Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Suederwind wrote:Hm... The next questions might sound a bit stupid, sorry in advance.
Do Loroi collect historical items that are not of Soia origin, especially of their own? Or are those things considered disposable?
Do they show such items in museums or public spaces for everyone to see, or are they keept in some Listel ivory tower under locks and bars?
Yes, some Loroi are avid collectors of historical items. Stillstorm has a collection in her quarters, which we will see at some point.

As with our own society, some artifacts are kept by private collectors and some are on public display.
Tamri wrote:What do the names Lorai metropolises respectively Deinar, Perrein and Taben? Well, kind of like our "Earth" means "the land / soil".
Some place names, especially newer ones, have literal meanings in Trade (Mezan is "sand", and Perrein means "rocky"), but some older names (including Deinar and Taben) date back to ancient times, and the meanings of the words are not always clear.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Are Loroi corvettes capable of atmospheric flight and landing? It seems like they should be - they're pretty small, they don't carry any shuttlecraft of their own, and they'd have a vaguely aerodynamic shape.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Are Loroi corvettes capable of atmospheric flight and landing? It seems like they should be - they're pretty small, they don't carry any shuttlecraft of their own, and they'd have a vaguely aerodynamic shape.
Hardly. Shuttles can dock and out. And any ships with interplanetary engines cannot entering to the atmosphere but to fall into it. Firstly, any interplanetary engine of sufficient power - is a radiation, at least the alpha-beta or even gamma. Secondly, the tolerances for the casing and design spaceships quite different than for atmospheric aircraft. Third, even the Corvette "by eye" weigh about 5-10 kilotons, which is a bit much for planting on GDP. It would be possible to planted for water, if not paragraph 1.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Hālian »

Do loroi have separate dress uniforms? If so, what do they look like?

For that matter, what do civilians wear?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Are Loroi corvettes capable of atmospheric flight and landing? It seems like they should be - they're pretty small, they don't carry any shuttlecraft of their own, and they'd have a vaguely aerodynamic shape.
The problem is that the main engines are not suitable for atmospheric use; it would be kind of like using atomic rockets on Earth, a hazard both to the planet and the spacecraft. So, a vessel needs to have alternate or secondary atmosphere-safe engines (as shuttles do) to be able to operate in and out of atmosphere. Some kind of specialty vessel might have this, must most starships don't.
Carl Miller wrote:Do loroi have separate dress uniforms? If so, what do they look like?
The armored uniforms we see are the "formal" versions of Loroi military dress; some specialties also have "duty" or informal versions (such as Fireblade's combat armor, or the informal bodysuits).
Carl Miller wrote:For that matter, what do civilians wear?
They wear a wide variety of things depending on role and occasion, but the stereotypical Loroi outfit is a close-fitting bodysuit.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Arioch wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Are Loroi corvettes capable of atmospheric flight and landing? It seems like they should be - they're pretty small, they don't carry any shuttlecraft of their own, and they'd have a vaguely aerodynamic shape.
The problem is that the main engines are not suitable for atmospheric use; it would be kind of like using atomic rockets on Earth, a hazard both to the planet and the spacecraft. So, a vessel needs to have alternate or secondary atmosphere-safe engines (as shuttles do) to be able to operate in and out of atmosphere. Some kind of specialty vessel might have this, must most starships don't.
Ah.
So, for a corvette at least, the answer would be "yes, but only if you don't give a damn about the environment of the planet in question."
Carl Miller wrote:Do loroi have separate dress uniforms? If so, what do they look like?
The armored uniforms we see are the "formal" versions of Loroi military dress; some specialties also have "duty" or informal versions (such as Fireblade's combat armor, or the informal bodysuits).
So, they spend all day on duty in their dress uniforms? No wonder they're so grumpy.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Hālian »

Why do a loroi's eyes glow under psionic exertion?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Carl Miller wrote:Why do a loroi's eyes glow under psionic exertion?
Arioch has said that it is down to the discretion of the user reader if they do indeed glow or if it is just a comic visual clue that they are doing something by using telekinesis.

