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Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thread 
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
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They are, but they can't operate on their own. To deploy the gunboats you'd need a light cruiser or other ship with tow points. So a light destroyer group would be useful for recon or other missions where deployment in force is not required.

Light destroyers good reconnaissance missions. What do they do in battle with a lot of medium and heavy vehicles?

Quote:
Light destroyers are also more durable than heavy gunboats, and can be equipped with bolt-on torpedo racks.

Light destroyers durable heavy gunboats, but not twice.
Efficiency torpedoes low.
Light Destroyer should bear FTL drive system and interstellar navigation. This increases their price. And reduces the volume and weight for useful systems onboard.
For scoutship rationally. But it is not rational to send the ships in the battle, when medium and heavy vehicles a lot, and they can bring the sub-ships.
Why light destroyers may not be the same sub-ships as gunboats? Why do they have with their own ships FTL drive?

Quote:
Perhaps, but perhaps not. We don't know if those same design principles would apply to building starships, or to an alien's logic. Either way it's obviously seemed to work for the Umiak so far, considering how many ships they have.

The difficulty of combining different systems in the vehicle - it is not logic, but the physics. This means that Umiak spend on the development of projects of ships and weapons systems greater intellectual resources than Loroi.


Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:56 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
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Ok, that's nice, I guess? Not sure how it is relevant to the discussion in any way.

Umiak HXLR Torpedo. Max Acc. (g) - 50. Fuel Endurance at maximum thrust - 80 min. The distance traveled by the end of acceleration - 5760 Mm. It is the distance of firing without a pause in the engine. By accelerating target range will be less, but still more than 1000 Mm.
Speed at the end of acceleration - 2.4 Mm/sec, 144 Mm/sec. Loroi Laser Autocannon time to shoot twice.
And sending delivered.

Quote:
That is making some rather basic assumptions about the cost of various components. Heavy gunboats need a mothership. Motherships are expensive too.

Interstellar navigation simple and cheap? FTL drive is cheap and publicly available? The author's right to set the properties of the universe.
Umiak gunboats worn by all medium and heavy ships.


Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
hi hi

jack wrote:
Umiak HXLR Torpedo. >snip<
Yes, that is roughly the acceleration profile of an Umiak torpedo. I still fail to see how that is relevant to sensors and communication lag at the speed of light. At the end of a full burn, the HXLR torpedo has about 38.4 seconds of communication lag between the firing ship and the projectile.

jack wrote:
Interstellar navigation simple and cheap?

Interstellar travel isn't simple. Whether it is cheap or expensive depends on what you are comparing it to. All of the other components on a space warship are also incredibly expensive.

Umiak small craft are often there for the sole purpose of distracting the Loroi until their larger craft get in range. Every gunboat that a medium or heavy craft carries will reduce that craft's own utility.

jack wrote:
This means that Umiak spend on the development of projects of ships and weapons systems greater intellectual resources than Loroi.
This is like saying that a sword is superior to a rifle, because the sword does not expend resources every time it is used.


Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:53 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Jack wrote:
Why do they need? Two heavy gunboats have the same firepower with greater acceleration. They do not need a super-light engine, so they are cheaper.

Because ships with their own jump drives can do things gunboats can't do, such as scout the next system or chase an enemy into the next system with other fleet elements (while the gunboats must rendezvous and dock with their tenders). The Umiak prefer to have both options. The Umiak like maximum flexibility and dislike overspecialization. Umiak fleets are deliberately heterogeneous.

Jack wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Each engineering team within a shipyard will probably create successive versions of the same ship, reusing much of the previous design pattern, but with a slightly different team (some of them having joined the crew of the last ship and been replaced with new staff with new ideas), and perhaps slightly different requirements or parts availability or available space or available time.

The task of such standardization is very complicated.
Creating projects warships compared to the task - creating quadrocopters compared with supersonic fighters.

This is not a very apt analogy. Helicopters and jets are quite different units, built from different components, with completely different aerodynamics and performance envelopes. Any change in the shape of an atmospheric aircraft is critical and requires lots of simulation, testing and refinement, but change in the shape of a spacecraft is comparatively trivial. Two Type-H destroyers made from mostly the same components but perhaps with slightly different weapons and equipment and in a slightly different shape are not all that different from each other and use the same design principles. This is not like designing a new supersonic aircraft from scratch. It's assembling a customized version of same basic pattern that this team has built dozens of times before. And you wouldn't have a team switch from quadrocopters to supersonic fighters anyway; those would be different teams. You'd have each team continue to design and build versions of the things they know best.

