Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Mr Bojangles]

That assumes that the inertial damping system produces a net thrust on the ship itself, or actually negates the external effects of gravity, neither or which I think is necessarily the case. If they had true antigravity, then even the largest vessels could easily get to and from the surface on maneuvering thrusters. That would be visually awesome in a Lensman mega-space-opera style, but it's contrary to the infrastructure assumptions that I had made thus far; shuttles and space elevators would be largely unnecessary, and most ships would be constructed on the ground instead of in orbital shipyards.

I'll have to think about that.

Well, if your ship has any kind of active gravitic manipulation, you have thrust, weapons and defenses all in one handy package, Schlock Mercenary style. One Tausennegian Ob'enn Thunderhead-class Superfortress could put a decisive end to the Umiak-Loroi war. On the other hand, I'm not sure how you could have active deck gravity and inertial compensation without having active gravitic manipulation.

Well, in defense of the Loroi and the Umiak, most of the major species of the Schlockiverse would fall somewhere between TL13 and 14 on the scale that the Outsiderverse uses. The Fleetmind would be somewhere in TL15, maybe 16. The Loroi and Umiak are in early TL11. Not even the Historians would stand much chance against a Thunderhead.

this all assumes internal dampening can even work in a planet's gravity well. it may just act as some sort of partial field drive...i.e. some kind of electromagnetic force that moves every atom on the ship at the same time

That would be an EM field I wouldn't want to be anywhere near...

Yeah, I'm thinking that the average Outsiderverse starcraft costs more than some countries…

Yeah, unless you have a TL10+ economy, they're probably painfully, eye-wateringly expensive.

[Absalom]

Not really. For what would be the contents of the ship is not smeared on it at high acceleration, it is necessary to uniformly accelerate the entire ship including the insides. And to ensure that the ship would be in terms of the crew didn't look like a skyscraper, already need artificial gravity generators. Or magnetic boots. Or floor with suction cups. In short, something, that would allow a plane running in parallel axis acceleration to be floor or ceiling, not the wall.

The first technology will not lift your ship out of the gravity well. But the second - can. In fact, if someone learns to manipulate gravitational fields, I don't understand why he has some other engines.

The general suspicion is that any engine that doesn't use propellant will be roughly as energy-efficient as a photon drive: a.k.a. very very energy inefficient. It seems to usually be assumed that the ideal case is a propellant engine that forces energy from an external source into the propellant, e.g. any of the currently used electric rocket engines.

Incidentally, technically speaking, that's external energy inefficient: the energy innate to the propellant isn't counted in this sort of thing, so propellant engines get to have "hidden" energy. In this sense, chemical rockets are high-efficiency, and ion engines are low-efficiency, while usually they're considered the other way around due to fuel often being the most limited resource.

Not really. For what would be the contents of the ship is not smeared on it at high acceleration, it is necessary to uniformly accelerate the entire ship including the insides. And to ensure that the ship would be in terms of the crew didn't look like a skyscraper, already need artificial gravity generators. Or magnetic boots. Or floor with suction cups. In short, something, that would allow a plane running in parallel axis acceleration to be floor or ceiling, not the wall.

The first technology will not lift your ship out of the gravity well. But the second - can. In fact, if someone learns to manipulate gravitational fields, I don't understand why he has some other engines.

Right. If you can manipulate gravity, you can uniformly apply an acceleration to your entire ship. That's what I was getting at in the second paragraph of my post. You wouldn't need devices specifically for dampening. This assumes, though, that you can generate an even field such that tidal forces are minimized, so I guess there could still be a place for the dampener described by icekatze.

Also importantly, such a field can produce a better experience than active damping, since the "latent damping field" can produce some damping effect before the active systems know to apply a counter-force: the magnitude of the instantaneous damping would be limited to that provided by the system components, but reaction speed would presumably be equal to that of active damping, so you get slightly better results.

Also, the nature of a "damping field" means that it can spread damage from an impact across a larger area: doubtless the energy would be focused wherever it hit, but if you could drag half of the energy across twice the area, and drag the other half across the entire visible portion of the hull segment, then penetrating hits would automatically be both rarer, and less severe. Essentially, a "damping field" gives you a form of energy-based semi-active hull armor.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Here's another few questions I've thought up:

The blue-haired muscle with Fireblade is Reed, right? Since Talon is valuable as a year's survivor combat pilot needed to train a new generation of pilots, presumably Spiral would be as well. So is the shuttle's copilot Spiral?