I am going with the visual clue approach.

EDIT: clarification
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Hālian »

That would also seem the more plausible explanation.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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I couldn't find an answer to this with a brief forum search, though I may not have searched particularly intelligently.

During his time aboard Tempest, was Alex held in some kind of brig cell/quarantine room/other form of containment cell, or was he held in crew quarters?

If he was in the brig, what are Loroi ship's crew accommodations typically like? I'd expect that Stillstorm probably gets better accommodations than some Paset, of course, but what in general would Loroi crew accommodations be like?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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ShadowDragon8685 wrote:I couldn't find an answer to this with a brief forum search, though I may not have searched particularly intelligently.

During his time aboard Tempest, was Alex held in some kind of brig cell/quarantine room/other form of containment cell, or was he held in crew quarters?

If he was in the brig, what are Loroi ship's crew accommodations typically like? I'd expect that Stillstorm probably gets better accommodations than some Paset, of course, but what in general would Loroi crew accommodations be like?
He was being held in the ship's brig. Can't speak to typical Loroi shipboard accommodations, though.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Dahak »

Arioch wrote: The problem is that the main engines are not suitable for atmospheric use; it would be kind of like using atomic rockets on Earth, a hazard both to the planet and the spacecraft. So, a vessel needs to have alternate or secondary atmosphere-safe engines (as shuttles do) to be able to operate in and out of atmosphere. Some kind of specialty vessel might have this, must most starships don't.
That implies a practical limit that prevents them floating ships up and down on their artificial gravity systems. The Kzin lesson implies loroi ships have some low power manuevering capability for manuevering near things like crippled freindly ships or repair docks.

Or that ones you've turned the drives on they aren't good for atmospheric enviroments even if not being used. Though that would allow for the SSD Lusyanka build on the planetary surface, float to orbit and then turn the drives on trick.

Or that you can but its so slow and awkward it would rarely be a sensible thing to do.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Dahak wrote:
Arioch wrote: The problem is that the main engines are not suitable for atmospheric use; it would be kind of like using atomic rockets on Earth, a hazard both to the planet and the spacecraft. So, a vessel needs to have alternate or secondary atmosphere-safe engines (as shuttles do) to be able to operate in and out of atmosphere. Some kind of specialty vessel might have this, must most starships don't.
That implies a practical limit that prevents them floating ships up and down on their artificial gravity systems. The Kzin lesson implies loroi ships have some low power maneuvering capability for maneuvering near things like crippled friendly ships or repair docks.

Or that ones you've turned the drives on they aren't good for atmospheric environments even if not being used. Though that would allow for the SSD Lusyanka build on the planetary surface, float to orbit and then turn the drives on trick.

Or that you can but its so slow and awkward it would rarely be a sensible thing to do.
I'd expect it would be sensible if you had a corvette, which has no shuttles, and you desperately needed to land, say, to procure provisions.
I'd imagine that the maneuvering thrusters would be more than enough on their own to land on, say, the Moon (of Earth) and lift off again, though.

Arioch said specialized ships would probably have dual atmo/exoatmospheric flight configurations. To me, that says 'Yacht' and 'Research Vessel' are the most likely candidates, but I could also see something like a corvette-sized Loroi version of the Skyranger from XCOM; not a warship, a commando vessel with jump capabilities intended to be able to insert a unit of Unsheathed behind enemy lines where they can do an extraordinary amount of damage and then GTFO.
Presumably, they'd only refrain from using their main drives on the way in, so as not to give their commandos a case of radiation poisoning when they disembark, and would have little compunction doing so on the way out.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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ShadowDragon8685 wrote:During his time aboard Tempest, was Alex held in some kind of brig cell/quarantine room/other form of containment cell, or was he held in crew quarters?