Umiak engineers are obsessive-compulsive perfectionists; even if you tell them to make this new destroyer just like the last one and give them the same materials, they can't stop themselves from tweaking things and customizing this and that. This is part of why they send part of the engineering team with the crew of the ship when it launches; some of them just can't let it go, and continue to tweak the ship as part of its crew. And the new replacement members of the shipbuilding team have new ideas on how this destroyer design could be better, and so it continues...

Smaller items like torpedoes and small gunboats can be standardized to a greater extent because they are build like components on mostly-automated assembly lines, but even here different groups like to do things their own way.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Is this non-standarization something common in the umiak culture? and they just overcome with massive dedication to production and complete disregard to anything that may be an obstacle to it? sounds like a design phylosophy that wouldn't start at the highest level out of nowhere.


Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Argron wrote:
Is this non-standarization something common in the umiak culture? and they just overcome with massive dedication to production and complete disregard to anything that may be an obstacle to it? sounds like a design phylosophy that wouldn't start at the highest level out of nowhere.

Yes. Decentralization, flexibility, and redundancy are all core elements of Umiak philosophy.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

jack wrote:
Umiak HXLR Torpedo. >snip<
Yes, that is roughly the acceleration profile of an Umiak torpedo. I still fail to see how that is relevant to sensors and communication lag at the speed of light. At the end of a full burn, the HXLR torpedo has about 38.4 seconds of communication lag between the firing ship and the projectile.

As it is written in the article above.
Far away from vehicle and close to the target self-induced torpedo.
At the beginning and the middle portion of acceleration the torpedo guidance commands from the ship.
Delay for 40 seconds and search for targets at a distance of light-minutes is not so difficult task, as the FTL drive and acceleration of 30 g of the ship weight of 400 000 tons.

icekatze wrote:
jack wrote:
Interstellar navigation simple and cheap?

Interstellar travel isn't simple. Whether it is cheap or expensive depends on what you are comparing it to. All of the other components on a space warship are also incredibly expensive.

Other components have a light destroyer and two heavy gunboats are identical. Gunboats only two short-range navigation system required. Early warning purposes for them, as for the torpedoes, the carrier can perform.

icekatze wrote:
Umiak small craft are often there for the sole purpose of distracting the Loroi until their larger craft get in range. Every gunboat that a medium or heavy craft carries will reduce that craft's own utility.

Umiak have no other sub-ships, except gunboats. Those functions that Loroi carry passengers, cargo and landing shuttles - at Umiak must fulfill "gunboats".
I do estimations on Frequency ships, it turned out.
Umiak superiority in space naval complex:
1 Type-KK Command Cruiser, 3С + 48 extra long-range torpedoes.
2 Type-K Heavy Cruiser, guidance system extra long-range torpedoes + 24 extra long-range torpedoes.
1 KTKh Strike Cruiser, group protection 48 blister "Rockeye" x 30 AMM "Gimlet" = 1460 AMM.
1 Type-KS Missile Cruiser, short range torpedo fire.
1 Type-HS Missile Destroyer, mid-range torpedo fire.
1 Type-Kh Light Cruiser, long range torpedo fire.
4 Type-H Heavy Destroyer, short range fire and immediate protection.
1 Type-Z Specialty Destroyer, distant early warning.
1 Type-G Gunboat Tender, support sub-ships.
Division gunboats:
4 Light Destroyer.
8 Heavy Gunboat.
8 Gunboat.

Common - 1
Very Common - 2
Ubiquitous - 4
Nightmarish - 8.

icekatze wrote:
jack wrote:
This means that Umiak spend on the development of projects of ships and weapons systems greater intellectual resources than Loroi.
This is like saying that a sword is superior to a rifle, because the sword does not expend resources every time it is used.

I do not understand you.


Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:30 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Arioch wrote:
Jack wrote:
Why do they need? Two heavy gunboats have the same firepower with greater acceleration. They do not need a super-light engine, so they are cheaper.

Because ships with their own jump drives can do things gunboats can't do, such as scout the next system or chase an enemy into the next system with other fleet elements (while the gunboats must rendezvous and dock with their tenders). The Umiak prefer to have both options. The Umiak like maximum flexibility and dislike overspecialization. Umiak fleets are deliberately heterogeneous.

