Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

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Philly
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by Philly »

The Terran's use fusion reactors which require hydrogen or at least some form of hydrogen to function, among other things. Do they keep storage containers as their main source or do they collect their hydrogen from the Universe since it is so abundant?

NOMAD
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by NOMAD »

cacambo43 wrote:oh. (?) I hadn't seen it mentioned or written out so it took me by surprise.

CJSF
no Cacambo43, that version of outsider never saw the light of a comic page, ending up on the editing floor (or PC/MAC trash/recycle bin or backstory notes :roll: ). The current story is the one Arioch has been showing us for the past 10+ years of so. Only a prologue and one chapter complete, with chapter 2 ongoing, BUT those here are a patience sort and have suck with the comic. and yes even the forums have gone silence for a time (or very little activity IIRC). Their more active in the summer then during the school year. I joined when outsider it was at page 38 :) and I lurk more than post (check my average) so I've been around and seen the lulls in activity. This is a normal part of the comic as Arioch RL doesn't always allow for continuous work on the comic and most here understand that and roll with it. I too can't always be online given RL as I'm sure anyone on this forum can attest too.

however, after all said and done, just watch when another WIP happens or a full page goes up, you may find it hard to keep up with all the post ( I sure did/do). Beside Aroich has been active on the forums answers questions from the many followers ( one of us. . . one of us. . . one of us. . . ;) ) just keep watch and when Arioch gives an update or hints of the future story, that usually leads to a lot of posts about it (and clarification . . . when given ). IE the Loroi and Terrain Q/A section have been quiet active for the past 3 months or so. Their a large extra section ( top bar, 4 forth from left) on the main page you can look through to pass the time or the answer your questions about a variety of topics ( ship class, technology of outsider and how its works).

and to add my two cents: Arioch does have a point about tech levels, each race has their own level of adaptation/research. humanity doesn't have much options in terms of R/D (no time and too low in comparison to the major combatants) and has to think about what it could provide to either combatant. As notes by Alex in late chapter 1 the 51st Loroi strike squadron has about the same amount of ships of the whole terrain TCA and scout force combined, and these ship have shields and advanced in every way possible. Think if a WW1 tank (humanity) went up against a modern Main battle tank of today (Loroi/Umaik) and ask what could the poor WW1 tank crew would be able to do).

Their was a topic in the WIP discussion or a separate one that look into what humanity could provide and/or what the Loroi could give to humanity but it happen a while ago ( or was it a forum ago :? ). IIRC humanity does have territory that could be used by either faction to "flank" the current stalemate and make the war more mobile (as it was in the earlier phase of the war). The Loroi could outfit some of our ships with their tech, but it would not bring humanity ship up to their level ( power requirements and the need to build more ships). it would be easier for the Loroi to give us ships but the Loroi don't really give away ships (besides they need everyone they can produce/ keep flying for the war).Given the lack of FTL com's Alex is going to have to make choice that will effect humanity and the results of the Loroi/Umaik war (as was hinted at).

The whole generation thing is a way of judging tech development ( IE computers, phones, military hardware) and is base off an older RPG tech level the Arioch used to use GRUPS link here http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/tech_level.html ( in fact, if im not wrong outsider characters were base on that old RPG system as a way to quantify the characters and no we've asked to see them all and only got one or two :cry: beside most are out of date).

any other questions or things you would like to know about. ( and yes I'll be brief next time)
Last edited by NOMAD on Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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NOMAD
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by NOMAD »

Philly wrote:The Terran's use fusion reactors which require hydrogen or at least some form of hydrogen to function, among other things. Do they keep storage containers as their main source or do they collect their hydrogen from the Universe since it is so abundant?
it was shown in the comic that the human ships do have fuel reserve on ships (in the prologue, the scout ships blows up with 5000 tons of fuel). While it would be easier to refuel at fleet base (given the hydrogen infrastructure is present and fuel stored in bulk), ). but a mobile collection would be a good idea and would require special equipment that might be bulky but allow some toping off of the fuel containers. Hydrogen is the most common element but IIRC its not always easy to collect.
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Arioch
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

