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Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thread
http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=884
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Author:  joestej [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Either way, since 25% of this thread is now nothing but our most recent argument, I'd say it's safe to move on to a new line of questioning...

It is quite obvious that Kikitik-27 is not a conventional Umiak commander, what with his habit of withdrawing rather than charging recklessly to his doom, etc. Even the Loroi have noticed. So my question is two-fold: how does Umiak Command view/deal with commanders like Kikitik who 'go against the grain', and is there a specific reason Kikitik is so different from other Umiak?

Author:  Jack [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

joestej wrote:
It is quite obvious that Kikitik-27 is not a conventional Umiak commander, what with his habit of withdrawing rather than charging recklessly to his doom, etc.

Somewhere there are comics on the world, where there are examples of "normal umiak" and a few fights?
When reading these statements appears confident that such comics there. :)

Author:  joestej [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Jack wrote:
joestej wrote:
It is quite obvious that Kikitik-27 is not a conventional Umiak commander, what with his habit of withdrawing rather than charging recklessly to his doom, etc.

Somewhere there are comics on the world, where there are examples of "normal umiak" and a few fights?
When reading these statements appears confident that such comics there. :)


Actually my comments are based partially off Kikitik's description on the cast page, but mostly on Stillstorm's statement when she recognizes him.

Cast Page wrote:
Kikitik-27-tikhak-tikkukit is the the self-described designation (which is almost certainly a code name) of the commander of the Umiak forces opposing Stillstorm's raider group at Naam. Known to Loroi intelligence as "The Stray," Kikitik-27 is one of the few Umiak commanders known to have survived an attrition assault mission, and it has done so at least twice. In both cases Kikitik inflicted heavy losses on the Loroi defenders, and then withdrew its forces from combat (relatively intact) when Loroi reinforcements arrived.


Stillstorm wrote:
I have faced this one before. I recognize its odd behavior. I have seen it withdraw from an unfavorable fight when the rest of its empty husks brainlessly came on until the last.

Author:  Arioch [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

joestej wrote:
It is quite obvious that Kikitik-27 is not a conventional Umiak commander, what with his habit of withdrawing rather than charging recklessly to his doom, etc. Even the Loroi have noticed. So my question is two-fold: how does Umiak Command view/deal with commanders like Kikitik who 'go against the grain', and is there a specific reason Kikitik is so different from other Umiak?

The Umiak actually dislike conformity and are actively encouraged to seek alternative solutions (within the confines of their orders), but the zeal and single-mindedness of most Umiak means that their behavior is often predictable. In particular, the attrition fleets that the Loroi see most often are crewed and led by Umiak in older vessels who have spent so long on bivouac duty that they can't contain their desire for close contact with the enemy. Umiak command is decentralized and is normally quite pleased to reward and promote clever and unconventional leaders; the problem in the Umiak style of attrition combat is to get them experience that doesn't kill them.

Kikitik-27 has caught the attention of the enemy not only for its obvious skill but because they have had the rare opportunity to see it in action more than once. Kikitik would have been a heavy captain and quincunx squadron commander during the battle of the Tasinei Ways (participating in the same action against then-Captain Stillstorm), subsequently promoted to division commander and eventually relegated to bivouac duty. After a decade of defense and patrol duty, Kikitik's division would have been inevitably flagged as declining in readiness and sent on an attrition assault. The division acquitted itself well, and returned with comparatively few losses. Then, a few years later, Kikitik appeared again leading another attrition assault. One can only imagine the internal political machinations that led to such a talented commander being spent more than once in such a manner, but like Stillstorm, Kikitik has been able to beat the odds. Whatever its previous political issues may have been, Kiktik-27 is now a high-ranking commander on an apparently important mission (that triple-size division with 10 superheavies is no suicide force).

Author:  Jack [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Arioch wrote:
Kikitik would have been a heavy captain and quincunx squadron commander... subsequently promoted to division commander and eventually relegated to bivouac duty... Kikitik's division... that triple-size division with 10 superheavies is no suicide force.

Where can I read the materials of the structure of the armed forces Umiak?

Author:  joestej [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Arioch wrote:
The Umiak actually dislike conformity and are actively encouraged to seek alternative solutions (within the confines of their orders), but the zeal and single-mindedness of most Umiak means that their behavior is often predictable. In particular, the attrition fleets that the Loroi see most often are crewed and led by Umiak in older vessels who have spent so long on bivouac duty that they can't contain their desire for close contact with the enemy. Umiak command is decentralized and is normally quite pleased to reward and promote clever and unconventional leaders; the problem in the Umiak style of attrition combat is to get them experience that doesn't kill them.

