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Post New Page 128
http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider128.html

First, thank you Arioch for the update.

Huh, they are actually moving supplies and cluster missiles between ships with shuttles/"worker bees" via the shuttle bay? That's... unexpected...


Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:29 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
entity2636 wrote:
http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider128.html

First, thank you Arioch for the update.

Huh, they are actually moving supplies and cluster missiles between ships with shuttles/"worker bees" via the shuttle bay? That's... unexpected...


Seems a bit ominous. Apparently, we have to say good bye to white haired girl. It really makes you wonder a little how many ships the Loroi have at their disposal. It seems they are basically fighting 1:1000.


Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:50 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
YAY!!! New Page!!

Now that is interesting to see, I almost missed the green shuttle next to the big red cargo box. I find it particularly interesting that they load the Tolot Blisters loose. I wonder if this means they have a specific launch method inside or they just kick them out the door ? Makes me imagine a missile boat with a giant cargo hold just piling a ton of missiles in a corner.

Moonglow or whatever her name is sure has an interesting attitude about black razor, guess that's some of that Loroi jadedness ?


Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:26 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
Yeah, the big missiles being loaded into the shuttle bay caught my eye as well. I hadn't realised they were that big, but since they are, I'd expect VLS cells or something.

Also, recycling spotted! :D

Image


Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:13 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
Username wrote:
Moonglow or whatever her name is sure has an interesting attitude about black razor, guess that's some of that Loroi jadedness ?


Yeah, looks like she doesn't like Ashrain much and it goes deeper than winning a wager, seeing how smug she looks saying pretty much "you had it coming, I'll be sure to light a candle on your grave" (Emphasis on ~when~ instead of ~if~ you don't come back) and Ashrain responding with the mental "f*ck you too*.


Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:07 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
entity2636 wrote:
Username wrote:
Moonglow or whatever her name is sure has an interesting attitude about black razor, guess that's some of that Loroi jadedness ?


Yeah, looks like she doesn't like Ashrain much and it goes deeper than winning a wager, seeing how smug she looks saying pretty much "you had it coming, I'll be sure to light a candle on your grave" (Emphasis on ~when~ instead of ~if~ you don't come back) and Ashrain responding with the mental "f*ck you too*.


She is saying "do not spend yourself too cheaply", which I understand as "do not throw your life away" or at least as "make them pay before you go down".


Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:06 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
Or it could be the Loroi equivalent of 'Break a leg'. I do think that there is some professional competition at play since Moonglow is of higher rank and has been out-shown by Ashrain but I don't think she really wants to see Black Razor destroyed.
After all, they are both under Stillstorm who thinks that 'Words are a tool of deception'. The Banter could be their way of coping and pissing each other off.

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Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:50 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
Arent wrote:
She is saying "do not spend yourself too cheaply", which I understand as "do not throw your life away" or at least as "make them pay before you go down".


Correct.

I was referring to "Luck is [indeed] with you - wager won, and suddenly you lead a fleet while we refuel [...] You will need it where you're going [..] I will light a lamp for you when (not if) you don't come back" and Ashrain responding with "look to your own life".

There is a good-luck wish and "don't throw your life away too easily" in there but lots of acid around it.


Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:51 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
Image

MFW Ashrain spends herself too cheaply.


Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:55 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
It may just be some friendly fatalism. This culture has been involved in a very lethal brutal war for decades, it may just be the expect practice to say goodbye to someone every time they run off to fight because the odds of sudden death are very real.

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Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:20 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
entity2636 wrote:
Arent wrote:
She is saying "do not spend yourself too cheaply", which I understand as "do not throw your life away" or at least as "make them pay before you go down".


Correct.

I was referring to "Luck is [indeed] with you - wager won, and suddenly you lead a fleet while we refuel [...] You will need it where you're going [..] I will light a lamp for you when (not if) you don't come back" and Ashrain responding with "look to your own life".

There is a good-luck wish and "don't throw your life away too easily" in there but lots of acid around it.


Thanks for confirming that. I'm not native english, so idioms like that are always a bit of guesswork on my side.


Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:27 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
hi hi

The way I see it, this is just another example of why the Loroi find spoken words to be deceptive and hostile. Maybe that sort of snark is standard operating procedure for speaking Loroi? If they were human, I would assume that their exchange involved some genuine respect for each other. I'm not sure what they're thinking privately, though.

I would like to think that the competition between the two is still a relatively friendly one. Moonglow doesn't look even a little bit cross with Ashrain, her expression to me reads like mild surprise and worry, what with the way her eyebrows turn up in the center. It might look a little bit condescending, except that she has no reason to feel superior.

Also, given how Loroi view luck, the exchange between the two is even more interesting. Moonglow is admitting that Ashrain is lucky. But Loroi traditionally think that luck is a zero sum game, that is, for the whole group, there is a set amount of luck to go around. By admitting that luck is with Ashrain, she is also admitting that luck is not on her side. And Ashrain denies it!

On the surface, this might seem to us humans like Moonglow is denying Ashrain's achievements, and Ashrain is boasting in return. And there probably is some of this going on. (Moonglow also seems to be more of a traditionalist, and Ashrain seems to more of a pragmatist, who isn't as interested in superstition.)

But under the surface, Moonglow may also be admitting that she is not feeling confident about her own situation, unlucky as she is. She may even be trying to assuage some of her own feelings of guilt about benefitting from Ashrain's upcoming death, because if Ashrain dies horribly, Moonglow's own luck goes up.

Ashrain, by boasting that it was her skill and not luck that caused her to win the wager, is in a way reassuring Moonglow that she is actually the lucky one.

(Edit: I suppose an alternate interpretation is that they're being totally dishonest, and Moonglow is basically saying, "looks like I'm the lucky one after all. But I don't really feel that's the case. Maybe if Moonglow had even a hint of a smile, but she doesn't seem to.)

---

Also, Arclight! You go right on being the most professional out of the bunch! :D

Eight divisions though? Wowzas! Still, if they're sending a division to suppress each jump point, they're not going to be able to keep that up in every system they pass, else there won't be an invasion fleet left.

---

Also, also, I dig the cargo pods! I'm not sure if it is a generic cargo crate or a dedicated supply pod. If it is the former, I'm guessing that it opens from the sides, as opposed to terran crates with open at the ends. If it is the latter, I'm guessing that may hook up to an internal nozzle along the blue lights?

And if I'm not mistaken, that looks like a standard, mundane, ordinary "Nistil" utility shuttle, up alongside the cargo pod.


Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:58 pm
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Post Re: New Page 128
Quote:
What Icekatze said


Indeed, the relationship between Moonglow and Ashrain is an interesting one to look at from the sidelines, them being, what's the English term, frenemies? It also allows some insight into their characters, what kind of people they are.

Back on Pages 082 and 083 Moonglow found an opportunity to complain, even whine a little about Ashrain still having cluster missiles left and thus was "cheating". Not sure of the English term of if or if it applies, but in Russian I'd call her "цаца" - a queen, bighead. There she certainly is acting upset more than being genuinely upset, while Ashrain's response is self confident and matter of fact, "yes, I'm just that good, deal with it".

Here and recently we see Ashrain again being too eager to be the first, and as a result getting sent to intercept a whole division of Umiaks, and Moonglow being all "see, this is what trouble it gets you in".

You think maybe Moonglow envies Ashrain or is jealous, while Ashrain is burning to prove to everyone that she's Just. That. Good. because she IS and not because she's distantly related to the Empress?

By the way, what do you think the three captains' (Ashrain, Moonglow and Archlight) prior service branches were before they became Torrai? I'd say Ashrain - Teidar (kind of head through the wall approach, always first, plus the psi amp), Moonglow - Mizol (talks a lot, apparently likes to tease her rival who doesn't seem to get it), Archlight - Tenoin (keeps head cool during battles, situational awareness, comms strictly for tactical info, no BS)


Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:30 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
entity2636 wrote:
There she certainly is acting upset more than being genuinely upset...