cacambo43 wrote:
Arioch wrote: Anecdotally, the predecessor story to Outsider, which was about a Human civil war in which they had more or less the same technological level as the major combatants in Outsider do, was set in 2384.
What story is this? Is this something you're written already? Where is it?
Beginning in high school, I started working on a science fiction story/setting that over the years became kind of a giant vat that I poured all of my science fiction ideas into. It changed a lot over the course of about 10 years from a kind of space opera that was trying really hard to be Space Cruiser Yamato, into a hard science fiction story that was trying really hard to be The Mote in God's Eye. Some bits of it were out written as prose and there was some visual design done for it, but it never really knew what it wanted to be, and never really came together as a story, even though there were some interesting things about the setting. When I started working on Outsider, I cannibalized some of this setting to help set the groundwork, which is one of the reasons why Humanity's worlds and government have a lot more detail than the story strictly demands.
Philly wrote:The Terran's use fusion reactors which require hydrogen or at least some form of hydrogen to function, among other things. Do they keep storage containers as their main source or do they collect their hydrogen from the Universe since it is so abundant?
I think most fusion reactors at this tech level would require special isotopes such as deuterium or helium-3 to work properly, so the fuel would have to be refined beforehand and carried on-board.

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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by cacambo43 »

Thanks for the explanation, Arioch. I guess I was had been wondering where the others' had heard of it, if it wasn't ever written out properly, but sounds like it's basically leaked out over the years on the forum (the fact that it had been part of this "vat" of ideas, I mean), with parts making it onto the Insider pages.

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elorran
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by elorran »

Arioch wrote: I think most fusion reactors at this tech level would require special isotopes such as deuterium or helium-3 to work properly, so the fuel would have to be refined beforehand and carried on-board.
Deuterium-Lithium 6 mix? Ready to go fusion pallets, just add catalyst.

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Mr Bojangles
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by Mr Bojangles »

Arioch wrote:
Mr Bojangles wrote:I think of it like this: It's not that the Loroi can't rapidly advance, it's just that humanity in Outsider (as with actual humanity) has built a set of systems that favor rapid scientific and technological development.
That's a pretty good way of putting it. We tend to view technological progression as a steady climb, but it has really only been that way in Western civilization and since the Renaissance; prior to that and in other cultures around the world, technological progression was a slow, grinding crawl with fits and starts, sometimes losing ground when a civilization collapsed. The Enlightenment built a culture increasingly based on knowledge and innovation, and the benefits today are easy to recognize. However, China and most of Asia, despite early technological leadership in the millennia BCE, advanced very slowly over the next several thousand years. This wasn't because they weren't smart, but rather because their society didn't reward innovation and actively discouraged change. When progress became desirable, Japan advanced from TL4 to TL6 in about 50 years. It also helped that they had an example to follow.

The supposition in Outsider is that this slower, less steady mode of progression is the norm for most alien cultures. The Loroi in particular, while clever and creative in their own way, do not enjoy technological progression for its own sake the way we have come to. They have a rigid society that resists change, and longer lifespans mean longer generations. The Loroi technological milestones are sometimes misleading; when the first Loroi satellite was launched in 475, for example, they had already possessed the necessary technology for quite some time, but it hadn't occurred to anyone to try. Humans, conversely, were killing themselves trying to get off the ground long before the technology was ready.

That said, however, I don't think it matters much whether it would have taken 100 years or 500 for Humanity to catch up on their own; they don't have that much time, and they're no longer progressing in a vaccuum.
Spoken for truth. In the modern world (especially in the West), we take it granted that technology advances quickly and assume that that is just how it works. But, it's really not so. Chart it out over history and you'll see several spikes and hills, but most of it will be wide valleys. The steep growth curve is very new.

All that being said, yeah, the rate of technological progress for Outsider humanity is a rather academic consideration, isn't it? The Loroi and Umiak are practically at the gates; there's no more time left.
Arioch wrote:[Anecdotally, the predecessor story to Outsider, which was about a Human civil war in which they had more or less the same technological level as the major combatants in Outsider do, was set in 2384.]
Well, my estimate was only off by a century... for a completely different story. I've seen futurists be way more wrong! :P

NOMAD
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by NOMAD »

thxs Arioch that makes much better ( and shorter response :oops: )
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junk
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by junk »

Arioch wrote:
No, I'm just saying that providing electrical power to the ship is a secondary function of the main reactors.

Ships will also have some kind of auxiliary power source to provide electricity when the mains are offline, as well as batteries for storage.
I presume, that their secondary power might be some sort nuclear batteries, similar, albeit vastly more advanced, than what is currently on the curiosity. Long term, reliable and safe.
Mr Bojangles wrote: Humanity developed jump tech in 2086 and developed its first particle weaponry sometime in the mid 22nd Century. So, humans went from TL7 (1957 and our first satellite, as you point out) to the edge of TL10 (blaster tech) in around a 200 hundred years. Much, much faster than the major combatants of this story. And, it's not like war and the threat of annihilation/subjugation will slow down development. The effect will be quite the opposite.
Actually a long term war of annihiltion will do just that. What wars do, is spur on the application of theories, but the longer a war is, the sooner you will end up running out of theories to apply. One could assume, that if ww2 went on for something like 30 years, tech developement would start to stall.