Are Reed, Talon and Spiral going to be added to the Dramatis Personae?
[e]Also, how big was the graduating class of the High Tide Lowlives?

[Tamri]

Here's another few questions I've thought up:

The blue-haired muscle with Fireblade is Reed, right? Since Talon is valuable as a year's survivor combat pilot needed to train a new generation of pilots, presumably Spiral would be as well. So is the shuttle's copilot Spiral?

Are Reed, Talon and Spiral going to be added to the Dramatis Personae?
[e]Also, how big was the graduating class of the High Tide Lowlives?

Reed is that Soroin who spoke with Alex on the way to the shuttle.

Talon is already there.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Here's another few questions I've thought up:

The blue-haired muscle with Fireblade is Reed, right? Since Talon is valuable as a year's survivor combat pilot needed to train a new generation of pilots, presumably Spiral would be as well. So is the shuttle's copilot Spiral?

Are Reed, Talon and Spiral going to be added to the Dramatis Personae?
[e]Also, how big was the graduating class of the High Tide Lowlives?

Reed is that Soroin who spoke with Alex on the way to the shuttle.

Talon is already there.

Wait, hang on...

I thought this was Reed - the armored Loroi next to Fireblade. She's wearing combat armor and carrying what looks like a pistol and rifle both.

I know that Talon's the officer Tempo told Jardin to speak to WRT starmaps, that's why I figured Spiral was the other pilot on the shuttle; that they'd be keeping them both together, and using the opportunity of sending them both to the sector capital along with Jardin.

[Mr Bojangles]

Wait, hang on...

I thought this was Reed - the armored Loroi next to Fireblade. She's wearing combat armor and carrying what looks like a pistol and rifle both.

I know that Talon's the officer Tempo told Jardin to speak to WRT starmaps, that's why I figured Spiral was the other pilot on the shuttle; that they'd be keeping them both together, and using the opportunity of sending them both to the sector capital along with Jardin.

Yup, that's Reed, and she's the only one that speaks to Alex during the walk to the shuttle (next couple of pages). As for Spiral, who knows? Maybe we'll see her in the coming pages.

[Tamri]

Right. If you can manipulate gravity, you can uniformly apply an acceleration to your entire ship. That's what I was getting at in the second paragraph of my post. You wouldn't need devices specifically for dampening. This assumes, though, that you can generate an even field such that tidal forces are minimized, so I guess there could still be a place for the dampener described by icekatze.

But this is not the fact. You somehow think that artificial gravity and inertia spreader - it is one and the same technology. This is not true. They can lie in one technological branch, but it is different technologies. Control gravity - is, roughly speaking, the ability to create or neutralize gravity wells of varying strength. You can use it, for example, to create a mini-pit near the vessel, in which the ship will fall indefinitely, and therefore infinitely speed up (oh, how infinitely - until enough energy). But it does not help to reverse the effects of the acceleration for the crew. The maximum that can make it across the ship - to create a gravity vector directed perpendicular to the axis of the ship, which will be create starships traditional layout. Of course, if the system fails, the starship instantly turn into a rocket, and the floor will be a wall, perpendicular to the axis of the ship.

Distribution of inertia, on the other hand, will not help move the ship. On the other hand, it's give the crew an exclusive opportunity not to be blurred at acceleration on the bulkheads. But an artificial gravity, this technology also cannot provide. On the third hand, the distribution of inertia seems to me more important technology than control gravity. Because without it, the ships can quickly fly, albeit in a "rocket" layout, but with controlled gravity, but without distribution inertia ships are more traditional interior layout, but its acceleration is not more than 5-10 G, and then in special suits.

[Arioch]

The blue-haired muscle with Fireblade is Reed, right?

Reed is the blue-haired Soroin in combat armor who has been beside Fireblade from page 98 to the present. If that's who you mean, then yes.