If he was in the brig, what are Loroi ship's crew accommodations typically like? I'd expect that Stillstorm probably gets better accommodations than some Paset, of course, but what in general would Loroi crew accommodations be like?
Alex was held in a secured detention area.

The crew accommodations aboard Loroi warships are somewhat Spartan, and similar to that on submarines. Most crewmembers don't have their own private spaces, but instead sleep in the equivalent of bunk beds and share communal living spaces. Only the highest-ranking officers have private cabins.
Dahak wrote:That implies a practical limit that prevents them floating ships up and down on their artificial gravity systems. The Kzin lesson implies loroi ships have some low power maneuvering capability for maneuvering near things like crippled friendly ships or repair docks.
That assumes that the inertial damping system produces a net thrust on the ship itself, or actually negates the external effects of gravity, neither of which I think is necessarily the case. If they had true antigravity, then even the largest vessels could easily get to and from the surface on maneuvering thrusters. That would be visually awesome in a Lensman mega-space-opera style, but it's contrary to the infrastructure assumptions that I had made thus far; shuttles and space elevators would be largely unnecessary, and most ships would be constructed on the ground instead of in orbital shipyards.

I'll have to think about that.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Dahak, ShadowDragon8685

Firstly, shuttles, boats and other small provisions craft / half-atmospheric vessels to all kinds of smaller ships like corvettes, which not having its own hangar, may dock out, as I wrote earlier.

Secondly, the large ships HAVE a low-thrust engines, they are the same steering or orientation engines. But they are intended only for accurate maneuvering, for example for docking / undocking. Their thrust is insufficient for normal flight, even more so in terms of the atmosphere and the planet's gravity well.

Third, even if (as happened) the ship flew into the atmosphere and normally there myself am feeling (hypothetically). What's next? He cannot landing: Not one GDP will not sustain even the corvette, and chassis that can withstand 5-10 kilotons parking masses don't exist even hypothetically. Not to mention the fact that the landing gear is experiencing permissible overload on landing up to 150% of the parking mass. For the optimal landing. That dramatically increases the demands on the chassis of our Corvette in terms of withstand loads up to 15-20 kilotons minimum.

You can try to put the ship on the water, BUT: This is turn out or a very light ships that have the optimal shape of the bottom (roughly speaking, with hydro-starship) or with the ships, whose air-filled internal volume and the area of contact with water can make compensate for it (the ship ) mass. In my estimation, landing Rapier on the water is still possible, but the Tempest will drown instantly. And corvette sink too, simply because it is too heavy for that would float due to buoyancy forces, and too small to swim for the second method.

This is with the exception that the ship which landed on water not may take off himself.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Mr Bojangles »

Arioch wrote:
Dahak wrote:That implies a practical limit that prevents them floating ships up and down on their artificial gravity systems. The Kzin lesson implies loroi ships have some low power maneuvering capability for maneuvering near things like crippled friendly ships or repair docks.
That assumes that the inertial damping system produces a net thrust on the ship itself, or actually negates the external effects of gravity, neither of which I think is necessarily the case. If they had true antigravity, then even the largest vessels could easily get to and from the surface on maneuvering thrusters. That would be visually awesome in a Lensman mega-space-opera style, but it's contrary to the infrastructure assumptions that I had made thus far; shuttles and space elevators would be largely unnecessary, and most ships would be constructed on the ground instead of in orbital shipyards.

I'll have to think about that.
This is something that's always driven me kind of nuts about scifi settings with some form of gravitic control. Definitely something I've probably devoted too much time to...

Inertial damping is meant to counter acceleration forces. Acceleration is equivalent to gravitational force. So, if you want anti-gravity, you just need to point your inertial dampers at the nearest gravity well and suddenly your ship is floating free. Given that Loroi warships can survive 30G's without issue, their dampers could probably push them off a planet.

Personally, I've always thought that gravity generators and intertial dampers wouldn't just be a part of the same system - they'd be the same thing, as they're meant to control the same force. This is how you'd get a reactionless drive. I could be totally wrong, though; I don't actually know how to control gravity. :)

edit: It just kind of hit me that I've been thinking about this very topic since I first watched ST:TNG as a kid. Wow, I am such a nerd...

