Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

[Mr.Tucker]

Well I have a question. Since pirates and privateers can't hide from the authorities (with space being cold and empty and such), they wouldn't exist. But what about smugglers? Either secret smugglers pretending their cargo is legit, or some type of blockade runners, zooming from jump point to jump point, while actively trying to avoid all other ships. Since there's no FTL comm, the next system they jump to won't have a clue they're trouble, and as such police ships may be slower to mobilize (until a courier arrives telling them that the ships that's making a beeline for the next jump point is suspicious). One can do this trick for several systems I believe (though I'm not sure if they'd have anything to smuggle), since the speed and vector one has when jumping is conserved in the next system (per my understanding).

[Arioch]

Smuggling is all about port security: controlling access to populations on stations or planetary surfaces and searching cargoes as they come through. It's entirely a local concern, as what is considered contraband will vary from place to place. If you want to exchange Romulan Ale or whatever other contraband you have out in deep space, the authorities won't care and it's not within their jurisdiction anyway. It's when you try to take it home that it becomes an issue.

[saint of m]

I know you said Space Pirates in the traditional sense would be out of the question, but what about say something simalar to Mass Effect where instead of targeting ships in open space, raiders could attack sparcly defended outposts and colonies?

How realistic is that threat.

[Arioch]

I know you said Space Pirates in the traditional sense would be out of the question, but what about say something simalar to Mass Effect where instead of targeting ships in open space, raiders could attack sparcly defended outposts and colonies? How realistic is that threat.

If you're talking about Human raiders attacking Humanity's outposts, then there are two questions: first, where are these raiders coming from? Starships are very expensive and require significant infrastructure to fuel and operate; they need to be based somewhere. Any raid by armed starships can probably be traced back to the nation from which it originated, causing a major international incident... so it's basically one nation attacking another, rather than a case of piracy. And in either case, the Colonial Fleet is going to have something to say about the incident.

The second question is: what is the benefit in attacking outposts? Most are research stations or small settlements, without much of value to steal.

[Jakelope13]

I know you said Space Pirates in the traditional sense would be out of the question, but what about say something simalar to Mass Effect where instead of targeting ships in open space, raiders could attack sparcly defended outposts and colonies? How realistic is that threat.

If you're talking about Human raiders attacking Humanity's outposts, then there are two questions: first, where are these raiders coming from? Starships are very expensive and require significant infrastructure to fuel and operate; they need to be based somewhere. Any raid by armed starships can probably be traced back to the nation from which it originated, causing a major international incident... so it's basically one nation attacking another, rather than a case of piracy. And in either case, the Colonial Fleet is going to have something to say about the incident.

The second question is: what is the benefit in attacking outposts? Most are research stations or small settlements, without much of value to steal.

There could be some use in the information itself (depending upon the research that station is performing), which would be a high-value, low-bulk item that'd be perfect for a pirate to confiscate. I do agree though that, this early into Humanity's expansion out into the wilderness of space, it'd be far, far too dangerous for a corporation to pay someone to attack their competitor's research data (with only six worlds and a handful of other research outposts, someone would bound to notice how the first corporation suddenly has the upper hand on their competitor).

What about, instead of some privateer force harassing another nation's shipping, that a junction commander starts jacking up the fees on cargo vessels?

[Arioch]

What about, instead of some privateer force harassing another nation's shipping, that a junction commander starts jacking up the fees on cargo vessels?

Interstellar shipping is the TCA's jurisdiction; individual colonial nations can't just levy fees on passing ships because they feel like it, any more than a small town can set up a toll booth on US 101. If a colony thinks it's owed compensation for the use of its infrastructure, it has to go to the TCA for approval (and likely enforcement; it's hard to make a starship stop). But considering that most of the navigation infrastructure in any system is probably supplied and maintained by the TCA... you get the picture.

If a station owner wants to jack up their docking fees and charge outrageous prices for their supplies, well... that just sounds like capitalism to me. But at this point, there are very few places where you are going to be only game in town. It's only five jumps from Sol to 82 Eridani, and a ship doesn't have to refuel at every jump. If you charge too much, chances are people will take their business to someone else.

There are only four inhabited systems in Terran space; the eyes of the law are almost always on you. This isn't the Wild West just yet.

[discord]

and probably will not be any time soon, due to the military buildup, those ships have to do something before they engage in the fighting(military escorts doing picket duty help out the local customs guys.) and once the war is over there will be plenty of surplus military ships for the customs guys to inherit....

there may however be a window of opportunity when most of the military is otherwise engaged, but the penalty for 'piracy' during wartimes tend to be....swift and without mercy.

so no, will not be any wild west themes any time soon imho.