Kikitik-27 has caught the attention of the enemy not only for its obvious skill but because they have had the rare opportunity to see it in action more than once. Kikitik would have been a heavy captain and quincunx squadron commander during the battle of the Tasinei Ways (participating in the same action against then-Captain Stillstorm), subsequently promoted to division commander and eventually relegated to bivouac duty. After a decade of defense and patrol duty, Kikitik's division would have been inevitably flagged as declining in readiness and sent on an attrition assault. The division acquitted itself well, and returned with comparatively few losses. Then, a few years later, Kikitik appeared again leading another attrition assault. One can only imagine the internal political machinations that led to such a talented commander being spent more than once in such a manner, but like Stillstorm, Kikitik has been able to beat the odds. Whatever its previous political predicament may have been, Kiktik-27 is now a high-ranking commander on an apparently important mission (that triple-size division with 10 superheavies is no suicide force).


I guessed that someone upstairs must have a soft-spot for Kikitik (or he wouldn't have gotten all those superheavies), but it's good to know that the Umiak actively cultivate talent and encourage their commanders to think outside the box. I had initially assumed from their love of attrition tactics that they would be more dogmatic, so I'm pleased to be mistaken!

It's also quite amusing to note the similarities between Stillstorm and Kikitik: decorated veterans whose skills are acknowledged even by their enemies, have run into political problems but risen above them due to their abilities. Of course, I suspect Stillstorm would physically attack anyone who suggested she had anything in common with an Umiak. We'll have to see if Kikitik's prejudices run quite as deep.

Incidentally, have I mentioned how awesome it is that the Umiak AREN'T just generic bug monsters? If you overlook their xenophobia, aggression, and enslaving tendencies, the Bugs are actually kind of cuddly. What's not to like about rapping, OCD, transhuman (trans-Umiak?) perfectionists who use actual data stacks in their language and make suicide charges because they're just that enthusiastic?

...ahem.

On a less fan-gasmy note, I noticed a while back when I was reading through the old unfinished 2006 Outsider simulation rules that the Historians and their weapons aren't mentioned. Instead the PDF credits the advanced plasma weapons to a race called the "Eaters of Wisdom". Was this the original name for the Historians, and if so why did you decide to change it?

Jack wrote:
Where can I read the materials of the structure of the armed forces Umiak?


The official information on the structure of Umiak fleets may be found here, but for simplicity I'll just copy over the relevant paragraph for you:

Quote:
Internal Umiak fleet organization is not well understood, but it is believed by Loroi intelligence that most command and control is decentralized and region-specific. The Umiak maintain very large defensive fleets all along the borders of their territory, and also conduct regular offensive strikes across all theatres; it is theorized that the offensive and defensive operations are under separate commands, though forces are frequently transferred between commands. Organization at the tactical level is based on the 5-vessel quincunx squadron, usually consisting of a cruiser and four smaller escorts. A typical Umiak "assault division" consists of 15-20 such squadrons, with additional perimeter escorts and an undetermined number of towed light craft. The "bivouac divisions" that form the border defense fleets can be much larger, and sometimes include more expensive superheavy units.

Umiak do not have ship "classes" in the conventional sense, as nearly every Umiak vessel is unique in some way, and so warships are mainly classified by size. Regional shipyards produce vessels in local styles influenced by the needs and available resources of the moment, and individual ships are extensively customized over their operational lives by their crews. However, most ships fall into one of several established "types" based on size, armament and role.


PS: Since I know someone is going to ask, the rules were never finished because they have some fundamental flaws regarding the way damage is resolved and Arioch has enough on his plate already. As of 2012 only the movement rules should be considered accurate to how things really work in the Outsider universe.

Author:  joestej [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Jack wrote:
Absalom wrote:
The information available is in the forums, and the Insider (a part of the site).

I would be very grateful for the links.


Insider: http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/insider.html

The Umiak: http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/forum_umiak.html

Umiak Fleets and Ships: http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/fleet_umiak.html

Some background information that has already been sifted from the forums:
http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/fredgiblet_quotations.html
http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/fredgiblet_quotations_v2.html

Hope these are helpful for you.

Author:  Arioch [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Unfortunately, search functions don't work very well with a translator.

joestej wrote:
On a less fan-gasmy note, I noticed a while back when I was reading through the old unfinished 2006 Outsider simulation rules that the Historians and their weapons aren't mentioned. Instead the PDF credits the advanced plasma weapons to a race called the "Eaters of Wisdom". Was this the original name for the Historians, and if so why did you decide to change it?

They were called the Eaters of Wisdom for a while. The "Historians" was a name for a different race in a different story. I eventually decided that each name was more appropriate for the other race and so I switched them.

