Well of Souls Forums

Victor_D wrote:BTW, was Kikitik-27 really offering to spare Stillstorm and her crew, or was it just a jest on his part?

I believe the politically correct term is it.

I think there is two possibilities here.

1) It is serious because it's people have discovered the ability to obstruct and damp telepathy not only on themselves but on others as well. This means that it may have had the intentions of letting the loroi surrender in order to hold her up as a trophy. Just imagine the prestige of bringing the storm-witch to empire in chains.

2) It's just trying to lure them in a false sense of security (deception). It may be trying to use the loroi's inability to sense it's intentions and mental fatigue to get them to power down and hopefully step away from what they are guarding.

Suederwind wrote:

Oh oh let me guess .

Oh dear, I think I was a little lost in translation on this one.
I thought she was talking about the patterns of his ship or the "chitin" plates of his body. But his unusual tactics make much more sense as an explanation.

Ah now that you mention it maybe i should read more carefully in the future . Either way my guess still stands.

Arioch wrote:

Trantor wrote:Please tell me that for their appearance you weren´t inspired by this:

I wasn't inspired by that.

The "big noseless aliens" unfortunately mostly look very similar.

It more than just the physical resemblance,

Space Preachers !!!

Yiuel wrote:I have been surprised by one thing. Loroi population, if I go along what I can infer from the Insider's guide, isn't much more than 2 billion people, 3 billion top. Their main sister planet barely reaches 1 billion. I compare that to present Earth, which probably crossed the 7 billion mark by now. And we are on a single planet. Something in there explaining why Loroi are so small in terms of total population, despite ruling the second largest State in the vincinity?

The Loroi have significant populations on a large number of planets, more than just the original Sister Worlds, so the total population is a lot more than just a few billion. Maia is the most populous Loroi world. I don't have accurate numbers on what the total population is, but it's sigificantly larger than the total human population.

The reason that most individual Loroi planets don't have populations much higher than a few billion is that they choose not to. Loroi population growth is under tight government control; you have to get permission to have children. Individual communities decide what they think is an appropriate maximum population for the area, and then they set a cap. It's only in places like Maia where the social rules and ample space/resources allow for much larger populations.

Victor_D wrote: Actually, this is something I don't understand - why should the Loroi suffer so high casualties that they need to lift population restrictions on their worlds?

The first part of the answer is that high-tech societes are specialized; it's not easy to just grab a person from one role and toss her into someone else's role. For one thing, many jobs require years of training, and for another: who's now doing that person's old job? Combat personnel are usually a small percentage of the total population (especially in any high-tech system that requires a lot of logistics and support, like air forces and navies), but they're highly specialized and can't easily be replaced, so even when the loss rates are small compared to the total population, they can still cause serious manpower shortages and disruptions to society.

If you look at the casualty rates for WWII, which was the bloodiest war in our history, the actual percentages of loss are very small compared to the total population. Japan's disastrous losses amounted to only about 4% of the population, but they suffered from debilitating manpower shortages, especially in key areas. One key shortage I heard about was in pilots; prior to the war, the Japanese placed rigorous standards on their pilot training, and washed out large numbers of capable pilots who didn't measure up. So the result was an elite pilot corps, but very little manpower reserve, and a system that would make training more to the same standard very difficult and time-consuming. And so, when the Japanese lost a significant percentage of their best pilots at Coral Sea and Midway, this was a blow from which they were not able to recover. When the critical "big" air battles came a few years later at the Marianas and Philippines, the majority of Japanese pilots were hastily-trained replacements who were no match for their American counterparts, and the result is still remembered as a "turkey-shoot."

The Loroi had a much larger personnel reserve, but they have a similar challenge in that warriors are not recruited from civilian populations, but instead trained from a young age. It's possible to throw some desk jockeys or even civilians into needed specialties in a pinch, but that replacement is going to operate at reduced effectiveness, and the job that person used to perform prior to being reassigned will not get done. When a military loses a third of its combat forces in a single battle, that's going to present very serious personnel challenges, even if those losses represent a relatively small percentage of the total population.

The second part of answer is that the Loroi have lost a lot more than just ship crews. In the first five years of the war, the Loroi lost about a dozen inhabited systems and suffered raids directly into populated regions; the majority of the population in the lost systems were evacuated beforehand, but the loss of life was still staggering. Looking again at the WWII loss rates, even in those situations with the most appalling losses and incidents of genocide, the worst percentages of loss are "only" in the neighborhood of 16% (Poland) to 14% (Soviet Union). The loss of ten percent of your population is devastating to a modern society, especially during time of war. It's really hard to field new forces and increase production at home when you have fewer people.

I would agree that losses of ships and materiel are probably more of a crisis than the manpower shortages, but ships can be replaced on a much shorter time scale than people.

Karst45 wrote:It more than just the physical resemblance, Space Preachers !!!