But here the battle of what to throw? Superluminal motion does not need, behind the fleet with 10 super heavy and heavy 30 ships, ships-carriers for gunboat in abundance.
Why use more expensive because of the FTL drive light destroyers, if it is possible to use a gunboat, and their capacity will be enough?
Maybe, though destroyers do not have a FTL drive, and then use them in the fight rationally? ;)

Arioch wrote:
This is not a very apt analogy. Helicopters and jets are quite different units, built from different components, with completely different aerodynamics and performance envelopes. Any change in the shape of an atmospheric aircraft is critical and requires lots of simulation, testing and refinement, but change in the shape of a spacecraft is comparatively trivial. Two Type-H destroyers made from mostly the same components but perhaps with slightly different weapons and equipment and in a slightly different shape are not all that different from each other and use the same design principles. This is not like designing a new supersonic aircraft from scratch. It's assembling a customized version of same basic pattern that this team has built dozens of times before. And you wouldn't have a team switch from quadrocopters to supersonic fighters anyway; those would be different teams. You'd have each team continue to design and build versions of the things they know best.

When China copied ground missile launcher Soviet SS-N-2B «Styx», they change the angle of the windshield. And when starting the windshield was flying shards.
The modern maritime combat ship - a hundred antennas. Move any one meter, and the need to check the correct operation of all the others. And the construction of superstructures and masts themselves, weapons systems and everything else, standing at the height of the antennas themselves - affect their work.
The spacecraft will be more difficult, its energy systems more. Therefore, collect the spaceship will be more difficult.
The standardization of all systems of the ship in all possible combinations of the problem of great complexity. For the sake of creating a battle fleet to solve it is not rational.


Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:53 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Jack wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Because ships with their own jump drives can do things gunboats can't do, such as scout the next system or chase an enemy into the next system with other fleet elements (while the gunboats must rendezvous and dock with their tenders). The Umiak prefer to have both options. The Umiak like maximum flexibility and dislike overspecialization. Umiak fleets are deliberately heterogeneous.

But here the battle of what to throw? Superluminal motion does not need, behind the fleet with 10 super heavy and heavy 30 ships, ships-carriers for gunboat in abundance.
Why use more expensive because of the FTL drive light destroyers, if it is possible to use a gunboat, and their capacity will be enough?
Maybe, though destroyers do not have a FTL drive, and then use them in the fight rationally? ;)
You use light destroyers so that you can chase the enemy without slowing your medium and heavy ships. Gunboats require the medium and heavy ships to stop while the gunboats are docking.

Gunboats are like short-range drones. You can get a very large force very quickly when you use them, but if you need to go somewhere else you have to spend time collecting them first.

Jack wrote:
Arioch wrote:
This is not a very apt analogy. Helicopters and jets are quite different units, built from different components, with completely different aerodynamics and performance envelopes. Any change in the shape of an atmospheric aircraft is critical and requires lots of simulation, testing and refinement, but change in the shape of a spacecraft is comparatively trivial. Two Type-H destroyers made from mostly the same components but perhaps with slightly different weapons and equipment and in a slightly different shape are not all that different from each other and use the same design principles. This is not like designing a new supersonic aircraft from scratch. It's assembling a customized version of same basic pattern that this team has built dozens of times before. And you wouldn't have a team switch from quadrocopters to supersonic fighters anyway; those would be different teams. You'd have each team continue to design and build versions of the things they know best.

When China copied ground missile launcher Soviet SS-N-2B «Styx», they change the angle of the windshield. And when starting the windshield was flying shards.
The modern maritime combat ship - a hundred antennas. Move any one meter, and the need to check the correct operation of all the others. And the construction of superstructures and masts themselves, weapons systems and everything else, standing at the height of the antennas themselves - affect their work.
The spacecraft will be more difficult, its energy systems more. Therefore, collect the spaceship will be more difficult.
The standardization of all systems of the ship in all possible combinations of the problem of great complexity. For the sake of creating a battle fleet to solve it is not rational.
Modern ships are semi-standardized, but almost none of them are identical. When you go beyond a certain scale, you're already spending enough resources that customization is not a big thing.

As for antennas, we invented computers for just such problems.


Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:27 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
hi hi

You don't get anything for free in space. If you want to bring along smaller ships that don't have engines, you have to build a bigger engine on the ship that is carrying them.


Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:44 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
We don't know if there are base resources necessary to be jump able, which do not increase linearly with size of the jumped matter.
It may well be that you need 10x (x=energy and/or ressources) for the first 10 tons jumpable shipmatter, but only 15x for 20 tons jumpable matter, and possibly only 20x for 40 tons jumpable matter. Then the limiting factor in ship size would be the sub-lightspeed engines, and materials needed to actually build the large ship, and possibly the control of the energy reactors and engines.

