Well of Souls Forums

White wrote:Do you have an idea of what the moons of Deinar look like? Their sizes, orbital periods etc...?

Something different. On pg. 115 (http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider115.html) Alex noted that her hand was cool (because of the Loroi's lower body temperature), but the sensation of her getting into his head was missing.

That makes me wonder:

Is attempting to establish mental contact on touch a reflex like breathing, something that happens subconsciously but can be 'held in' when expending a conscious thought on it (like holding your breath) or is it something a Loroi would have to consciously do it?

That answer is interesting insofar that every Loroi Alex had contact to either actively tried to get a glimpse into his head (or just saw it as a challenge whether the human Lotai is really as impenetrable as it's said to be) or on the other hand was simply sort of careless and Talon was the first one to actively take note of it (because she might have heard that it makes Alex discomfortable and she tries to avoid it).

Though, given that Loroi do usually avoid to touch each other and the only times where they actively touched him was either when they did try to get into his head or in a sort of emergency(*) I do tend to believe that their touch telepathy is some sort of involuntary reflex that can be suppressed when being prepared for it.

(*) Beryl sort of doesn't count. She does seem to have little regard about his private space and I'm sure she would not be above trying again and again and again to pick his brain...

novius wrote:Is attempting to establish mental contact on touch a reflex like breathing, something that happens subconsciously but can be 'held in' when expending a conscious thought on it (like holding your breath) or is it something a Loroi would have to consciously do it?

That answer is interesting insofar that every Loroi Alex had contact to either actively tried to get a glimpse into his head (or just saw it as a challenge whether the human Lotai is really as impenetrable as it's said to be) or on the other hand was simply sort of careless and Talon was the first one to actively take note of it (because she might have heard that it makes Alex discomfortable and she tries to avoid it).

Though, given that Loroi do usually avoid to touch each other and the only times where they actively touched him was either when they did try to get into his head or in a sort of emergency(*) I do tend to believe that their touch telepathy is some sort of involuntary reflex that can be suppressed when being prepared for it.

Between Loroi, the telepathic touch contact is essentially automatic, as if it was an electrical connection. One (or both) of the participants can decline to communicate across the connection, or even block the other from communicating across the connection, but the connection is still there.

However, Alex is not Loroi, and so the rules are different. Unfortunately, no one yet knows what those rules are.

I thought the sensation Alex was getting was telekinetic rather than telepathic?

CJSF

That was from the ol' Revolver Teidar guest treatment. Psychic waterboarding, I think was the term Arioch used.

Besides that, any skin to skin contact he had to a Loroi was either at the very first start - when they did try to get into his head, forcefully - and then maybe sort of accidental. Talon might have been the very first Loroi who actually touched him voluntarily and without the intent to peek into Alex's head or rather with the intent not to do it.

Judging from the brief interaction, she does strike me as little Miss Manners. Friendly, amicable, but rather circumspect about any possible social blunder. Scuttlebutt may have already told her that Alex can feel the attempts to make telepathic contact and it's not quite a pleasant experience for him. So it could have been a conscious effort on her part to not cause him any discomfort.

cacambo43 wrote:I thought the sensation Alex was getting was telekinetic rather than telepathic?

The initial sensation of contact, described by Alex as akin to "electrostatic shock," was telepathic. The subsequent seizure-like pressure was telekinetic.

It's not all in one place that is easily postable, but is spread across multiple hundred-plus page documents. And no, the 788-page main notes document is not suitable for public consumption.

Guess I'll just have to keep pestering you with questions then, .

Speaking of which, do Loroi have to learn to speak telepathically? Or can a feral Loroi talk with anyone as well as anyone else?

And do Loroi telekinetics learn powers such as heating up objects and controlling electricity, or does a particular telekinetic need to be born with the power to be able to interact with electricity and so on?

White wrote:Speaking of which, do Loroi have to learn to speak telepathically? Or can a feral Loroi talk with anyone as well as anyone else?

Loroi infants typically become telepathically active before they are born (but they don't have much to say). The sophistication of telepathic communication increases as the mind matures, but it's not quite like a learned language. Loroi from completely different cultures can communicate telepathically without problem.

White wrote:And do Loroi telekinetics learn powers such as heating up objects and controlling electricity, or does a particular telekinetic need to be born with the power to be able to interact with electricity and so on?

It's all the same power, just different skills. However, some telekinetics will find some skills easier than others, and not all will be able to learn all of the available skills.

So maybe I'm treading on old ground here but does that mean that knowledge (and to some degree basic skills) among loroi is more imprinted than educated?

That would explain why they can reach adulthood (I assume mentally) so quickly even though their society is technologically advanced and sophisticated.