Ah, I missed that element of it. Funny.

Some questions,

1) Has Alex so far convinced the Loroi he is totally not a psychic? If not will he ever convince them or will cognitive bias prevail?

2) If he fails to convince them otherwise that Humanity is not a psychic race would they be pretty miffed about the one race that could communicate to them on a meaningful level the same way as them (from their perspective anyways, regardless of how true that belief is) borderline shutting them out and rejecting them at virtually any and all circumstances? To clarifiy I don't mean exclusively politics alone but ALL circumstances.

3) Lastly, cause I don't think this was answered but how about pets? They all up and upon the idea of house pets? Or does this vary?

Loroi inhabit a variety of different worlds, and so they may have a variety of different pets. On many of the major Loroi worlds such as Deinar, Taben and Maia, the higher animals are almost all decended from Soia-Liron livestock, so there aren't many social predators from which to choose true companion-like pets (like dogs and cats). Probably the most common pet is one of a variety of miros, which is an omnivorous forager similar to a pig. Perrein has a wealth of highly-developed native animals and the local Loroi have a tradition of handling them, but they are mostly potentially lethal and not very cuddly (bugs, worms, tree-climbing squid-things).

I think a Terran merchant with a concession selling kittens in Loroi territory would quickly become a very popular guy.

As to the other questions, I think it's best not to short-circuit the story by commenting on what the Loroi really think about Alex or what they're going to do in the future.

Arioch wrote: I think a Terran merchant with a concession selling kittens in Loroi territory would quickly become a very popular guy.

Bah...now we need artwork of Loroi with kittens. Kittens might even get Fireblade to smile.

Arioch wrote:Perrein has a wealth of highly-developed native animals and the local Loroi have a tradition of handling them, but they are mostly potentially lethal and not very cuddly (bugs, worms, tree-climbing squid-things).

I want a tree-climbing squid-thing! *pouts*

I think a Terran merchant with a concession selling kittens in Loroi territory would quickly become a very popular guy.

Our true value to the Loroi has been revealed! Unfortunately cats are telepathic as well and the Feline-Loroi alliance will be our downfall, we should have given them more tuna.

You peaked my interest, so some more questions.

So I presume that Loroi would love Cats cause their cuddly ok, but what about Dogs? They've got the utility and are cuddly although a diffirent kind after they grow up. (Or do I have to bombard you with images of puppies?) Would they take a liking to Horses or Birds too or just the felines?

View of Zombies? Cause I always wondered since your comment of Loroi impressions of human media being very confusing documentaries.

Also, these pet questions also extend to the "Space Preachers".

Lastly, would the Historians be interested in our whales?

fredgiblet wrote:I want a tree-climbing squid-thing! *pouts*

Something between a Facehugger and a Squirrel?

fredgiblet wrote:Unfortunately cats are telepathic as well and the Feline-Loroi alliance will be our downfall, we should have given them more tuna.

Salmon, at least.

JQBogus wrote: Bah...now we need artwork of Loroi with kittens.

LOLoi cats?

Imbrooge wrote:Lastly, would the Historians be interested in our whales?

Where´s Spock when you need him?



Edit: Chocolate, and now cats, our position gets better and better!

Do the Loroi have a word for "cute"?

fredgiblet wrote: Unfortunately cats are telepathic as well and the Feline-Loroi alliance will be our downfall, we should have given them more tuna.

Cat: "You had your chance, human scum."

All lies, of course. The cats would have turned on us no matter how much tuna we'd given them.

Imbrooge wrote:You peaked my interest, so some more questions.

Interest is usually "piqued," by the way, not "peaked." I'm here to help.

Imbrooge wrote:So I presume that Loroi would love Cats cause their cuddly ok, but what about Dogs? They've got the utility and are cuddly although a diffirent kind after they grow up. (Or do I have to bombard you with images of puppies?) Would they take a liking to Horses or Birds too or just the felines?

The puppy vendor would probably do well until the Loroi realized that there was no way to prevent them from pooping everywhere. Somewhere some Loroi hunter-gatherers will say, "Damn! Wish we'd had these things ten thousand years ago!" But I'm still putting my money in Loroi kitten futures.

I don't normally think of birds and lizards and fish and other animals that must be kept in cages or under glass as "pets" but more like "zoo specimens." I suppose there are pretty smart birds that qualify as true pets and can talk... imagine how much the Loroi would appreciate that.

Imbrooge wrote:View of Zombies? Cause I always wondered since your comment of Loroi impressions of human media being very confusing documentaries.

I think the more fantastic stories would be less confusing to the Loroi than the more realistic ones, partly because they resemble myth, and partly because they're obviously not true. Specifically, there is something like undead in Loroi myth (melor). Rather, things like romantic comedies would mystify them.
Loroi: "Why was the story of the mating ritual of this 'Annie Hall' notable? Did it somehow impact her later historical achievements?"
Human: "Uh, no... Annie Hall isn't a real person. This is just a story about relationships."
Loroi: "WHAT?!? Why did you make me watch this?!?"