[Zakharra]

and probably will not be any time soon, due to the military buildup, those ships have to do something before they engage in the fighting(military escorts doing picket duty help out the local customs guys.) and once the war is over there will be plenty of surplus military ships for the customs guys to inherit....

there may however be a window of opportunity when most of the military is otherwise engaged, but the penalty for 'piracy' during wartimes tend to be....swift and without mercy.

so no, will not be any wild west themes any time soon imho.

Not to mention any colony or corporation caught endorsing/aiding such piracy will not survive very long. I'd think that the TCA and the other colonies and corporations would have a very dim view of pirates.

[saint of m]

How advance will cetain counties be? fterall we have plenty of nations that are at first world level today, and many more that are thrid world.

WOuld they comparitivly in the time of the story, still be thrid world, or would things have changed in various countires where supper powers are now impoverished and some third world are top dog?

[GeoModder]

I reckon some of the so-called third world countries of today will have become stupendously wealthy just by sitting on the equator (space elevators).

[Arioch]

I expect that most nations of Earth will be very well developed (by today's standards) 150 years from now. However, I have no doubt that there will still be places in the world where people insist on living in squalor at the very lowest levels of technology. There will always be throwbacks.

[Murica]

Does humanity have mobile ground based weapons that can shot accurately into space ? They would have to be very mobile in order not to become sitting ducks

[Karst45]

I reckon some of the so-called third world countries of today will have become stupendously wealthy just by sitting on the equator (space elevators).

before we have space elevator, we will need to do quite a cleaning of the Geostationary orbit or fear a Kessler effect.

[GeoModder]

I reckon some of the so-called third world countries of today will have become stupendously wealthy just by sitting on the equator (space elevators).

before we have space elevator, we will need to do quite a cleaning of the Geostationary orbit or fear a Kessler effect.

The geostationary orbit isn't really the problem. It's the stuff whizzing around in low(er) orbit that could cause collisions.

[Arioch]

I think cleanup of space junk is going to be a necessity. I recall someone saying that having services like those in PLANETES where they go out and grab each piece individually would not be feasible, but I don't really see an alternative. Maybe you could have robots that go around and knock things out of orbit, but I can imagine that creating as much new debris as it removes.

Does humanity have mobile ground based weapons that can shot accurately into space ? They would have to be very mobile in order not to become sitting ducks

Current surface navy vessels have weapons that can reach orbit; they are mobile, but I think the mobility has more to do with flexibility and deployment, and limited range, than it has to do with dodging. Orbit is only a few hundred kilometers from the surface; I don't think most surface ships could even move a single ship length in the one or two seconds it would take a mass driver round to travel from low orbit to the surface.

Inland lasers or missile stations placed to protect cities would probably not need to be mobile; they would be last-ditch close-in defenses akin to the Phalanx, and not primary defenses that would be expected to thwart a sustained attack. Ground bases are not ideal for space combat for a variety of reasons.

[Absalom]

I think cleanup of space junk is going to be a necessity. I recall someone saying that having services like those in PLANETES where they go out and grab each piece individually would not be feasible, but I don't really see an alternative. Maybe you could have robots that go around and knock things out of orbit, but I can imagine that creating as much new debris as it removes.

1) Lasers have been suggested, which for some stuff (high surface area to mass ratio, in an orbit too high to be grabbed by the atmosphere already) I would assume will happen to some level.

2) A possibility that I once read in some sci-fi book was to have a very thin sheet of gold that you just ran into things. At orbital speed differentials the gold that was physically hit would turn into plasma, thereby exerting a small rocket-effect in opposition to the vector of the impacting object. Fortunately, this should be doable with materials other than gold, as it's basically a variant of the Whipple shield.

3) Then there's "space drones" equipped with "proper" Whipple shields designed to stop the object the first time, rather than just slow it down a little. This is useful for a smaller variety of objects than possibility 2, but also does more of the job at once.

4) Finally, there's the space-tug method. Just match the orbit, grab on, and move it somewhere (presumably one of the disposal orbits, unless you're really close to LEO already).

Of those four, 2 - 4 require propulsion and maneuvering, but hopefully that could be accomplished with a combination of flywheels (for quick rotations) and several magnetic tethers (several so that you can switch them on and off to control and compensate for rotation, I'd say that 3 is a safe "absolute minimum, but really, add a few more" value; magnetic because I'd be dubious about using an electric tether beyond LEO).