So it may well be cost-efficient to not build more smaller engines, but instead increase the size of the jumpengines for the capital tow ships.

We do not have sufficient data to do good guesses.
For tactical reasons alone I'd prefer to have jumpable gunboats, but I am not the admiral/tactician at work here.
And in different combat situations different solutions are preferable.

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Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:23 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Krulle wrote:
We don't know if there are base resources necessary to be jump able, which do not increase linearly with size of the jumped matter.
It may well be that you need 10x (x=energy and/or ressources) for the first 10 tons jumpable shipmatter, but only 15x for 20 tons jumpable matter, and possibly only 20x for 40 tons jumpable matter. Then the limiting factor in ship size would be the sub-lightspeed engines, and materials needed to actually build the large ship, and possibly the control of the energy reactors and engines.

So it may well be cost-efficient to not build more smaller engines, but instead increase the size of the jumpengines for the capital tow ships.

We do not have sufficient data to do good guesses.
For tactical reasons alone I'd prefer to have jumpable gunboats, but I am not the admiral/tactician at work here.
And in different combat situations different solutions are preferable.


Krulle, have you read this article in the Insider?

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Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:11 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Read it a while ago, did not have it in my mind anymore.

thanks.
The energy cost of a hyperspace jump is proportional to the mass of the ship.

So, in this respect I was wrong.

Still, that may refer to the energy converted and available to the jump.
There may be additional requirements to make the energy jump-available.
(E.g. converting power plant output to jump energy. This may lead to a base-loss per jump engine. Just the theoretical energy needed for the jump is mass-linear - but the practical may not be, depending on jump drive efficiency.
The mentioned light flashes may be indicative of base losses.)

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Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:28 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Absalom wrote:
You use light destroyers so that you can chase the enemy without slowing your medium and heavy ships. Gunboats require the medium and heavy ships to stop while the gunboats are docking.

Gunboats are like short-range drones. You can get a very large force very quickly when you use them, but if you need to go somewhere else you have to spend time collecting them first.

Modern ships are semi-standardized, but almost none of them are identical. When you go beyond a certain scale, you're already spending enough resources that customization is not a big thing.

As for antennas, we invented computers for just such problems.

What is the amount of fuel on board the gunboat? If it is comparable with the supply of fuel HXLR torpedoes, it is a few hours on full power acceleration, up to percent of the speed of light, up to ten thousand Mm traveled during acceleration. To fight for half an hour a stock has a sufficient reserve for the prosecution, it seems to me?

Modern ships are not identical, because the pace of construction is very slow compared to the pace of technological progress. List of new ship systems made in Russia for the last 30 years will be long. In the world of comics in the 30 years of war created two new types of weapons: impulse cannons, medium-range plasma focus. So it is natural that each of our ship carries its own set of systems. But why such a situation with the Umiak ships?

The computer can check the configuration of systems. The first rule of working with computers: "Garbage in - garbage out." So it must be the one who will make the configuration of systems to verify the computer.


Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:03 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

You don't get anything for free in space. If you want to bring along smaller ships that don't have engines, you have to build a bigger engine on the ship that is carrying them.

Big ship torpedo carries only a few thousand tons. If the ship has a mass of 300 000 - 500 000 tonnes, its maximum load supplies 100 000 - 150 000 tons, while the normal 20-30% less, almost always any ship could take a few gunboats in tow.


Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:12 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
hi hi

I can't even tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing. Everything has an opportunity cost. Gunboats, armor, screens, plasma canon, radiators, reactors, engines; everything. However, when it comes to armor, larger ships have better surface area to volume ratios, and have a desirable efficiency. Smaller ships have the benefit of being more expendable.

In my experience, the first rule of using computers is, "Save Often."


Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:53 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
What is the appearance of Barsam ships and "Prophet's Reason" in particular?

Would be in the comics Historians ships and how they look about?


Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:05 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
I'm still finalizing the design of the Prophet's Reason, but you'll see it soon.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

I can't even tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing. Everything has an opportunity cost. Gunboats, armor, screens, plasma canon, radiators, reactors, engines; everything. However, when it comes to armor, larger ships have better surface area to volume ratios, and have a desirable efficiency. Smaller ships have the benefit of being more expendable.

In my experience, the first rule of using computers is, "Save Often."