Since Talon is valuable as a year's survivor combat pilot needed to train a new generation of pilots, presumably Spiral would be as well. So is the shuttle's copilot Spiral?

Signs point to... yes. She's in the very next page, so I'm not giving much away there.

Are Reed, Talon and Spiral going to be added to the Dramatis Personae?

Talon is already in the Dramatis Personae. Others may or may not be added depending on whether they become significant characters, as we are introduced to them. (Spoilers!)

Talon and Ashrain got a head start because they're pretty major characters.

Also, how big was the graduating class of the High Tide Lowlives?

About 50.

[ShadowDragon8685]

The blue-haired muscle with Fireblade is Reed, right?

Reed is the blue-haired Soroin in combat armor who has been beside Fireblade from page 98 to the present. If that's who you mean, then yes.

Oh, I thought she was Teidar... I think I've been under a misapprehension.
I thought Soroin were "ship staff," and Teidar were Marines. Are Teidar exclusively the Unsheathed, and Soroin can be non-Unsheathed soldiers?

I have made a gigantic derp in my story, then.

Since Talon is valuable as a year's survivor combat pilot needed to train a new generation of pilots, presumably Spiral would be as well. So is the shuttle's copilot Spiral?

Signs point to... yes.

Ah, I figured it would be. I kind of figure they both have to be like, the biggest badasses; just, packed with giant neutronium ovaries, to have survived the kind of meat-grinder that could wipe out their entire class save them in a year. If this were a different war, with an enemy less prone to Macross Missile Massacre no-fun industrial overrunning tactics, I kind of imagine they'd be the Top Gun rockstars of the show, kicking ass - like, all of the ass whilst every Ace Combat soundtracks ever composed blasted in the background.

I bet they have very strong opinions about the Umiak combat tactics, and the phrase "coward" features very highly, along with a strong of vulgarities that would have a Longshoreman saying "Hey, you wanna keep it down, there's sailors in here!"

Are Reed, Talon and Spiral going to be added to the Dramatis Personae?

Talon is already in the Dramatis Personae. Others may or may not be added depending on whether they become significant characters, as we are introduced to them. (Spoilers!)

Ack, derp. I knew Talon was in the DP - I have it open! I just meant Reed and Spiral.

Also, how big was the graduating class of the High Tide Lowlives?

About 50.

And they're all gone save Spiral and Talon? Just the ones attached to Strike Group 51?

[Arioch]

Oh, I thought she was Teidar... I think I've been under a misapprehension.
I thought Soroin were "ship staff," and Teidar were Marines. Are Teidar exclusively the Unsheathed, and Soroin can be non-Unsheathed soldiers?

Teidar and Unsheathed are the same thing. There are not very many of them, especially at this point in the war; most Loroi infantry and marines consist of Soroin soldiers with a small number of Teidar officers. There are a few special forces units that are all Teidar, but those are rare.

I bet they have very strong opinions about the Umiak combat tactics, and the phrase "coward" features very highly, along with a strong of vulgarities that would have a Longshoreman saying "Hey, you wanna keep it down, there's sailors in here!"

Say what you like about the Umiak -- and the Loroi could say plenty -- but I don't think "coward" is one of the terms they would use.

Also, how big was the graduating class of the High Tide Lowlives?

About 50.

And they're all gone save Spiral and Talon? Just the ones attached to Strike Group 51?

Nah, the squadron was 20, and not all from the same diral.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Oh, I thought she was Teidar... I think I've been under a misapprehension.
I thought Soroin were "ship staff," and Teidar were Marines. Are Teidar exclusively the Unsheathed, and Soroin can be non-Unsheathed soldiers?

Teidar and Unsheathed are the same thing. There are not very many of them, especially at this point in the war; most Loroi infantry and marines consist of Soroin soldiers with a small number of Teidar officers. There are a few special forces units that are all Teidar, but those are rare.

Oooooh. I understand now.

I have erred significantly, then.

I bet they have very strong opinions about the Umiak combat tactics, and the phrase "coward" features very highly, along with a strong of vulgarities that would have a Longshoreman saying "Hey, you wanna keep it down, there's sailors in here!"

Say what you like about the Umiak -- and the Loroi could say plenty -- but I don't think "coward" is one of the terms they would use.