[Mr.Tucker]

I think cleanup of space junk is going to be a necessity. I recall someone saying that having services like those in PLANETES where they go out and grab each piece individually would not be feasible, but I don't really see an alternative. Maybe you could have robots that go around and knock things out of orbit, but I can imagine that creating as much new debris as it removes.

1) Lasers have been suggested, which for some stuff (high surface area to mass ratio, in an orbit too high to be grabbed by the atmosphere already) I would assume will happen to some level.

2) A possibility that I once read in some sci-fi book was to have a very thin sheet of gold that you just ran into things. At orbital speed differentials the gold that was physically hit would turn into plasma, thereby exerting a small rocket-effect in opposition to the vector of the impacting object. Fortunately, this should be doable with materials other than gold, as it's basically a variant of the Whipple shield.

3) Then there's "space drones" equipped with "proper" Whipple shields designed to stop the object the first time, rather than just slow it down a little. This is useful for a smaller variety of objects than possibility 2, but also does more of the job at once.

4) Finally, there's the space-tug method. Just match the orbit, grab on, and move it somewhere (presumably one of the disposal orbits, unless you're really close to LEO already).

Of those four, 2 - 4 require propulsion and maneuvering, but hopefully that could be accomplished with a combination of flywheels (for quick rotations) and several magnetic tethers (several so that you can switch them on and off to control and compensate for rotation, I'd say that 3 is a safe "absolute minimum, but really, add a few more" value; magnetic because I'd be dubious about using an electric tether beyond LEO).

Indeed, both "laser brooms" and particle beam projectors have been proposed to clear orbital space of debris. I'm inclined to believe particle beams would be more efficient at this, since they can impart more momentum into a target (particles having mass, unlike photons). They would sweep orbital space and nudge the debris into a decaying orbit, over several passes if need be (interestingly, while doing my little foray into Magbeams, I found that this was another potential application). However, arranging a rendezvous between a piece of debris and a collecting drone seems both time consuming and inefficient, unless said debris was of considerable size. Sending a drone to crash into orbiting particles may work, but would also take considerable time (new debris is produced each day), and it's hard to imagine sending a 50kg satellite simply to collect a debris the size of a bolt.
Magnetic tethers require good timing (and trying not to get hit by other things while maneuvering the large structure to collect the primary target), and debris generally have erratic orbits, so it would be, again, difficult and time consuming (they are still marvelous for orbital maneuvering of ships ).

[Karst45]

I think cleanup of space junk is going to be a necessity. I recall someone saying that having services like those in PLANETES where they go out and grab each piece individually would not be feasible, but I don't really see an alternative. Maybe you could have robots that go around and knock things out of orbit, but I can imagine that creating as much new debris as it removes.

actually one of the solution they tought is a laser "space broom" Using laser to heat up the debris facing us, it supposed to push it in higher "graveyard" orbit. but frankly, i didnt understand all of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_broom

[Suederwind]

actually one of the solution they tought is a laser "space broom" Using laser to heat up the debris facing us, it supposed to push it in higher "graveyard" orbit. but frankly, i didnt understand all of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_broom

Hm... maybe that Wired article linked on wikipedia helps a bit? Link


I hope you don't mind adding a few questions (sorry if they have been asked before)?

1. Whats with the systems in the human "sphere of influence" that have no colonies, are there small outposts/research installations/refuel stations/whatever... or are they completely uninhabited?
2. Is some of the food aboard human (or Loroi) ships grown aboard?
3. Do the various human nations still have ftl capable ships of their own or are they all corporate/TCA owned?

[Arioch]

1. Whats with the systems in the human "sphere of influence" that have no colonies, are there small outposts/research installations/refuel stations/whatever... or are they completely uninhabited?

Most are uninhabited. A few have research or resource extraction outposts. Most have some basic unmanned infrastructure: system buoys, navigational beacons, data collection stations.

2. Is some of the food aboard human (or Loroi) ships grown aboard?

Larger Loroi vessels (like Tempest) have an arboretum in which they grow some plants for consumption; mainly Perrein Shadowlands fungoids. Some Terran vessels might have similar facilities, but I imagine Bellarmine was probably too small.

3. Do the various human nations still have ftl capable ships of their own or are they all corporate/TCA owned?

Sure, the larger nations and collectives would own and operate a number of FTL ships, including some armed vessels. These would need to comply with the TCA treaty limitations.