I was thinking in this page that Moonglow has a melodramatic expression that's a bit of a put on, that she's really so, so concerned. And again, to me it seems like Ashrain is just damn annoyed.

CJSF


Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:55 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
hi hi

Moonglow may well be a bit of a ham, but I think it is unlikely that she would actually be happy if Ashrain died. Note she doesn't even address Ashrain directly, she says "Luck is with you Black Razor," addressing the ship as a whole, perhaps meaning the entire crew as well.

If Moonglow hadn't mentioned luck, I might be more inclined to think that she was just being catty and there was nothing else to it.

I doubt Moonglow would have survived on the frontlines in an interdiction strike group without having at least some competence, I mean, I doubt she's as incompetent as the non-hero admirals in Legend of Galactic Heroes, even if she doesn't qualify as a hero herself. At worst, I would think that she is merely an above average commander that looks bad in the presence of great commanders. (Could be wrong about that, though.)

I suspect that both of them would need to realize that, while Ashrain is charging into danger first, the entirety of Strike Group 51 is in big trouble, not to mention everyone else in the system who might not be able to escape, like the supply groups. (Which also makes me wonder if the 51st will be taking on even more passengers from the otherwise doomed populace.)

If they can't defeat the division coming at them, not just hurt them or slow them down, but outright defeat; then they are going to be in a dangerous position. With enemy ships at the jump points, they will have to expose themselves to enemy fire in order to flee, or else they are stuck in the system and there the Umiak's more efficient but slower engines give them a huge advantage, they can just run the strike group out of fuel. And even if they cripple the approaching division enough to escape back the way they came, there is a massive battle happening in that system too, and no real exit.

Given the insane odds they are facing, I imagine the exchange is at least partially a way for Moonglow present a facade of normalcy.

----
Edit: Also, perhaps the reason why the resupply torpedoes are handled individually, is that they don't have generic launcher devices between different ships? I mean, the supply convoy doesn't know who is going to need supplies, or what supplies they're going to need. I suppose when a fleet just shows up unannounced and says, "Hay, I need supplies plz, kthxbai." the convoy has to give them whatever they need, if they have it on hand.


Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:49 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
Interest and slightly relevant: In English we say "break a leg" as a way of wishing someone good luck in their performance at the theatre. That's fairly odd way to tell someone you hope they are successful, and not easy to translate. The phrase comes from the theatrical term "leg", which is a lever used to

In French, to wish an actor good luck one would say, "merde à toi", which literally translates as "shit on you". It's also used by ballet dancers as well; often simply "merde".

Try translating that into Trade..!

L.


Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:30 pm
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Post Re: New Page 128
hi hi

The more I think about it, the less confident I am about Loroi relationships. I mean, it is totally normal where I'm from for friends to give each other a hard time, but not really being serious as a trust thing. But Beryl doesn't even seem to notice Alex's expression when he said it's "Wonderful..." that Fireblade and company were going along. So is irony and sarcasm a thing that Loroi don't really do, or is Beryl just unusually dense? One might assume that all of the captains in the strike group have met each other in person at least once, so it'd make sense that they know how each other feel via sanzai and not really be able to cover that up later.


Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:04 pm
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Post Re: New Page 128
Username wrote:
YAY!!! New Page!!
Makes me imagine a missile boat with a giant cargo hold just piling a ton of missiles in a corner.


Where else would you store missiles? Secured in racks? Psssh. :P

icekatze wrote:
hi hi

The more I think about it, the less confident I am about Loroi relationships. I mean, it is totally normal where I'm from for friends to give each other a hard time, but not really being serious as a trust thing. But Beryl doesn't even seem to notice Alex's expression when he said it's "Wonderful..." that Fireblade and company were going along. So is irony and sarcasm a thing that Loroi don't really do, or is Beryl just unusually dense? One might assume that all of the captains in the strike group have met each other in person at least once, so it'd make sense that they know how each other feel via sanzai and not really be able to cover that up later.