Most probably wouldn't, but a fighter jock faced with an enemy that won't come out and face her fighter-to-fighter, but rides around exclusively in gunboats and bigger vessels cruising in behind a wall of missiles? Never affording the opportunity to be considered a fighter Ace, a Top Gun, relegating them to basically being Loroi-piloted point-defense drones?

I could see a fighter jock being massively pissed off by that.

About 50.

And they're all gone save Spiral and Talon? Just the ones attached to Strike Group 51?

Nah, the squadron was 20, and not all from the same diral.

Ooooh, I misunderstood. I thought it was the High Tide Lowlives who had been wiped out down to Talon and Spiral, not their squadron from Tempest.


[e]Also, another question just occurred to me now, and somehow I'm sure you have an answer in your notes, Arioch.
Who was Tempest - not the ship, but the figure the ship is named for, depicted in a rather badass mosiac? I reckon she was probably an historical figure to the Loroi, and probably had a rather herculean myth built around her? How much do they know about her historicity, and how much is probably distorted through the retelling?

[Mr Bojangles]

Right. If you can manipulate gravity, you can uniformly apply an acceleration to your entire ship. That's what I was getting at in the second paragraph of my post. You wouldn't need devices specifically for dampening. This assumes, though, that you can generate an even field such that tidal forces are minimized, so I guess there could still be a place for the dampener described by icekatze.

But this is not the fact. You somehow think that artificial gravity and inertia spreader - it is one and the same technology. This is not true. They can lie in one technological branch, but it is different technologies. Control gravity - is, roughly speaking, the ability to create or neutralize gravity wells of varying strength. You can use it, for example, to create a mini-pit near the vessel, in which the ship will fall indefinitely, and therefore infinitely speed up (oh, how infinitely - until enough energy). But it does not help to reverse the effects of the acceleration for the crew. The maximum that can make it across the ship - to create a gravity vector directed perpendicular to the axis of the ship, which will be create starships traditional layout. Of course, if the system fails, the starship instantly turn into a rocket, and the floor will be a wall, perpendicular to the axis of the ship.

Distribution of inertia, on the other hand, will not help move the ship. On the other hand, it's give the crew an exclusive opportunity not to be blurred at acceleration on the bulkheads. But an artificial gravity, this technology also cannot provide. On the third hand, the distribution of inertia seems to me more important technology than control gravity. Because without it, the ships can quickly fly, albeit in a "rocket" layout, but with controlled gravity, but without distribution inertia ships are more traditional interior layout, but its acceleration is not more than 5-10 G, and then in special suits.

I think you're misinterpreting what I said. In my initial post about inertial dampening, I hypothesized that the dampener worked by applying an equal counter-acceleration to an external acceleration. In this way, the crew wouldn't be turned into smears on the walls. Also, as gravity is equivalent to an acceleration, you would need only direct such a system towards a source of gravity to make your ship float.

icekatze pointed out that a dampener could work by equalizing the application of an external acceleration to a ship. This would effectively turn the ship, and all its contents, into an idealized rigid body, with every molecule experiencing the same force simultaneously. In this way, no inertial effects would be felt, but unlike my initial idea, it wouldn't allow a ship to freely float in a gravity well. I think this is the idea you're getting at with your "spreader."

What the post you responded to was getting at is that a uniform gravitational field applies a uniform acceleration to anything within it. No inertial effects would be felt as everything would experience the same force at the same time. That's just how gravity works. However, gravity propagates at the speed of light, so depending on your ship, how you're generating the gravity, and how you're moving, it's possible to get tidal forces, so there still could be a need for a "spreader."

In your second paragraph, it sounds like you're describing inertial reduction. This would allow a ship to accelerate faster for the same amount of force, as you say. However, it could run into the issue that everything in the ship would also have its inertia reduced. This would include the crew, so beyond having to worry about ship acceleration, you would also have to worry about how their biological systems responded.

[icekatze]

hi hi

From what Arioch says about inertial dampeners reducing the affected matter's inertia, I think it may be one of those situations where the biological systems of those inside the ship come into question. Reduction of inertial mass may very well be part of how the "semi-reactionless," drives of the ships are able to produce such tremendous effective exhaust velocities.

