Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

[Onaiom]

As I mentioned in a different thread, I sometimes use GURPS terms to help describe stuff in my stories, but they are not set in any GURPS world or based on the technology in the GURPS books. Just because you see something in GURPS Ultra-Tech doesn't mean it's in Outsider.

There's a lot in this thread about the kind of technology humanity has, and the kind of weapons they use.

I noticed that Outsider setting has something in common with GURPS. You seem to disagree with some aspects and I want to know why. By no means I'm forcing you to accept that "Outsider is GURPS".

By the way, only the last topic was related with GURPS Ultra-tech. And in my opinion, that soldier was not so overpower.

I apologize if I said something that pissed you off.

[Arioch]

I apologize if I said something that pissed you off.

I'm not angry, and I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I don't think I understand your question.

The list of Ultra-Tech gear you posted is not at all how a Terran marine would be outfitted. Humanity is at TL9 with a few experimental TL10 technologies (such as ship-scale particle cannons). They don't have pocket fusion reactors or gyrojets or vibroblades or cybernetic limbs. The standard weapons are still chemical slugthrowers. If your question is "why?", that's a pretty broad question. I think I've discussed almost all of these subjects in some detail in the earlier pages of this thread, but I'll be glad to answer questions if they are more specific.

[McBobbish]

The list of Ultra-Tech gear you posted is not at all how a Terran marine would be outfitted. Humanity is at TL9 with a few experimental TL10 technologies (such as ship-scale particle cannons). They don't have pocket fusion reactors or gyrojets or vibroblades or cybernetic limbs. The standard weapons are still chemical slugthrowers. If your question is "why?", that's a pretty broad question. I think I've discussed almost all of these subjects in some detail in the earlier pages of this thread, but I'll be glad to answer questions if they are more specific.

Why wouldn't they have gyrojets? I mean, we can make fancy things like gyrojets now, I mean, they were invented in the 60's if I remember correctly? Why not in the 22nd century or what ever this is?

[GeoModder]

Why wouldn't they have gyrojets? I mean, we can make fancy things like gyrojets now, I mean, they were invented in the 60's if I remember correctly? Why not in the 22nd century or what ever this is?

Why don't we have moon rockets these days? They existed in the late sixties/early seventies.

[NuclearIceCream]

The answer to both of those questions would be money.

[fredgiblet]

Why wouldn't they have gyrojets? I mean, we can make fancy things like gyrojets now, I mean, they were invented in the 60's if I remember correctly? Why not in the 22nd century or what ever this is?

Gyrojets were tried a while ago and were found to be problematic. Making an entirely new type of weapon requires a major investor, the military decided not to pursue them, so the money to develop them disappeared. We're finally looking into new designs, but instead of Gyrojets the military is pursuing Caseless and telescoped polymer cased ammunition, which offer similar benefits to overall system weight, while not having nearly the same reliability issues.

[RedDwarfIV]

Why do Terran vessels have an 'external' bridge? (The sketched cruiser on the Terran & Umiak Ships page with the Big Ass Gun for example.) Is it assumed that anything capable of killing the spacecraft would destroy a bridge anywhere it was placed? What about small craft armed with weapons that can damage glass? Is it for assisting with docking maybe?

I'm fairly sure the Loroi vessels have internal bridges somewhere near their centre of mass. Its why they have that massive battlespace projection overhead rather than windows. Not that you'd neccesarily need to be able to see outside given the ranges they'd be fighting at.

[NuclearIceCream]

Why do Terran vessels have an 'external' bridge?

I think its because the Terran Military ships were mostly built for show and were never really meant for fighting anything as well armed as they are.

[CptWinters]

I think the disconnect lies in the difference between a "bridge" and a "CIC." Arioch, obviously, is the final authority, but I believe that Terran vessels follow the same architecture that our own naval warships do: the bridge is an observation point, while the CIC is a hardened space where the vessel's commander directs it during combat.

[Arioch]

The answer to both of those questions would be money.

The fact that it hasn't been adopted should be the clue. My understanding is that gyrojet ammunition was more expensive, less reliable, and not significantly better than ordinary ammunition. High-tech weapons actually have to be an improvement to be adopted.

Smart ammunition is already here, not in gyrojets but in explosive rounds that can be timed to detonate to damage targets around corners or behind cover. The problem is figuring out how to let the bullet know when to detonate. Currently the system involves carrying around a laptop with the gun... it's usable in support situations only, when you have almost total control of the battlefield. It's not something you can control shooting from the hip. Weapons get smarter, but it's not clear how the human is supposed to control them without becoming part of the weapons system.

Why do Terran vessels have an 'external' bridge?

Military vessels will have a command center deep inside the vessel, as well-protected as it can be. But, as today, there may be windowed observation ports that may be useful for close-in maneuvers, or even just for viewing pleasure. But just because you see windows doesn't mean that's the bridge.

[fredgiblet]

The big advantage to Gyrojets was supposed to be low recoil and light, cheap guns. A rifle firing Gyrojets could be smoothbore and very light without compromising accuracy or controllability.

