[RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

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Suederwind
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Suederwind »

Hm... that whole thing has rissen some questions and comments, at least for me:

-How many Marines are on board? Arioch stated that those 10 Security units are no longer correct. One security unit has 6 members, ten of them would be 60 marines, thats half of Cydonias crew. I have no idea how many Marines are typically aboard a warship today, but I highlly doubt that those make up 50% of its crew. So, Wolffs boarding party would be 6 of his men + himself, I think. Please correct me if I am wrong.

-We could play it very realistic and have no other officer and personell aboard that shuttle, besides the Marines or play it more Star Trekish. I would suggest a mixture of both. Not too realistic, as we have no idea they would handle such a thing in the future and not too Star Trekish, as I don't like anyone to end up as a red shirt character of some sort. What is your oppinion? I will of course change my postings, if necessary.

-I think that the Marines know how to use a blowtorch. "Hold hot end against the target and start cutting." Thats not too different from a gun. Nevertheless, having a technical guy on board would make some sense to me. He might have more of a clue if thats a mine or just a piece of molten hull you guys want to cut in pieces. On the other side, Ferrox has some experience in that field and so another guy would not be needed. What do you think?

-I think those Marines know enough of first aid, that the Doc can stay at home. You might take some first aid kits with you, but at the moment I think there will be some aboard that shuttle, together with a set of tools, like a blowtorch.

-Please keep in mind, that there is only room for 15 people on board the human shuttle and you want to bring back some debris from those destroyed ships, if possible.

-I'm not sure at the moment, what the Loroi players want to achieve. Do you want to contact that "drone" thing directly, do you want to cut it in pieces and analyze it in your shuttle? Maybe I just didn't got that part. Sorry in advance.

-Beliskner, no offense, but VonWolffe has a point, you should correct that rank of his character.

Edit: done some spell checking
Last edited by Suederwind on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Victor_D
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Victor_D »

If I may interject... it seems to me that due to the sensitivity of the situation - a potential first contact with a powerful alien species - a sensible Captain would want a high ranking officer he trusts there to oversee it. This is not a strictly military situation, plus someone with technical expertise (an engineer) would also be needed if salvage of alien tech is a secondary objective.

Suederwind
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Suederwind »

Thats indeed a valid point. Thanks, Victor_d!
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Yiuel
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Yiuel »

- The intention of my character (Softsapphire) was to bring the thing in, and analyse it inside. That is why I wanted to know if I could bring it in. Indeed, seeing it could have been interesting. (Which brings me a question. Do I see it? If I see it, are there any marks? If their are, I must compare them with all the memories I have. )
la nɔtʀʏltsɪmœ ʀɛv, dɛ ʒã puʀ la pʀɔtɛʒe
nu vœnõ dõkœ dœ tupaʀtu, puʀ ɛtʀœ sa ɡʀãdaʀme
dœ la site pʀɔtɛktœʀ, dœ sœ ʀɛvœ defãsœʀ
ynjõ dœ la fɔʀsœ dœ tus, nu vwasijalɔʀ lɛzɔʀiɔnɪt

- The Chant of A Certain Army

Beliskner
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Beliskner »

Already fixed, I made 8 members away team for shuttle mission. Ferox, 2 engineers, pilot and 4 your marines.
Take note that they will not board any ship(there is non) but only go to salvage wreckage and contact alien shuttle in close range(which makes basically security detail unnecessary.

What's more, with no offense VonWolffe. Soon whole security detail will be needed aboard Cydonia when alien shuttle is invited in. It would be most important for chief security officer then to prepare whole ship while it's his job and main responsibility.)
Last edited by Beliskner on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Suederwind
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Suederwind »

If you go with them, then you can see it directly. If you stay in the shuttle, as suggested by the last posts from the loroi point of view, you will be able to see it as sanzaied images or they send those images to you with their scanners. You will be able to compare them with your memories and whatever data you have on your pad (I might roll that one out for you.).

Ah, another question: did I got the right impression that you landed your craft on that Asteroid where the probe is?
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bunnyboy
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by bunnyboy »

Don't stick too much of what are practises today.
You don't play 1860's rules today, either.
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sunphoenix
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by sunphoenix »

My proposed 'compromise' was to investigate the probe... outside the shuttle for I doubt with all our survivors we would have enough space inside THE SMALLEST SHUTTLE the Loroi have to do any kind of technical analysis. Plus if the radiation is so high outside... that probe will ALSO be irradiated. The plan was to get to the probe...open it and see if its computer or transmission electronics could be patched into and some information about its origin and or if it was currently in contact with some mothership. This was so we could get a bearing on that ship or a communication frequency its using so we could confirm or deny it was not Umiak or a client race of the Umiak. If it tnrs out to be an unknown ...or previously undiscovered race then 'first contact' protocools would be initiated.