As for crew considerations, perhaps there are some kinds of dimensional physics at work. Like, the area on the inside of the inertial bubble is at something like a higher false-vacuum state or something. (Although, it would probably be something that would be less catastrophic for the contents when turned on and off.)

[Tamri]

SpoilerShow

I think you're misinterpreting what I said. In my initial post about inertial dampening, I hypothesized that the dampener worked by applying an equal counter-acceleration to an external acceleration. In this way, the crew wouldn't be turned into smears on the walls. Also, as gravity is equivalent to an acceleration, you would need only direct such a system towards a source of gravity to make your ship float.

icekatze pointed out that a dampener could work by equalizing the application of an external acceleration to a ship. This would effectively turn the ship, and all its contents, into an idealized rigid body, with every molecule experiencing the same force simultaneously. In this way, no inertial effects would be felt, but unlike my initial idea, it wouldn't allow a ship to freely float in a gravity well. I think this is the idea you're getting at with your "spreader."

What the post you responded to was getting at is that a uniform gravitational field applies a uniform acceleration to anything within it. No inertial effects would be felt as everything would experience the same force at the same time. That's just how gravity works. However, gravity propagates at the speed of light, so depending on your ship, how you're generating the gravity, and how you're moving, it's possible to get tidal forces, so there still could be a need for a "spreader."

In your second paragraph, it sounds like you're describing inertial reduction. This would allow a ship to accelerate faster for the same amount of force, as you say. However, it could run into the issue that everything in the ship would also have its inertia reduced. This would include the crew, so beyond having to worry about ship acceleration, you would also have to worry about how their biological systems responded.

No, it's not the same thing. Gravity Drive - a way to get ACCELERATION. Where, how and how much is applied - is details, not the essence. Distribution or "quenching" inertia - it's just a way to evenly DISTRIBUTE or COMPENSATE the acceleration imparted to the body so that the object accelerated absolutely evenly. In the case of the ship accelerates, at the presence of the compensator engines don't accelerate themselves, and then design and, finally, of any of organics the inside, but, at once, the ship as a whole (including of organics).

Acceleration - this is not only our thrust engines. There are for example the centrifugal force that is fully capable wipe up the floor all of the located on the bow of the ship with a sharp turn, brake accelerate and all sorts of stuff. Roughly speaking, if your ship with gravitational propulsion without compensator on 5 G try to turn sharply - his crew turn into mincemeat. And if you have to turn the compensator can be any figure - the crew didn't even notice them. The only question is energy.

I don't believe that the attempt to reduce the weight of the ship, which must be moved in order to save energy and fuel - it is a good idea. As hinted at logic and the laws of conservation, even when this would be possible, it is likely to require at least as much energy, how much we would need that would simply accelerate this mass in some way. If no more.

[Absalom]

Teidar and Unsheathed are the same thing. There are not very many of them, especially at this point in the war; most Loroi infantry and marines consist of Soroin soldiers with a small number of Teidar officers. There are a few special forces units that are all Teidar, but those are rare.

Oooooh. I understand now.

I have erred significantly, then.

Eh, the idea that the Umiak even had an opportunity to brainwash that many and well-distributed of Loroi was dubious itself, so no big change. Besides, assuming that all three of them were Teidar is understandable, I did it myself.

Most probably wouldn't, but a fighter jock faced with an enemy that won't come out and face her fighter-to-fighter, but rides around exclusively in gunboats and bigger vessels cruising in behind a wall of missiles? Never affording the opportunity to be considered a fighter Ace, a Top Gun, relegating them to basically being Loroi-piloted point-defense drones?

I could see a fighter jock being massively pissed off by that.

You make too many assumptions about Loroi culture: given the existence of Teidar and Mizol, it would be ill-advised to assume that the "fighter ace" concept developed the same way among the Loroi as among humans. Besides, it's like hunting mamoths with just spears: the bigger the target, the more the bragging rights. Think of them less like knights dueling in tournaments, and more like whalers hunting sperm whales that have a taste for seals, or maybe even spear fishermen hunting Great White Sharks.