What you instead got, was a cold war that allowed manpower and resources for actual research.

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saint of m
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by saint of m »

Given how Jardin saw how both sides fight, could he figure out a way to outmanuver either side in a jiffy? Say a surpsie Umiake scout fleet finds them.

I'm asking this as to see how much of a "chess master" he is.

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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by RedDwarfIV »

saint of m wrote:Given how Jardin saw how both sides fight, could he figure out a way to outmanuver either side in a jiffy? Say a surpsie Umiake scout fleet finds them.

I'm asking this as to see how much of a "chess master" he is.
Whilst I imagine he'll develop that capacity in time (Colonial Fleet wanted him for that reason), he's only just been introduced to a whole new level of combat with massively different spacecraft capabilities and weapons. He's not going to immediately spot something experienced commanders like Stillstorm hadn't noticed. Most likely it'd involve coming up with entirely new tactics.
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

One advantage Alex has is that he can observe and judge the Umiak's motivations as an unbiased outsider. I mean, yes, their overall motivation to defeat the Loroi is obvious, but in smaller scale situations, the Loroi haven't seemed particularly adept at understanding "what game the shells are playing at."

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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

junk wrote:Actually a long term war of annihiltion will do just that. What wars do, is spur on the application of theories, but the longer a war is, the sooner you will end up running out of theories to apply. One could assume, that if ww2 went on for something like 30 years, tech developement would start to stall.
Possibly. You also get brain drain as the new generation tends more towards dying in the trenches instead of going to college.
saint of m wrote:Given how Jardin saw how both sides fight, could he figure out a way to outmanuver either side in a jiffy? Say a surpsie Umiake scout fleet finds them.

I'm asking this as to see how much of a "chess master" he is.
Well that would probably be talking about major plot points so I doubt a complete answer will be forthcoming. That being said I believe from what we've been told that that is essentially what his position in the story is, the person that gives the Loroi the key to winning the war. The exact form of that key is up for debate, but given his training and background it's not much of stretch to say it's going to be tactical advice.

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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by discord »

fred: actually, i think it's more along the lines of strategic advice, possibly with some tactics involved, but the bottom line is you can't win a war by playing defense.

actually, it seems you can, if the other side are commies, but then again, commie economy is on the rise while capitalist is kinda crashing... so who knows.

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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by junk »

I've got a small question about human uniforms and scafanders in particular. We've seen the fairly bulky ones used by the scout fleet. Does the navy itself have access to less bulky, more modern ones in lieu of their probably better financing or do they share most of this equipment with the scout fleet.

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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

I generally don't answer hypothetical questions about what might or might not happen in the comic.
junk wrote:I've got a small question about human uniforms and scafanders in particular. We've seen the fairly bulky ones used by the scout fleet. Does the navy itself have access to less bulky, more modern ones in lieu of their probably better financing or do they share most of this equipment with the scout fleet.
I've never heard the term "scafanders" before (even after a web search), but I'll guess that you mean spacesuits. The Fleet ones would look pretty much the same as the ones you've seen.

The human technology is not meant to look advanced or ultra-tech; humans are the primitives in this milieu.

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elorran
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by elorran »

1. life preserver consisting of a sleeveless jacket of buoyant or inflatable design.
2. a weighted and hermetically sealed garment supplied with air; worn by underwater divers.

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/nl/scafander

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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by RedDwarfIV »

Colonial Fleet may get more funding overall (it has to build those cruisers, after all) but the Scout Corps is almost always doing stuff while Colonial Fleet sits around in dock running simulations. I imagine the Scout Corps is better funded for its size. They needed the modern equipment more, and they probably had a lot more political backing until the war came along, what with their actually doing useful stuff.
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by GeoModder »

RedDwarfIV wrote:Colonial Fleet may get more funding overall (it has to build those cruisers, after all) but the Scout Corps is almost always doing stuff while Colonial Fleet sits around in dock running simulations. I imagine the Scout Corps is better funded for its size. They needed the modern equipment more, and they probably had a lot more political backing until the war came along, what with their actually doing useful stuff.
The heavy cruisers mosttimes float around in dock. I reckon the lighter units like the trio of light cruisers and the tincans see lots and lots of the local stellar neighbourhood.
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Re: Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

Not necessarily. More than the heavies for sure, but operating the light cruisers is likely expensive as well.

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