The primary objective being to learn if the probe belongs to a known hostile race or not. If not we contact them and try to negotiate for help.

No. We did not land on the rock with the probe on it. We're going to EVA to it...hence the EVA maneuver packs.
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[IC] Deep Strike 'Lt' Kamielle Lynn
[IC] Cydonia Rising/Tempest Sonnidezi Stormrage
[IC] Incursion Maiannon Golden Hair
[IC] TdSmR Athen Rourke

"...you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him."

Suederwind
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Suederwind »

@human side: You might want to take dragoons character with you, btw.

@sunphoenix: Yes, that makes sense. That thing will certanly be irradiated and there will be very little space left in that shuttle. You might want to add some kind of com-device to the probe and use it for communication with whoever build that thing.
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Victor_D
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Victor_D »

I seriously doubt the Loroi would be able to actually connect with the probe's computers and get any data out of it. It's a completely different system.

The goal of the EVA might be as simple as getting close to the probe and confirming that it is indeed human-made (because there's something like "ECS-096 Cydonia-Sensor Probe 003" written on the hull :) ). Since the Loroi know the Humans are theoretically friendly and they don't have any other option if they want to survive, I doubt there is much else to do for them but to take the risk and contact Cydonia.

Another point: the Loroi characters might think about what they're doing with the probe. You know, disabling somebody else's sensor probe might be seen as a hostile act. The Mizol should be aware of that.

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Yiuel
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Yiuel »

Suederwind wrote:If you go with them, then you can see it directly. If you stay in the shuttle, as suggested by the last posts from the loroi point of view, you will be able to see it as sanzaied images or they send those images to you with their scanners. You will be able to compare them with your memories and whatever data you have on your pad (I might roll that one out for you.).
I shall do the second. So you can roll it. Relevent skills are Mind +8 and Heightened Awareness +2.
la nɔtʀʏltsɪmœ ʀɛv, dɛ ʒã puʀ la pʀɔtɛʒe
nu vœnõ dõkœ dœ tupaʀtu, puʀ ɛtʀœ sa ɡʀãdaʀme
dœ la site pʀɔtɛktœʀ, dœ sœ ʀɛvœ defãsœʀ
ynjõ dœ la fɔʀsœ dœ tus, nu vwasijalɔʀ lɛzɔʀiɔnɪt

- The Chant of A Certain Army

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sunphoenix
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by sunphoenix »

The Loroi DO know about human technology.. they did recover quite a bit from the wrecked Bellermine. I'm sure they know how to read or access human data-systems.. its part of why we were sent this way afterall. Plus finding out where the probe is directing its radio transmissions is not a computer hack. But determining that the probe is not the product of an enemy race is more the objective. Storm is assuming for safety sake that the probe is from a hostile race.. so she doesn't really care if its considered hostile or rude. The Loroi do still have a weapon... a 160ton shuttle capable of 10 G of acceleration! Death can also be a weapon if they are provided no other choice.. and is preferable to being captured alive by the Umiak or any of their client races.
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[IC] Deep Strike 'Lt' Kamielle Lynn
[IC] Cydonia Rising/Tempest Sonnidezi Stormrage
[IC] Incursion Maiannon Golden Hair
[IC] TdSmR Athen Rourke

"...you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him."

Victor_D
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Victor_D »

sunphoenix wrote:The Loroi DO know about human technology.. they did recover quite a bit from the wrecked Bellermine.
They know what it *looks like*. Interfacing and accessing an active computer system, not to mention one equipped with safeties to prevent just that, would be a lot more difficult. Especially for a rag-tag band of survivors from an exploded ship, who lack the proper equipment to deal with the challenge.
I'm sure they know how to read or access human data-systems..
Based on what? Even if they recovered some pieces of burnt-out electronics from Bellarmine (the ship exploded after being repeatedly hit by a terawatt-class charged particle beam, for heaven's sake), it wouldn't be of much use.
Plus finding out where the probe is directing its radio transmissions is not a computer hack.
It's not, but then, it doesn't require an EVA to find out.
But determining that the probe is not the product of an enemy race is more the objective. Storm is assuming for safety sake that the probe is from a hostile race.. so she doesn't really care if its considered hostile or rude.
She might not, I am just saying the Mizol, being trained in the fine arts of diplomacy, should perhaps recognize the danger and be more cautious.
The Loroi do still have a weapon... a 160ton shuttle capable of 10 G of acceleration! Death can also be a weapon if they are provided no other choice.. and is preferable to being captured alive by the Umiak or any of their client races.
Definitely, though I guess she would understand that the chance of getting close enough to actually ram the enemy ship is negligible (even if the 'enemy' were the Humans).