I don't believe that the attempt to reduce the weight of the ship, which must be moved in order to save energy and fuel - it is a good idea. As hinted at logic and the laws of conservation, even when this would be possible, it is likely to require at least as much energy, how much we would need that would simply accelerate this mass in some way. If no more.

It might be useful if you force the mass into the fuel.

[icekatze]

hi hi

With a typical reaction drive, the speed of light is the absolute maximum exhaust velocity. Even at the theoretical maximum, you would need a relatively high mass ratio to get the kind of delta V budget that Loroi and Umiak warships have. If you want to bypass that limitation, some kind of super-science is a necessity.

Also, centrifugal force is a fictitious force, and it is the exact same kind of effect that happens when someone in a rocket accelerates quickly in a straight line as well. Gravity is a real force, and as a real force, it can accelerate any mass that it interacts with, and since gravitational waves propagate at the speed of light, it is much faster at distributing force than intermolecular interactions. (in spite of the fact that gravity is a relatively weak force.)

(On the topic of Loroi fighter pilots, they probably know they are not the top dogs of space combat, and the Loroi probably don't maintain that kind of fiction in general. If anything, the Umiak are probably known for their suicidal lack of fear than for their cowardice.)

[ShadowDragon8685]

Eh, the idea that the Umiak even had an opportunity to brainwash that many and well-distributed of Loroi was dubious itself, so no big change. Besides, assuming that all three of them were Teidar is understandable, I did it myself.

They do seem to have a penchant for pulling plot-token-screwing tricks out of their cloaca, don't they? As if a huge industrial base and an utter disregard for life wasn't enough...

You make too many assumptions about Loroi culture: given the existence of Teidar and Mizol, it would be ill-advised to assume that the "fighter ace" concept developed the same way among the Loroi as among humans. Besides, it's like hunting mamoths with just spears: the bigger the target, the more the bragging rights. Think of them less like knights dueling in tournaments, and more like whalers hunting sperm whales that have a taste for seals, or maybe even spear fishermen hunting Great White Sharks.

That'd make it more like Moby Dick, then - only, Moby won't give them the fair chance to be speared that the Delrias gave them, he just dumps an endless torrent of munitions and point-defenses at them, the cowards. Net result is still the same: No opportunity for the fighter pilot to go and gain glory, they might as well be remote-controlled external point-defense drones.

[Mr Bojangles]

SpoilerShow

I think you're misinterpreting what I said. In my initial post about inertial dampening, I hypothesized that the dampener worked by applying an equal counter-acceleration to an external acceleration. In this way, the crew wouldn't be turned into smears on the walls. Also, as gravity is equivalent to an acceleration, you would need only direct such a system towards a source of gravity to make your ship float.

icekatze pointed out that a dampener could work by equalizing the application of an external acceleration to a ship. This would effectively turn the ship, and all its contents, into an idealized rigid body, with every molecule experiencing the same force simultaneously. In this way, no inertial effects would be felt, but unlike my initial idea, it wouldn't allow a ship to freely float in a gravity well. I think this is the idea you're getting at with your "spreader."

What the post you responded to was getting at is that a uniform gravitational field applies a uniform acceleration to anything within it. No inertial effects would be felt as everything would experience the same force at the same time. That's just how gravity works. However, gravity propagates at the speed of light, so depending on your ship, how you're generating the gravity, and how you're moving, it's possible to get tidal forces, so there still could be a need for a "spreader."

In your second paragraph, it sounds like you're describing inertial reduction. This would allow a ship to accelerate faster for the same amount of force, as you say. However, it could run into the issue that everything in the ship would also have its inertia reduced. This would include the crew, so beyond having to worry about ship acceleration, you would also have to worry about how their biological systems responded.

No, it's not the same thing. Gravity Drive - a way to get ACCELERATION. Where, how and how much is applied - is details, not the essence. Distribution or "quenching" inertia - it's just a way to evenly DISTRIBUTE or COMPENSATE the acceleration imparted to the body so that the object accelerated absolutely evenly. In the case of the ship accelerates, at the presence of the compensator engines don't accelerate themselves, and then design and, finally, of any of organics the inside, but, at once, the ship as a whole (including of organics).

