Well of Souls Forums

Disclaimer: I understand that this is fiction and the author of the story doesn't have to provide any mechanics at all.
Also: arioch may have something in mind but doesn't wish to share because it may derail the story by too early a revelation. However, I would still like to ask.

I find myself wondering how "psionics" would work in the outsider universe.

Something along the electromagnetic spectrum? Is it possibly Analogous to "chi"?

Is it actually the ability to manipulate a some kind of exotic subatomic particle?

That sort of thing.

IIRC it was meant to very much be a black box sort of science. They know just enough to make it work, and to construct things like psionic amplifiers for Unsheafed and Farseers. Beyond that, it continues to defy easy investigation or categorisation.

The article on Psychokinesis does discuss this subject a bit, if you haven't already seen it.
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/forum ... nesis.html

Roughly, the concept is that intelligent creatures have an abstract "mind" which has some physical quality beyond that of the matter in their bodies, and in psi users this "mind" can interact with the physical universe in unusual ways. The story requirement is that psi should not be reproducible by machines (at least, at the tech level of the major combatants), and so exactly what makes it work must be a bit mysterious.

Thank you. It makes me think maybe humans potentially have sanzai too.

Arioch wrote:The article on Psychokinesis does discuss this subject a bit, if you haven't already seen it.
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/forum ... nesis.html

hmmmm, I must have missed or overlooked this part when I first read: "....A variety of side effects can result from amplification, again varying by individual, including headaches, fatigue, nausea, temporary impairment of vision, or reduction in effective PK skill. In extreme cases of prolonged amplification, lesions or plaques can form in the brain, resulting in seizures, permanent loss of vision, psychosis, or even death." I wonder if Fireblade's apparent lack of ability to speak trade language is a side effect of her PK amplifier? It has never been explained, and I had assumed she didn't want to "lower" herself by verbal communication.

hi hi

Fireblade's personality is something that's been discussed in the past. Assuming any of the past forum posts are still accurate, I think a good part of Fireblade's 'strong silent type,' demeanor has to do with her traumatic past experiences. She survived an Umiak occupation when she was young, and survived the loss of two ships during her career, which would certainly make me cold and distant if I were in her shoes.

I mean, not literally in her shoes, like Alex is...

thicket wrote:hmmmm, I must have missed or overlooked this part when I first read: "....A variety of side effects can result from amplification, again varying by individual, including headaches, fatigue, nausea, temporary impairment of vision, or reduction in effective PK skill. In extreme cases of prolonged amplification, lesions or plaques can form in the brain, resulting in seizures, permanent loss of vision, psychosis, or even death." I wonder if Fireblade's apparent lack of ability to speak trade language is a side effect of her PK amplifier? It has never been explained, and I had assumed she didn't want to "lower" herself by verbal communication.

That's explained in the Loroi society section (?), her caste only speaks when they're going to kill you. So if she talks to him Alex pretty much screwed. Her cold demeanor though?

Speaking of Fireblade, what is the current consensus regarding the apparent violation of the Third Law of Motion by Loroi telekinesis? As seen on Page 45: http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider045.html.

Edit: I reread the psychokinesis article linked in Arioch's post above. If the human Lotai ability (is Alex the only human who has it?) works by blocking access to the "other place" that Loroi mental powers come from, is it possible that Alex could learn to block not just telepathy, but also PK?

ewaggin wrote:If the human Lotai ability (is Alex the only human who has it?) works by blocking access to the "other place" that Loroi mental powers come from, is it possible that Alex could learn to block not just telepathy, but also PK?

Only if he were directly targeted. You could still use physical objects, even the air around him, to physically manipulate him. Alternatively if he somehow became an AoE PK damper, he could still be affected by PK hurled objects, conservation of momentum and all that. However, it does not seem as though either will happen, as humans are simply closed off rather than counteractive.

Imbrooge wrote:
That's explained in the Loroi society section (?), her caste only speaks when they're going to kill you. So if she talks to him Alex pretty much screwed. Her cold demeanor though?

SpoilerShow

Alex yelling can be misinterpreted as a challenge.

Canonically it hasn't been stated as to why the Teidar don't speak. Could be for a variety of reasons, I elected to use the 'Teidar only speak the truth' angle mainly because of the 'words are tools of deception' quote by Stillstorm who represents a hardline traditionalist part of the Loroi culture.

My thinkining was thus: Would the Deinar Loroi, who are described as very conservative by Loroi standards, tolerate Teidar being deceiptful in anything other than war?

My guess is that Fireblade will talk either when battle or duty demands it of her.

dragoongfa wrote:

Imbrooge wrote:
That's explained in the Loroi society section (?), her caste only speaks when they're going to kill you. So if she talks to him Alex pretty much screwed. Her cold demeanor though?

