally not a psychic? If not will he ever convince them or will cognitive bias prevail?

2) If he fails to convince them otherwise that Humanity is not a psychic race would they be pretty miffed about the one race that could communicate to them on a meaningful level the same way as them (from their perspective anyways, regardless of how true that belief is) borderline shutting them out and rejecting them at virtually any and all circumstances? To clarifiy I don't mean exclusively politics alone but ALL circumstances.

3) Lastly, cause I don't think this was answered but how about pets? They all up and upon the idea of house pets? Or does this vary?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Loroi inhabit a variety of different worlds, and so they may have a variety of different pets. On many of the major Loroi worlds such as Deinar, Taben and Maia, the higher animals are almost all decended from Soia-Liron livestock, so there aren't many social predators from which to choose true companion-like pets (like dogs and cats). Probably the most common pet is one of a variety of miros, which is an omnivorous forager similar to a pig. Perrein has a wealth of highly-developed native animals and the local Loroi have a tradition of handling them, but they are mostly potentially lethal and not very cuddly (bugs, worms, tree-climbing squid-things).

I think a Terran merchant with a concession selling kittens in Loroi territory would quickly become a very popular guy.

As to the other questions, I think it's best not to short-circuit the story by commenting on what the Loroi really think about Alex or what they're going to do in the future.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by JQBogus »

Arioch wrote: I think a Terran merchant with a concession selling kittens in Loroi territory would quickly become a very popular guy.

Bah...now we need artwork of Loroi with kittens. Kittens might even get Fireblade to smile.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

Arioch wrote:Perrein has a wealth of highly-developed native animals and the local Loroi have a tradition of handling them, but they are mostly potentially lethal and not very cuddly (bugs, worms, tree-climbing squid-things).
I want a tree-climbing squid-thing! *pouts*
I think a Terran merchant with a concession selling kittens in Loroi territory would quickly become a very popular guy.
Our true value to the Loroi has been revealed! Unfortunately cats are telepathic as well and the Feline-Loroi alliance will be our downfall, we should have given them more tuna.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Imbrooge »

You peaked my interest, so some more questions.

So I presume that Loroi would love Cats cause their cuddly ok, but what about Dogs? They've got the utility and are cuddly although a diffirent kind after they grow up. (Or do I have to bombard you with images of puppies?) Would they take a liking to Horses or Birds too or just the felines?

View of Zombies? Cause I always wondered since your comment of Loroi impressions of human media being very confusing documentaries.

Also, these pet questions also extend to the "Space Preachers".

Lastly, would the Historians be interested in our whales?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Trantor »

fredgiblet wrote:I want a tree-climbing squid-thing! *pouts*
Something between a Facehugger and a Squirrel?
fredgiblet wrote:Unfortunately cats are telepathic as well and the Feline-Loroi alliance will be our downfall, we should have given them more tuna.
Salmon, at least.


JQBogus wrote: Bah...now we need artwork of Loroi with kittens.
LOLoi cats? :D


Imbrooge wrote:Lastly, would the Historians be interested in our whales?
Where´s Spock when you need him? :D



:arrow: Edit: Chocolate, and now cats, our position gets better and better!
sapere aude.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

Do the Loroi have a word for "cute"?

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