Acceleration - this is not only our thrust engines. There are for example the centrifugal force that is fully capable wipe up the floor all of the located on the bow of the ship with a sharp turn, brake accelerate and all sorts of stuff. Roughly speaking, if your ship with gravitational propulsion without compensator on 5 G try to turn sharply - his crew turn into mincemeat. And if you have to turn the compensator can be any figure - the crew didn't even notice them. The only question is energy.

I don't believe that the attempt to reduce the weight of the ship, which must be moved in order to save energy and fuel - it is a good idea. As hinted at logic and the laws of conservation, even when this would be possible, it is likely to require at least as much energy, how much we would need that would simply accelerate this mass in some way. If no more.

I'm not saying they are the same thing. I'm pretty sure that I said my initial idea was one thing and then icekatze presented me with a new idea. So, two different ideas for inertial dampening: one that explicitly applies counter-acceleration (gravitic) and another that turns the ship into an effective rigid body (no idea what physical force you'd base this on).

The only other thing I said is that if something is acted upon by a uniform gravity field it won't experience inertial effects. That object will still have inertia, but since every component is being acted on equally and simultaneously it won't feel any differential acceleration. If the field were to suddenly point in a different direction, nothing would be felt as the field is uniform: everything in the object experiences the same thing at the same time. So, when in such a field, an inertial dampener wouldn't be necessary.

That'd make it more like Moby Dick, then - only, Moby won't give them the fair chance to be speared that the Delrias gave them, he just dumps an endless torrent of munitions and point-defenses at them, the cowards. Net result is still the same: No opportunity for the fighter pilot to go and gain glory, they might as well be remote-controlled external point-defense drones.

When you have the PD capabilities, range and main firepower of Loroi and Umiak warships, pilots don't add much. There's definitely no glory to be had when you can be swatted out of space when you're still the better part of a light-second away from your intended target. We're actually getting there now in the real world, so...

[ShadowDragon8685]

That'd make it more like Moby Dick, then - only, Moby won't give them the fair chance to be speared that the Delrias gave them, he just dumps an endless torrent of munitions and point-defenses at them, the cowards. Net result is still the same: No opportunity for the fighter pilot to go and gain glory, they might as well be remote-controlled external point-defense drones.

When you have the PD capabilities, range and main firepower of Loroi and Umiak warships, pilots don't add much. There's definitely no glory to be had when you can be swatted out of space when you're still the better part of a light-second away from your intended target. We're actually getting there now in the real world, so...

Right, but that's my point - there was that glory to be hard during the last Big One that Loroi combat pilots engaged in - the Delrias campaign, when the pilots were the decisive factor.

So to be a Loroi combat fighter pilot in 2160 has got to be like being a human hopeful raised on a steady diet of Top Gun and Ace Combat, only to learn that one of the USAF's last real Top Gun pilots has just been completely fucking trashed in a complete shutdown by a software algorithym that can run on a goddamn Raspberry Pi, even when they castrated the AI by greatly reducing its' simulated aircraft's capabilities.

Which has gotta be galling, especially if you are a bona fide starfighter pilot badass, the kind who would be an Ace in the last war, having trashed tens of Delrias fighters and harpooned a double-fistful of big pocking capital ships.

[icekatze]

hi hi

I'm not sure if it is fair to say that fighters were "the" decisive factor in the Delrias campaign. Insider mentions that they were "an" important factor, but the Delrias had large ships with good beam weaponry, an area where fighters are inherently lacking. It is my impression that the Loroi won the Delrias campaign also because they were ready for it.

Although I think the original quote was lost during forum moves, I recall reading a post from Arioch which mentions that the Splinter Wars were the last time when the Loroi used fighters in a primary fighting role, and that it was in part due to the somewhat ritualized nature of intra-Loroi conflict that made fighters popular, part because the Loroi tech level at the time was much lower than it is presently, and part because fighters work better when you have the overwhelming numbers advantage. The Splinter Wars ended 758 years prior to the Bellarmine incident, and I think it is safe to say that it has passed out of living memory.

(If I am not mistaken, it was more a matter of the fact that the Loroi were really good at spoons, rather than the fact that spoons are better for digging than shovels.)