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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by VonWolffe »

I would imagine given the size of the vessel and the limited capacity in which the Marines have to function there would be approximately 12-14 aboard the Cydonia. Their duties would consist of general duties and maintenance tasks, but their big mission/mandate would be to form the boarding party in the event of contact with aliens. To this end every Marine that would be selected for duty aboard the Cydonia would be trained to handle shipboard duties such as maintenance, but more importantly each would be fluent in the Trade language, trained to handle first contact, and would bring a certain specialty to the table. Bear in mind these are some of the very best the Colonies have to offer; a small task force serving on one of humanity's handful of ships on the front lines of the search for alien life and potentially the fight for humanity's very survival.

My objection as stated above is that the BPO is having who is taken on the boarding party dictated to him by someone with a higher rank who is untrained to do so. You changed the details Beliskner but changed nothing that the objection was based on. On top of that, now suggesting that the Security Officer (not Chief,that's a whole other thing) should not be part of the boarding party (... The Boarding Party Officer) why? In order to make sure the walls don't fall down while the First Officer is gone? This is not only a silly departure from protocol as any given person aboard ship could handle getting it ready to receive refugees, but also is an attempt to cut me/him out of the RP. You are responding to a policy based and understandable Navy/Marine role objection by reassigning an officer to guard duty and a player to leave the game.

For Victor_D, while you are correct that command will eventually be the ones dealing with the Loroi face to face bear in mind that the FO is 24 years old and has been in the Navy for two years. While he has been promoted at the breathtakingly impressive rate of one full rank every other month, think about what a First Officer actually does on a Navy vessel. Now think about what an Infantry/Marine Officer does and is trained to do and consider which of the two is properly equipped to handle boarding a possibly hostile vessel and then performing rescue and first responder duties as required while collecting intel to relay back to command, who would then determine the proper course of action to take. It's not the guy wearing white with big gold bars on his shoulders. There is a reason that Stillstorm is not the first person Alex saw in the room when he woke up, her job is to make decisions based on the information that her subordinates collect for her.

The engineers to collect salvage makes sense, leaving the BPO behind could not make less sense, pilot to get there is a given, but these would all be attachments to the already established boarding party, not replacements for them. I can work with four Marines (one Assault Group), though it is a half strength boarding party and Dragoon will certainly be one of those. This leaves ten Marines back on the Cydonia to twiddle their thumbs and make sure the walls don't fall down. If we are expecting to take survivors aboard then these numbers make sense, though that would not change anything for the initial boarding party as safety is the first priority when investigating a given situation.

Fact is the Captain turned to the wrong guy to arrange the boarding party. That is the BPO's whole job. Ah we'll, we're in it now. I will have Wolffe change into his sailor scout uniform at his earliest convenience. This was a matter to be discussed with the whole group and was at no point a personal attack on anyone, so those of you chastising me over PMs please read over what was actually said a few more times before your next barrage thanks.

Beliskner
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Beliskner »

Somehow I doubt that Loroi can read human made data stored on hard drives. They can surly recognize human tech from it's shapes, patterns, symbols and writing. It will make clear object orgin if you met one before.

Even if they salvaged many from Bellarmine it would take years to find out mechanisms and software needed to read it. Arioch mention may times that Loroi race is conservative and centered around government. Both things kill innovation and individual's ingenuity. Secondly most of tech Loroi faced before(morat, umiak, hist ect) are probably Soian in origin so they have similar roots, there is always way to connect things together.
However human tech is unique. So Loroi would need to start from basic, learn(adopt,translate) human language(propably only few Loroi can speak human, read: probably less), principles and laws of mathematics, physics which we use to make our things.
Ensign A. Jardin had not real academics knowledge about those things, and I sure he didn't know basic principles of software making which could accelerate Loroi investigation.
More would he share his knowledge about such things? In my opinion it would be act of treason. He would be giving one of most vital information for "potential" enemy only so save his skin?

Conclusion:
Loroi may know human language(English probably although I would call it COMMON in universe like this) on very basic level(I'm sure Loroi would have major problem with reading human expressions, phrases, vocabulary, colloquialisms and slangs)

But above that? They can probably read letters and numbers make basic words from it nothing more.
While Loroi are formidably advance race they are simply brutal scavengers who salvaged much of their tech from another races...