Hello!
Yes, you're right, everything has a cost.
Advantages gunboats:
No FTL drive.
No interstellar navigation system.
Short time of autonomous flight. Less inventory, easier life support systems. Less demand for self-repair.
With the support from the mothership does not need long-range sensors. The communication system of low power.
Protection from small spacecraft likely to be on the same principles that the aircraft: armor protects only critical units and systems.

A good rule. But parallelism is difficult to use it.


Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:22 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
hi hi

Gunboats still need an FTL drive, carried by the mothership, which in turn, lowers the mothership's own fighting potential.

A fleet is going to be using roughly the same interstellar navigation between them so that they all arrive in the same place, and has more to do with having accurate maps of the space between two systems than it is having massive systems on a combat ship.

Detecting things like spacecraft at long distances in space is not very difficult, even with today's technology. The hard part about sensors on a combat ship is hardening them against the kinds of extreme radiation that will be unleashed during combat. Every ship that wants to see where it is firing will need to have some advanced sensors that won't get burnt out.

The gunboat's short endurance is offset by the fact that the mothership has to carry extra in order to tow, repair, and support the crew on it. Delta V = Exhaust Velocity * natural logarithm (total mass / empty mass)

Protection on spacecraft at the tech level in the Outsider universe requires protecting everything, in order to avoid being defeated by near misses or unfocused attacks. An unfocused beam might not make a dent in legit armor plating, but a millimeter thick tin can construction style is vulnerable. The basic Umiak strategy with torpedoes and gunboats seems to be to distract the Loroi defenses while the heavy ships get close. It is to the Umiak's benefit to design gunboats that are able to force the Loroi defenders to use a full powered attack to destroy them


Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:47 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
FTL drive the mother ship does not need to accelerate 30+ g gunboats.

The advantage of light destroyers with FTL drive - the ability to conduct autonomous mission? Then each of them has to have its own system of interstellar navigation.

On the state of the art electronic warfare makes the detection of cosmic purposes is extremely difficult. Look equipment of heavy intercontinental ballistic missile like "Satan": hundreds of light decoys per warhead, a dozen quasi-heavy decoys, shoots all the time flying bullets passive jamming, station setting group active jamming. Most stealth warheads. Selection of trajectories, difficult to detect and track separation stage and warheads.

Gunboat has the advantage of allowing you to quickly accelerate only a small piece of the weight of the mother ship. And only a small part of the same to substitute a dagger fire.
And at the same time on the "gunboat" can carry bullets, beans and bandages. And "consumers" of these products. Well, and other supplies, parts and passengers. What is required for ships permanently. And other vehicles have Umiak for these shipments, except for "gunboat", no.
Tsiolkovsky rocket equation I know, honestly. :)

A serious hit will not sustain any ship. My favorite creation from Arioch, umiak HXLR torpedo at full speed has the kinetic energy of a nuclear explosion in gigatons of TNT. Area substance evaporation in the explosion will be of such a size that the largest ship Loroi will look like a poor creature, "Bellarmine" after being hit.
Fly and fight like a fighter Loroi and gunboats Umiak even have screens, and were themselves larger than the same light interceptors.


Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:34 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
hi hi

FTL travel and sub-light travel are largely separate systems in the Outsider universe. Other than establishing the ship's real-space trajectory, the thrusters are not the same system that allows them to go faster than light. The mothership does need to have a bigger FTL drive than a ship of the same size without gunboats would.

Electronic warfare can blind sensors at close range for short periods of time, but it does not make cosmic detection difficult. Decoys don't work in deep space, because they don't accelerate with the same profile as the real target. Even in orbit, our current tech level on Earth can quickly detect and track every single rocket, stage, and piece of debris without difficulty. It may take some time to analyze what each object is when they are not accelerating, but the moment any piece of previously inert debris accelerates, it raises a very rapid response.

Launching gunboats does not protect the mothership from attack. You'll notice that the Umiak that launched the gunboats also charged at the Loroi lines. Unarmed supply vessels are prime targets for the faster Loroi raiders.


Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
Jack wrote:
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

I can't even tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing. Everything has an opportunity cost. Gunboats, armor, screens, plasma canon, radiators, reactors, engines; everything. However, when it comes to armor, larger ships have better surface area to volume ratios, and have a desirable efficiency. Smaller ships have the benefit of being more expendable.

In my experience, the first rule of using computers is, "Save Often."

Hello!
Yes, you're right, everything has a cost.
Advantages gunboats:
No FTL drive.

Jack wrote:
No interstellar navigation system.
This will not require additional machinery, just the normal nav system + FTL engines. No savings.