Author:  joestej [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Arioch wrote:
Unfortunately, search functions don't work very well with a translator.

joestej wrote:
On a less fan-gasmy note, I noticed a while back when I was reading through the old unfinished 2006 Outsider simulation rules that the Historians and their weapons aren't mentioned. Instead the PDF credits the advanced plasma weapons to a race called the "Eaters of Wisdom". Was this the original name for the Historians, and if so why did you decide to change it?

They were called the Eaters of Wisdom for a while. The "Historians" was a name for a different race in a different story. I eventually decided that each name was more appropriate for the other race and so I switched them.


Interesting! Did that other story ever get published anywhere?

Author:  Arioch [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

joestej wrote:
Arioch wrote:
They were called the Eaters of Wisdom for a while. The "Historians" was a name for a different race in a different story. I eventually decided that each name was more appropriate for the other race and so I switched them.

Interesting! Did that other story ever get published anywhere?

No, it's just one of many story ideas that I keep in my back pocket.

Absalom wrote:
Agreed. Also, has that book project gotten published yet?

Which book do you mean?

Author:  Absalom [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Arioch wrote:
Absalom wrote:
Agreed. Also, has that book project gotten published yet?

Which book do you mean?
The one you did art for, "Rise of the Titans" I think it was.

Author:  Arioch [ Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Absalom wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Absalom wrote:
Agreed. Also, has that book project gotten published yet?
Which book do you mean?
The one you did art for, "Rise of the Titans" I think it was.

Ah. It's been a while since I heard from him, but I don't think he actually started writing it.

Author:  Jack [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

joestej wrote:
Hope these are helpful for you.

Thank you very much!

Author:  Arioch [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

The discussion of decoys and jamming was getting a bit off-topic, so I moved it to its own thread here.

Author:  joestej [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Arioch wrote:
The discussion of decoys and jamming was getting a bit off-topic, so I moved it to its own thread here.


Oh thank god, that was driving me nuts.

Author:  Krulle [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Huh?, I also value Arioch very highly. But I do not consider him a god.

Author:  Mr Bojangles [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Arioch wrote:
The discussion of decoys and jamming was getting a bit off-topic, so I moved it to its own thread here.


Definitely for the best. Thanks for the sanity check!

Krulle wrote:
Huh?, I also value Arioch very highly. But I do not consider him a god.


:lol: Weeeeelllll... Maybe not a god. How about demiurge? :P

Author:  Krulle [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

He is a demiurge, yes.

i also forgot to write that I thank him too.... (for having moved the particular discussion elsewhere)

Author:  Absalom [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Arioch wrote:
Absalom wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Which book do you mean?
The one you did art for, "Rise of the Titans" I think it was.

Ah. It's been a while since I heard from him, but I don't think he actually started writing it.
Huh, I assumed he'd at least gotten a rough draft before he went looking for art. Well, thanks for the update!

Author:  Hālian [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Quote:
Archaic Umiak has abstracted tokens for larger values, and the symbols for these are sometimes used as shortcuts instead of the full binary representations.


What might these numerals look like? (And even though I'm guessing the answer is "no", I probably ought to ask if there are any letters that have been dropped from (1) Umiakese (2) Loroi Trade in years gone by?)

Author:  Arioch [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Image

If you leave the 2 (KT) off the beginning of the exponential notation it will be assumed, and you can chain exponents (KT ^ KTT ^ KK = KT ^ KKTT = 4096).

Carl Miller wrote:
(And even though I'm guessing the answer is "no", I probably ought to ask if there are any letters that have been dropped from (1) Umiakese (2) Loroi Trade in years gone by?)

Sure, there must have been many dialects and variants over the millennia. And no, I don't have any interest in mapping them out.

Author:  Hālian [ Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Is there any chance I could request a picture of an umiak riding an umiak? You know, for science. :D

Author:  Turrosh Mak [ Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Carl Miller wrote:
Is there any chance I could request a picture of an umiak riding an umiak? You know, for science. :D


Yo dawg, we heard you like umiaks. So we put some umiaks in an umiak so you could see them at sea!

Edit- I finally came up with a decent ending

Author:  Argron [ Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Carl Miller wrote:
Is there any chance I could request a picture of an umiak riding an umiak? You know, for science. :D
That would be...
( •_•)>⌐■-■ / (⌐■_■)
... Buggery.
YEEEAAAH

Author:  Tamri [ Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

What is the average height / weight Arekka? They Avian, or just something to ground with feathers / fur?

Nissek expanded towards the people and have been blocked Loroi / Barsam, or they are the wrong way initially not too eager?

What will take (hypothetically) Umiak, if they manage to drive a wedge into the Union to Mannadi-Arekka space (on the Loroi-Historian border like, well, except that it will effectively mean the defeat of the Union)? What will their actions in the Loroi occupied species?

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