SpoilerShow

Alex yelling can be misinterpreted as a challenge.

Canonically it hasn't been stated as to why the Teidar don't speak. Could be for a variety of reasons, I elected to use the 'Teidar only speak the truth' angle mainly because of the 'words are tools of deception' quote by Stillstorm who represents a hardline traditionalist part of the Loroi culture.

My thinkining was thus: Would the Deinar Loroi, who are described as very conservative by Loroi standards, tolerate Teidar being deceiptful in anything other than war?

My guess is that Fireblade will talk either when battle or duty demands it of her.

I found the bit I was looking for, "In some cases, such as the Teidar bands, spoken words are prohibited except in challenge."
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/forum ... rites.html Teidar simply do not talk, unless it's for a fight.

It doesn't state the reason and that bit covers the diral phase, not a full adult with the responsibilities of a full fledged warrior.

dragoongfa wrote:

Imbrooge wrote:


My guess is that Fireblade will talk either when battle or duty demands it of her.

Or when stuck alone with an alien with a permanent lotai which makes telepathic communication impossible, in a fubar situation.
What are the chances of such thing happening?

In page 101, Beryl mentions a 'cultural selan '. What does that particular Loroi word mean? I assume it's something to the effect of 'practises/mores/codes/taboos'? Or is there a particular reason why the word was not translated?

harlequin2262 wrote:In page 101, Beryl mentions a 'cultural selan '. What does that particular Loroi word mean? I assume it's something to the effect of 'practises/mores/codes/taboos'? Or is there a particular reason why the word was not translated?

I think you mean page 44

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider044.html

And the lexicon here has that word as 'taboo'. The reason as to why it isn't translated, that I think is down to let it be shown that Alex doesn't know the trade lexicon of the Loroi. He was taught Trade from the Orgus who were using the Historian lexicon iirc. The Loroi have several words of their own.

Oh, damn, I didn't check the lexicon first. Cheers, Dragoon.

dragoongfa wrote:

harlequin2262 wrote:In page 101, Beryl mentions a 'cultural selan '. What does that particular Loroi word mean? I assume it's something to the effect of 'practises/mores/codes/taboos'? Or is there a particular reason why the word was not translated?

I think you mean page 44

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider044.html

And the lexicon here has that word as 'taboo'. The reason as to why it isn't translated, that I think is down to let it be shown that Alex doesn't know the trade lexicon of the Loroi. He was taught Trade from the Orgus who were using the Historian lexicon iirc. The Loroi have several words of their own.

Even if the words are exactly the same, culture effected by historical context have it's own effect. A practical example: The concept of a "slave ship". To us this brings up the horrors of trade in human lives. For another culture, not connected to this historical context, especially a high technology one, a "slave ship" could be a ship set to follow another ship automatically with no need for a crew of it'so own. It is even possible that this is how loroi supply convoys are done if someone wants to use this concept in a fan fiction. Or perhaps the or orgus does.

thicket wrote:

Arioch wrote:The article on Psychokinesis does discuss this subject a bit, if you haven't already seen it.
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/forum ... nesis.html

hmmmm, I must have missed or overlooked this part when I first read: "....A variety of side effects can result from amplification, again varying by individual, including headaches, fatigue, nausea, temporary impairment of vision, or reduction in effective PK skill. In extreme cases of prolonged amplification, lesions or plaques can form in the brain, resulting in seizures, permanent loss of vision, psychosis, or even death." I wonder if Fireblade's apparent lack of ability to speak trade language is a side effect of her PK amplifier? It has never been explained, and I had assumed she didn't want to "lower" herself by verbal communication.

This is what you get for manufacturing amplifiers without knowing why they work. A suggestion, let the wearer touch it with finger somewhere to activate it when extra power is needed then shut it of again to minimise exposure. An automated shutoff function could be included for those that tend to forget to shut them of after use. The device simply goes into sleep mode after a while. A telekinesis user could perhaps use a telekinetic on/off switch.

If they even need power.
We do not know how they work, maybe it's just some kind of harmonics device, thus amplifying the tele* powe through harmonised waves, similar to lasers......

*=-kinesis;-pathic,...

Krulle wrote:If they even need power.
We do not know how they work, maybe it's just some kind of harmonics device, thus amplifying the tele* powe through harmonised waves, similar to lasers......

*=-kinesis;-pathic,...

In that case I guess that you would have to mechanically "break" them, do something to make them non functional until needed. A classical break open shotgun is a good analogy. Carry the the gun in open mode for maximum security and close it only when you are about to take aim.