Jack wrote:
Short time of autonomous flight. Less inventory, easier life support systems. Less demand for self-repair.

Jack wrote:
With the support from the mothership does not need long-range sensors. The communication system of low power.
Wrong. FTL sensors do not exist, so long-range sensors will either be survey equipment that combat ships wouldn't carry anyways, or would be necessary for in-system combat. No savings.

So, the advantages of gunships are the following:
No FTL engine, and
Less self-support == less duplicate equipment across the fleet.

Jack wrote:
FTL drive the mother ship does not need to accelerate 30+ g gunboats.
Something has to accelerate them though. No savings.

Jack wrote:
On the state of the art electronic warfare makes the detection of cosmic purposes is extremely difficult. Look equipment of heavy intercontinental ballistic missile like "Satan": hundreds of light decoys per warhead, a dozen quasi-heavy decoys, shoots all the time flying bullets passive jamming, station setting group active jamming. Most stealth warheads. Selection of trajectories, difficult to detect and track separation stage and warheads.

Gunboat has the advantage of allowing you to quickly accelerate only a small piece of the weight of the mother ship. And only a small part of the same to substitute a dagger fire.
And at the same time on the "gunboat" can carry bullets, beans and bandages. And "consumers" of these products. Well, and other supplies, parts and passengers. What is required for ships permanently. And other vehicles have Umiak for these shipments, except for "gunboat", no.
Tsiolkovsky rocket equation I know, honestly. :)
There's a saying on this forum: there is no stealth in space. Stealth technology focuses on hiding in the middle of something else, but space doesn't normally give you anything to hide in, so it just doesn't work.


Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:22 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
The tow ship having to have extra-sized engines also means extra-sized reactors to supply sufficient power to the engines.
The extra-sized reactors can surely be used in combat.

This may not be that expensive for the mothership anway, to be able to power all weapons the reactor might be there anyway.
We do not know how much larger an FTL-engine must be when the mass increases. So the extra-space and extra-weight requirements may be small for the towing ship.

Tactically, a jump-capable ship has more possibilities.
But depending on proved tactics and costs, the tow-implementation may be cost efficient.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre
A jump drive consists of the jump field generator and a set of accumulators to store enough power to operate it. The power requirement scales with the mass of the ship, as does the size of the accumulators (and to a lesser extent the generator). There's no special "interstellar navigational system" that's required; you just have to follow the pre-established real-space velocity and location guidelines for a given jump link. There's a minimum amount of power required to break the surface tension of space-time, so there's a lower limit (for a given engine technology) on how small a starship can be. Given the engine technologies of the major combatants, you need to have enough power to push a 6 kt mass at about 30g to be able to fill a jump drive's accumulators (in a short enough time before they overheat and burn out) to make it work. So a minimal functional starship tends to be about 100m long; a minimal unmanned "jump torpedo" might be 80m long (though it's not clear what such a thing would be useful for). If you want to have weapons and supplies and decent crew accommodations for medium-duration missions, that size grows to 120-150m.

A mothership can tow vehicles into jump as long as it has enough power. For a dedicated 300m 125kt type-G tender carrying four 2.4 kt 75m light gunboats is about a 10% increase in jump mass. But vehicle mass increases with the cube of size, so a large 120m heavy gunboat weighs in at around 6 kt. For the same tender to carry two of these heavy gunboats is a 40% increase in jump mass. Towing a single 150m 17 kt light destroyer would be an 80% jump mass increase.

Dedicated tenders are armed and follow the rest of the fleet into combat, but they can't be as well-armed as pure combat cruisers; the more daughter craft it has to tow, the less well it can fight itself. Many ships with tow linkages aren't dedicated tenders, just regular warships with linkages and extra fuel storage, and can't really handle much extra jump mass. So there's a point past which the fact that the daughter crafts' engines are not contributing to the power required to jump the increasing mother-daughter total mass starts becoming a real problem.

As gunboats get up into the 120m range, you either need to have it towed by a larger, dedicated tender, or you need to give it its own jump drives so it can jump separately and use its own engines to relieve the increasing mass burden. Some of the larger Umiak gunboats do have their own jump drives, but still need to dock with a mothership to resupply and give its crews a break.

Once you get up into the 150m range, you're a full-fledged frigate and you really need to have your own jump drive. As we discussed some time ago regarding the feasibility of salvage vessels, it's one thing to carry small vehicles into jump with you, but when you're talking about another full-size starship the power requirements get pretty daunting.

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