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

One of the basic workarounds for gravity propulsion in settings that have artificial gravity is that the artificial gravity requires both a physical positive and negative pole. That is, a plate in the ceiling to push and a plate in the floor to pull. Making it impossible to simply put a pusher plate on the end of the ship and accelerate forever.

As for inertial dampening, most of what it really has to do is prevent molecules of different densities from accelerating at different rates, or put in another way, it has to transmit the force of acceleration evenly throughout the space, rather than propagating through normal means. By equalizing the effects of external acceleration, it can turn the ship as a whole into something of a "rigid body," without affecting the net acceleration.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Tamri »

Mr Bojangles wrote:
SpoilerShow
This is something that's always driven me kind of nuts about scifi settings with some form of gravitic control. Definitely something I've probably devoted too much time to...

Inertial damping is meant to counter acceleration forces. Acceleration is equivalent to gravitational force. So, if you want anti-gravity, you just need to point your inertial dampers at the nearest gravity well and suddenly your ship is floating free. Given that Loroi warships can survive 30G's without issue, their dampers could probably push them off a planet.

Personally, I've always thought that gravity generators and intertial dampers wouldn't just be a part of the same system - they'd be the same thing, as they're meant to control the same force. This is how you'd get a reactionless drive. I could be totally wrong, though; I don't actually know how to control gravity. :)

edit: It just kind of hit me that I've been thinking about this very topic since I first watched ST:TNG as a kid. Wow, I am such a nerd...
Not really. For what would be the contents of the ship is not smeared on it at high acceleration, it is necessary to uniformly accelerate the entire ship including the insides. And to ensure that the ship would be in terms of the crew didn't look like a skyscraper, already need artificial gravity generators. Or magnetic boots. Or floor with suction cups. In short, something, that would allow a plane running in parallel axis acceleration to be floor or ceiling, not the wall.

The first technology will not lift your ship out of the gravity well. But the second - can. In fact, if someone learns to manipulate gravitational fields, I don't understand why he has some other engines.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Mr Bojangles »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

One of the basic workarounds for gravity propulsion in settings that have artificial gravity is that the artificial gravity requires both a physical positive and negative pole. That is, a plate in the ceiling to push and a plate in the floor to pull. Making it impossible to simply put a pusher plate on the end of the ship and accelerate forever.

As for inertial dampening, most of what it really has to do is prevent molecules of different densities from accelerating at different rates, or put in another way, it has to transmit the force of acceleration evenly throughout the space, rather than propagating through normal means. By equalizing the effects of external acceleration, it can turn the ship as a whole into something of a "rigid body," without affecting the net acceleration.
The method you're describing sounds different from what I've seen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your dampeners instantaneously transmit force throughout the entirety of a space, rather than applying a counter-force. In that case, you're right, dampeners wouldn't provide any sort of contra-gravitic thrust. As you probably gathered from my post, I was thinking of a completely different method.
Tamri wrote:
Mr Bojangles wrote:
SpoilerShow
This is something that's always driven me kind of nuts about scifi settings with some form of gravitic control. Definitely something I've probably devoted too much time to...

Inertial damping is meant to counter acceleration forces. Acceleration is equivalent to gravitational force. So, if you want anti-gravity, you just need to point your inertial dampers at the nearest gravity well and suddenly your ship is floating free. Given that Loroi warships can survive 30G's without issue, their dampers could probably push them off a planet.