Of course not long after the Gyrojet thing started the M-16 was adopted which was lighter and had lower recoil than the M-14, giving some of the benefits without the detriments of the Gyrojet. Now we've got the LSAT program running which will give us lighter and more controllable ammo again, the Gyrojet thing just isn't promising enough.

[NuclearIceCream]

I recall hearing the gyro-jet gun was supposedly going to be an astronaut weapon to shoot space commies. I guess the recoil was supposed to be low enough that firing it in the low-g orbit environment wasn't dangerous for the shooter. I will confess that I don't care to much for the thing so I've never done any research on it.

[RedDwarfIV]

Why do Terran vessels have an 'external' bridge?

Military vessels will have a command center deep inside the vessel, as well-protected as it can be. But, as today, there may be windowed observation ports that may be useful for close-in maneuvers, or even just for viewing pleasure. But just because you see windows doesn't mean that's the bridge.

The bridge was labelled as such on the drawing.

Out of interest, why were the Bridge crew... you know, on the Bridge when they were observing the first battle seen in the comic? I know it ultimately didn't help any, but you'd think they might have moved to CIC if the Bridge was primarily for maneuvers and observation. Or were they in CIC and those were screens showing space in front of them? For 'windows', they did seem fairly straight compared with those on Bellarmine's rounded nose...

[McBobbish]

The answer to both of those questions would be money.

The fact that it hasn't been adopted should be the clue. My understanding is that gyrojet ammunition was more expensive, less reliable, and not significantly better than ordinary ammunition. High-tech weapons actually have to be an improvement to be adopted.

Smart ammunition is already here, not in gyrojets but in explosive rounds that can be timed to detonate to damage targets around corners or behind cover. The problem is figuring out how to let the bullet know when to detonate. Currently the system involves carrying around a laptop with the gun... it's usable in support situations only, when you have almost total control of the battlefield. It's not something you can control shooting from the hip. Weapons get smarter, but it's not clear how the human is supposed to control them without becoming part of the weapons system.

Just to be clear, I wasn't thinking of them deploying gyrojets for everyone, just for more specialized roles like zero-g combat.

[Arioch]

Out of interest, why were the Bridge crew... you know, on the Bridge when they were observing the first battle seen in the comic? I know it ultimately didn't help any, but you'd think they might have moved to CIC if the Bridge was primarily for maneuvers and observation. Or were they in CIC and those were screens showing space in front of them? For 'windows', they did seem fairly straight compared with those on Bellarmine's rounded nose...

Bellarmine is a small vessel that is not, strictly speaking, military. The bridge and CIC are the same thing, and not as well-protected as one might expect of a true warship.

[lostnomad]

In a previous thread Ariochyou mentioned

Today, a high-quality digital camera is a component that costs something like $20, and that can easily fit on a smartphone. I doubt that having hundreds or thousands of such devices on the hull of a starship would present a problem.

Has humanity not considered using a similar system with current cloaking technology to replace windows or add armored shutters to their ships?

[Arioch]

In a previous thread Ariochyou mentioned

Today, a high-quality digital camera is a component that costs something like $20, and that can easily fit on a smartphone. I doubt that having hundreds or thousands of such devices on the hull of a starship would present a problem.

Has humanity not considered using a similar system with current cloaking technology to replace windows or add armored shutters to their ships?

Well, a realistic spacecraft probably wouldn't have windows, but windows weren't the reason the Bellarmine was destroyed. They were cut into pieces by a plasma focus. And again, Bellarmine is a scout, and really wasn't designed for combat.

Stealth features aren't that useful in space, because the engines put out so much energy.

[lostnomad]

Ha ha no
I have been around through 6 computer crashes and hard ware changes, a forum migration, blocked by bot protection, and completely forgetting my previous account info in the 10 or 11 years I have been around here.

Stealth in open space doesn't happen. All the tech I have seen only covers one form of detection and magnifies its presence in another form.

I thinking more along the lines of keeping the walls or shutters covering windows of the ship invisible to the occupants within using something like the invisible cloak metamaterials even if it is vastly inferior to Loroi 3d displays.

Just as a way to say having windows isn't so bad, because alot of the concept work I see are plastered with flying office buildings in ~ SpAcE~ ...

[RedDwarfIV]

Thing is, if you can make RADAR bounce off, then you've prevented the enemy from getting your range. If your engines aren't running, leaving only radiators (what do Terran ships use for radiators? They don't have hybrid pylon/radiator 'wings' like Loroi ships do) then the enemy only knows your direction. You could be a small object producing a small amount of heat up close, or a very large object producing a large amount of heat from far away.

Its not so much 'stealth' as in 'scanner misinformation'. Like how in Babylon 5, the Minbari spacecraft weren't invisible, they just messed up the human ships' sensors.

[GeoModder]

Thing is, if you can make RADAR bounce off, then you've prevented the enemy from getting your range.

Parallax observation from different vantage points?