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sunphoenix
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by sunphoenix »

{sigh}..

The Loroi are at least two to three tech levels higher than the humans. Figuring out their primitive binary programing languages should not prove such a monumental task for a race use to dealing with other species that have their own technology and data systems. Plus the Bell was killed with plasma focus-like weaponry not a particle beam.. but Aroich has NOT confirmed either way on the matter.

My point being, we are in unknown territory here.. debating the minutia of this is silly.

It makes sense that once the loroi, one determine that the probe is NOT a client race of the Umiak and two, recognize it is human technology... {which they can only do through examination} they can safely open communications.

Cause yes.. they wouldn't need to open the probe to figure out where its transmitting.. IF they had the full military seeking sensors of a warship.. which they do not. We have a small low grade trans-orbital skiff.
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[IC] Deep Strike 'Lt' Kamielle Lynn
[IC] Cydonia Rising/Tempest Sonnidezi Stormrage
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Beliskner
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Beliskner »

VonWolffe:
I'm not cutting you off. Ba I can make it they you will lead whole scout\salvage operation while my char will stay at ship. I HAVE NO real problem with that. Even I wil be glad to stay ;]

Look at my thinking:
What would happened if shuttle would be destroyed with it's crew and Cydonia would be somehow boarded by alien hostail commando?

Losing flag officer? low 'ground' combat effectiveness lost' ship will still be operational and staffed.(probably another bridge officer would assume flag officer position)
Losing 2 engineers same..
Losing 4 marines - well painful but we would lost them anyway.

And Losing chief security officer?
In my opinion it would be critical failure. He is a person who trains combat units aboard, knows how to fortify effectively halls and rooms to defend them. All security personnel knows hims and obey better then Captain or any other officer. More he knows the best how can do what and how to use people under his command.

But Ok i know what you mean. I'm dropping it. Be it your way, solve scene as you like I will comply..
Last edited by Beliskner on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Suederwind
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Suederwind »

So, this was my fault. Sorry for causing this mess. I will change Captain Blakes lines as soon as I'm back home. Please bear in mind that I do not have any personal experience in rank or command strukturs. Sorry in advance for possible further errors like this. I will correct them as soon, as I am aware of them.
The whole point was, that Blake doesn't want to risk his ship. Who knows what else lurks out there. For me as a GM this a possibilty to get the human side some action and a possibility for dragoon to get back into the game.
I have to say, that it is much harder for me as GM runing this game, than normal. I can't see or hear you and adress any ocouring problems, the way I used to do.

But please, one important thing: no personal attacks against players. That is something I really do _not_ like, as it can ruin a game. Please stop doing that and appologise. This is a game and no fighting ground!
I hope I made myselfe clear on that last point.
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Victor_D
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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Victor_D »

sunphoenix wrote:{sigh}..
Look, I am not debating anything here, I am simply pointing out things that, in my opinion, need commentary. What you players do with it is up to you :) Feel free to disregard whatever I say, I don't mind.
The Loroi are at least two to three tech levels higher than the humans. Figuring out their primitive binary programing languages should not prove such a monumental task for a race use to dealing with other species that have their own technology and data systems.


This is Outsider setting, not Star Trek where you can plug anything into everything and it somehow works. IIRC, Arioch said that the computers the Loroi use are basically the same as the ones Humans use (in operating principles and computing capacity), but that doesn't mean they're in any shape or form compatible.

So in this situation I imagine it would be like trying to connect to an old Commodore 64 with your smartphone. Pretty much *impossible* unless you have some sort of interfacing equipment/software handy. Which I doubt they have in their shuttle...
Plus the Bell was killed with plasma focus-like weaponry not a particle beam.. but Aroich has NOT confirmed either way on the matter.
Plasma is made of charged particles :geek: I imagine the power levels involved are more that sufficient to fry electronics in an unshielded ship like Bellarmine. If they recovered something working out of it, it were unconnected devices, like, say, data pads.

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Re: [RP]Cydonia Rising (OOC)

Post by Suederwind »

Please calm down a bit, everyone.

Some words on that computer problem:
The loroi do possibly know how a human computer works in theory. But they do not have a working one, unless we see, for example, Alex playing a game of "Angry Birds" on his smartphone/pda/datapad.
They will not be able to make much sense out of that datastream for example.
They will easily know that this is a human probe, because of its markings and so on.
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