Personally, I've always thought that gravity generators and intertial dampers wouldn't just be a part of the same system - they'd be the same thing, as they're meant to control the same force. This is how you'd get a reactionless drive. I could be totally wrong, though; I don't actually know how to control gravity. :)

edit: It just kind of hit me that I've been thinking about this very topic since I first watched ST:TNG as a kid. Wow, I am such a nerd...
Not really. For what would be the contents of the ship is not smeared on it at high acceleration, it is necessary to uniformly accelerate the entire ship including the insides. And to ensure that the ship would be in terms of the crew didn't look like a skyscraper, already need artificial gravity generators. Or magnetic boots. Or floor with suction cups. In short, something, that would allow a plane running in parallel axis acceleration to be floor or ceiling, not the wall.

The first technology will not lift your ship out of the gravity well. But the second - can. In fact, if someone learns to manipulate gravitational fields, I don't understand why he has some other engines.
Right. If you can manipulate gravity, you can uniformly apply an acceleration to your entire ship. That's what I was getting at in the second paragraph of my post. You wouldn't need devices specifically for dampening. This assumes, though, that you can generate an even field such that tidal forces are minimized, so I guess there could still be a place for the dampener described by icekatze.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Arioch wrote:Alex was held in a secured detention area.

The crew accommodations aboard Loroi warships are somewhat Spartan, and similar to that on submarines. Most crewmembers don't have their own private spaces, but instead sleep in the equivalent of bunk beds and share communal living spaces. Only the highest-ranking officers have private cabins.
So, just by way of reference, then...
Aboard Tempest, which of the following would have had their own cabins:
1: Stillstorm (I'm taking this one as a given, as she is literally the highest-ranking officer.)
2: Rune-Laurel (XO)
3: Forest (Ops)
4: Cobalt (Primary FCO)
5: Red-River (Secondary FCO)
6: Beryl (Tactical Analyst)
7: Tempo (Intelligence officer)
8: Razorthorn (Chief Security Officer)
9: Fireblade (Badass/Muscle-In-Chief?)
10: Helm (No name given to my knowledge.)

Aboard the Tempest, there were offices for the commander/flag officer's use. I imagine Stillstorm to be very hands-on and would rather run as many affairs as possible from the bridge itself, but clearly some Loroi commanders like to have a private space for managing the business of running a ship. I would assume that something like a commander's ready-room would be available if the captain chose to make use of it, even on small ships?

Also, out of curiosity, how secure does a brig have to be to hold an Unsheathed in confinement? Or are Unsheathed basically given one warning to behave if and when they get unruly, and then splattered?

Arioch wrote:That assumes that the inertial damping system produces a net thrust on the ship itself, or actually negates the external effects of gravity, neither or which I think is necessarily the case. If they had true antigravity, then even the largest vessels could easily get to and from the surface on maneuvering thrusters. That would be visually awesome in a Lensman mega-space-opera style, but it's contrary to the infrastructure assumptions that I had made thus far; shuttles and space elevators would be largely unnecessary, and most ships would be constructed on the ground instead of in orbital shipyards.

I'll have to think about that.
Well, if your ship has any kind of active gravitic manipulation, you have thrust, weapons and defenses all in one handy package, Schlock Mercenary style. One Tausennegian Ob'enn Thunderhead-class Superfortress could put a decisive end to the Umiak-Loroi war. On the other hand, I'm not sure how you could have active deck gravity and inertial compensation without having active gravitic manipulation.

The best explanation I can see is that the possibility exists, but it's not being seriously researched by any of the combatants. It could also be something the Historians are actively working to prevent anyone else from achieving, because it's a technological leap which secures their own safety - seriously threaten the Historians, and you get literally torn apart by ships which can use gravity as a weapon, defense, and motive force all at once.


That said, there would still be lots of call for orbital dry-docks and space elevators. Just because a thing is possible does not necessarily mean it is cheap, and the industries involved in building a ship might well be more efficient with the ability to leave large portions of them in microgravity and vacuum; damaged ships you wouldn't want to attempt a planetary landing with, etc.

That having been said, if you don't need microgravity, I would assume that, say, a Loroi vessel would easily be capable of landing and taking off from the surface of, say, the Moon, with only its maneuvering thrusters? That might be worth building some landing struts into the smaller vessels.

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