Imbrooge wrote:Also, these pet questions also extend to the "Space Preachers".

Barsam will like kittens too. Rhinos would be too expensive to transport.

Imbrooge wrote:Lastly, would the Historians be interested in our whales?

Not particularly. The Historians are protecting the Pol for reasons of their own, but not because they're Greenpeace members.

fredgiblet wrote:Do the Loroi have a word for "cute"?

Certainly more than one. (None in the lexicon at the moment.)

Arioch wrote:

fredgiblet wrote: Unfortunately cats are telepathic as well and the Feline-Loroi alliance will be our downfall, we should have given them more tuna.

Cat: "You had your chance, human scum."

All lies, of course. The cats would have turned on us no matter how much tuna we'd given them.

Our only defense is to develop our latent TK powers so we can perform ranged belly-rubs.

I think the more fantastic stories would be less confusing to the Loroi than the more realistic ones, partly because they resemble myth, and partly because they're obviously not true. In specifically, there is something like undead in Loroi myth (melor). Rather, things like romantic comedies would mystify them.
Loroi: "Why was the story of the mating ritual of this 'Annie Hall' notable? Did it somehow impact her later historical achievements?"
Human: "Uh, no... Annie Hall isn't a real person. This is just a story about relationships."
Loroi: "WHAT?!? Why did you make me watch this?!?"

I would love to be part of a team that just shows Loroi movies and asks their thoughts on them. Especially something like a Bollywood action movie where they go from a firefight to a dance number.

Arioch wrote:I think a Terran merchant with a concession selling kittens in Loroi territory would quickly become a very popular guy.

Oi.

And in a few million years, long after the fall of the current civilization in the Local Bubble, a species of cat-people will claim to have been descended from the true Loroterrans, the mythical masters of the last Empire.



---

Semi-seriously now, I'd say the relationship between humans and dogs has at least some genetic component now. We've probably co-evolved for at least several tens of thousands of years.

have them watch all the James Bond movies

"... he kills so many people... he's 4 different people... those are some impressive super weapons you have built in the past"

Arioch wrote: I suppose there are pretty smart birds that can talk... imagine how much the Loroi would appreciate that.

A trade speaking parrot is obviously a wonderful, non-refusable, non-disposable, diplomatic thank you gift from Captain/Ambassador Jardin to his first host, Stillstorm...

I really don't thinks cats and loroi would get along that well.

One is a proud race of integalactic warriors who wouldn't bow down without a heavy fight for it.

The other views all sentient life as potential slaves to suit their needs. Yeah great combo .

On the subject of cats, heres a question, did Bellermine have a ships cat? and could it theoretically survived in an air pocket to be brought on board? maybe one of those things the Loroi knew little about?

Beryl: Here, Alex, this is what we managed to recover from your ship, equipment, some food, vermin which we have it in stasis, crew massage equipment, hair care products....

Alex: Vermin.. wait.. MR MUFFIN!!!!! *fsht*

Mr Muffin : MEEEW!!!

Que slow motion scene.

Jericho wrote:The other views all sentient life as potential slaves to suit their needs.

But cats are benevolent overlords who require relatively little from their subjects; all one must do is feed them and keep the litter box clean, and be available for the occasional snuggle (when they feel like it). A dog's "master," on the other hand, must do much more work to keep his loyal servant healthy and happy.

DevilDalek wrote:On the subject of cats, heres a question, did Bellermine have a ships cat? and could it theoretically survived in an air pocket to be brought on board? maybe one of those things the Loroi knew little about?

While it's true that cats have superb survival skills (who was the only character to survive the Alien series? Jones the cat, of course), Bellarmine was not a tramp steamer with a misfit crew. It was a cutting edge long-range probe aboard which every gram of equipment and supplies was critical, and every gram of each crewmember's personal effects was inspected and vetted for potential impact on a crucial first-contact mission on which the survival of the species depended. So no, there were no pets on board.

Cpt. Hamilton: "Broadcast friendship messages on all frequencies!"
Lt. Walker: "Wait... target aspect change. Reading... ah fuck MR. MUFFIN GET OFF THE CONSOLE!"

So the real reason the Bellermine decompressed so badly is due to cat flaps being installed in all the doors?

Although I still think its a viable possibility! Since a cat year of supplies is about 200 kilos.

That's 62 kilos of tinned tuna, 118 liters of water, throw in some miscellaneous weight for other stuff and it can happen!
Think of the Loroi Arioch, would you deprive them of cats?
Let Mr Muffin happen....

Arioch wrote:Rhinos would be too expensive to transport.

Hm. But they´re about the closest thing to dinosaurs. Which the Loroi as a genetically engineered "new" lifeform didn´t had.
Or did "they" dig in some skeletons?