First - YES, new page! :D

To your point, icekatze, I attributed that to Beryl's naivete and/or literal nature. Seeing Moonglow and Ashrain snark and snipe at each other, I think they tend more towards the sardonic versus sarcastic. The Loroi are just blunt like that. On the other hand, beyond their appearance, this makes them more relatable: "Hey, they crack wise in the face of death, too!"


Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:18 pm
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Post Re: New Page 128
Whale wrote:
Yeah, the big missiles being loaded into the shuttle bay caught my eye as well. I hadn't realised they were that big, but since they are, I'd expect VLS cells or something.

Also, recycling spotted! :D

Image


If it means we get pages out faster, I'm fine with it. Super-professional Arclight is just so consistent, she even looks at the viewscreen in exactly the same manner every time she broadcasts.


Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:30 pm
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Post Re: New Page 128
hi hi

Arclight doesn't want the other captains to know she's kicking back in a recliner, so she loops the video. :P

(seriously though, Arclight rules!)


Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:35 pm
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Post Re: New Page 128
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

The more I think about it, the less confident I am about Loroi relationships. I mean, it is totally normal where I'm from for friends to give each other a hard time, but not really being serious as a trust thing. But Beryl doesn't even seem to notice Alex's expression when he said it's "Wonderful..." that Fireblade and company were going along. So is irony and sarcasm a thing that Loroi don't really do, or is Beryl just unusually dense? One might assume that all of the captains in the strike group have met each other in person at least once, so it'd make sense that they know how each other feel via sanzai and not really be able to cover that up later.


I assume that Alex is a complete mystery to the Loroi. I mean, usually they know what others are thinking - even other species. And now they suddenly have to rely on what Alex is saying, his gestures etc. It's like they are suddenly blind or deaf & have to rely on their other senses. If you are untrained in that, because you never needed it, that might result in quite a bit confusion.


Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:55 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
Arent wrote:
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

The more I think about it, the less confident I am about Loroi relationships. I mean, it is totally normal where I'm from for friends to give each other a hard time, but not really being serious as a trust thing. But Beryl doesn't even seem to notice Alex's expression when he said it's "Wonderful..." that Fireblade and company were going along. So is irony and sarcasm a thing that Loroi don't really do, or is Beryl just unusually dense? One might assume that all of the captains in the strike group have met each other in person at least once, so it'd make sense that they know how each other feel via sanzai and not really be able to cover that up later.


I assume that Alex is a complete mystery to the Loroi. I mean, usually they know what others are thinking - even other species. And now they suddenly have to rely on what Alex is saying, his gestures etc. It's like they are suddenly blind or deaf & have to rely on their other senses. If you are untrained in that, because you never needed it, that might result in quite a bit confusion.


I suppose so, but they seem to emote pretty well, regardless. Given Alex's remark about Beryl's laugh, I wonder what he made of Stillstorm's maniacal outburst upon trashing Bellarmine, and man, she looked pissed after that.

I expect the human reliance on words as trust will become a contested point again and I am looking forward to Alex and some of the other "team" members figuring that part out. It's asking a LOT of a Loroi to trust Alex (or any human), and the fact that some of them at least are willing to try, is interesting to me.

CJSF


Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:38 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
Well, the last page update made the loroi wagers a lot less sexy than my fevered imagination led me to fantasise.


Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:22 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
orion1836 wrote:
If it means we get pages out faster, I'm fine with it. Super-professional Arclight is just so consistent, she even looks at the viewscreen in exactly the same manner every time she broadcasts.


She found showing up on monitors inefficient, when she could be reporting intruder numbers and doing inventory spreadsheets and calisthenics simultaneously, so that's just a carton cutout she left at her workstation.


Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:27 am
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Post Re: New Page 128
boldilocks wrote:
orion1836 wrote:
If it means we get pages out faster, I'm fine with it. Super-professional Arclight is just so consistent, she even looks at the viewscreen in exactly the same manner every time she broadcasts.


She found showing up on monitors inefficient, when she could be reporting intruder numbers and doing inventory spreadsheets and calisthenics simultaneously, so that's just a carton cutout she left at her workstation.

:D


Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:50 am
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