It's an old question that I have seen some times.

The gist of the matter is that telepathic teaching is highly efficient, to have the knowledge sent to you mentally is far quicker than just having it visually shown or verbally communicated to. However this doesn't translate to instant comprehension of said knowledge. A telepathic teacher has to make sure that their students comprehend what they were just taught before continuing.

A Listel knows a LOT of diverse scientific knowledge and is intelligent enough to comprehend all of it. However this doesn't mean that the Soroin or Teidar she will send said knowledge will be able to comprehend it.

In short: Telepathic teaching is quick and efficient but that doesn't mean that it is merely a 'copy and paste' of information. Being able to comprehend said information is key.

Also Iirc Loroi are taught what they need in order to fulfill their initial caste duties, for some castes this is not much time; fresh our of the academy Soroin or Teidar for example who are very young by Loroi standards. Other castes however, Listel, Doranzer and etc, are having longer official training periods.

hi hi

I was thinking about Loroi characters the other day, and I had an odd thought. Who mourns for those lost in battle? I know that members of a Loroi's diral form a close knit group that would almost certainly mourn the passing of one of their own. But if I remember correctly, Loroi don't really form close family ties as we would recognize them.

If a ship full of rookies blew up, and everyone onboard was lost, would there be anyone left that would have known a member of the crew closely?

icekatze wrote:hi hi

I was thinking about Loroi characters the other day, and I had an odd thought. Who mourns for those lost in battle? I know that members of a Loroi's diral form a close knit group that would almost certainly mourn the passing of one of their own. But if I remember correctly, Loroi don't really form close family ties as we would recognize them.

If a ship full of rookies blew up, and everyone onboard was lost, would there be anyone left that would have known a member of the crew closely?

Loroi warriors do have extended family, and they will also often form close ties with others in their adult units. But no, there is no civilian nuclear family that will be devastated by the loss of each warrior... which is a useful thing, for a warrior culture.

Arioch wrote: [...] there is no civilian nuclear family that will be devastated by the loss of each warrior... which is a useful thing, for a warrior culture.

Are there any particular downsides that the Loroi are faced with as a result of this limited impact that loss and grief have?

CF2 wrote:

Arioch wrote: [...] there is no civilian nuclear family that will be devastated by the loss of each warrior... which is a useful thing, for a warrior culture.

Are there any particular downsides that the Loroi are faced with as a result of this limited impact that loss and grief have?

I don't think I would say that loss has a limited impact... it's still going to affect the lost soldier's friends and family, but they will all be military.

There are certainly some drawbacks to segregating the civilian and military populations. Chief among them, I think, is that the segregated civilian population has less personal attachment to the war effort can be a downside as well, as you may not get the same level of commitment and creativity that you might get from a more engaged work force. You also lose the flexibility of being able to draw upon civilians reinforcements in wartime and being able to return combatants to productive civilians jobs in peacetime.

hi hi

Arioch wrote:... which is a useful thing, for a warrior culture.

I can certainly see the usefulness. Although, I would think that it could maybe lead to some sort of drop in morale, occasionally. At least with humans, worrying that there will be no one to remember them or carry on after them is a common theme when pondering their own mortality. For Loroi, with their telepathic storytelling in particular, I wonder if wanting someone to remember them would be an even stronger urge.

Ah, never mind me. It was just an errant musing.

Oh, the Listel-on-duty will remember you.
And I presume, she will be rotated rather quickly off the ship, so that hher tactical knowledge of how her ships survived can be passed in the academies....

So, with that many eidetic persons around you, you will be remembered in the living archives...

Krulle wrote:Oh, the Listel-on-duty will remember you.
And I presume, she will be rotated rather quickly off the ship, so that hher tactical knowledge of how her ships survived can be passed in the academies....

So, with that many eidetic persons around you, you will be remembered in the living archives...

Being memorized isn't quite the same as being *remembered*, if that makes any sense. But clearly there is some link - after all, they have some pretty potent legends, like that of Tempest. That sort of myth-making has to have a path of remembrance in it somehow (beyond regurgitation).

CJSF

cacambo43 wrote:But clearly there is some link - after all, they have some pretty potent legends, like that of Tempest. That sort of myth-making has to have a path of remembrance in it somehow (beyond regurgitation).

Though I'm not sure if Tempest's story is that of a defeated hero, it seems more likely to be of the triumphant hero sort, purely because naming a ship after a hero that is defeated may have some negative effect on crew mentality. In which case, living legends are a little different from memories of the departed.

Do the Loroi have any sort of Genova Convention, or at least some limits like "don't massacre civilians" or "don't kill children ". Outside the current conflict against the Umiaks, I mean.