Alien races in outsider!

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Jericho
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Alien races in outsider!

Post by Jericho »

I don't know how many of you are interested in the aliens of outsider (except for the umiak and the loroi) but my interest have peeked anyway so here goes.

Arioch!

What was the conflict between the Delrias and the loroi about? Were there a specifik issue they contested about or was it simply the Delrias who saw someone they thought was easy prey and decided to go for it.

What more specific data do you have on the other races besides combatants and Humans (culture, society, biology, economics and history).

The historian didn't offer much military support in the war. Is this because they are bad at it or because they have an interest besides helping the Loroi?

The Nissek and Loroi have a hard time with each other regarding trust. Is it because they are both expanding powers and are considering the possibility of future war or historical grudge?
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Arioch »

Jericho wrote:What was the conflict between the Delrias and the loroi about? Were there a specifik issue they contested about or was it simply the Delrias who saw someone they thought was easy prey and decided to go for it.
The Delrias were (and still are) a martial culture to an even greater degree than the Loroi are; they're physically formidable, exclusively carnivorous, and their own internal hierarchy is determined to a certain degree through physical intimidation. Like the Loroi, the Delrias civilization grew up surrounded by the ruins of the empire of their ancestors (although the Delrias had mistakenly thought the Soia ruins were just part of the earlier Fenrias empire), and were determined to reestablish the dominance over the Local Bubble which they believed was their birthright. The Delrias returned to starflight earlier than the Loroi, had already established a network of colonies, had already bullied the Pipolsid into becoming a client state, and were leaning heavily on the Loroi, Neridi and Mannadi to submit to Delrias domination. As you can probably expect, the Loroi were not having any of it, and were not very diplomatic in their rebuffs. The Loroi at that point were still mostly isolationist and had little interest in an alien empire, so the Delrias figured that if they could destroy the small Loroi fleet of cruiser-carriers with their own larger fleet of blaster-armed battleships, the Loroi would capitulate and accept subordinate status. However, the Loroi quickly destroyed the Delrias fleet, and suddenly it was the Delrias who found themselves on the receiving end of an invasion. And suddenly the Loroi went from an isolationist federation of three splinter colonies to the leader of a sizable interstellar empire.
Jericho wrote:What more specific data do you have on the other races besides combatants and Humans (culture, society, biology, economics and history).
I should probably update the races page with more information, time permitting, as it's pretty sparse at the moment. The only races that will be explored in significant detail in the comic are the main combatants: Loroi, Umiak, Historians, Barsam, Morat/Delrias, and to a lesser extent the Neridi (who we will see crewing Barsam ships and Loroi space stations). Most of the other races basically just wave hello in council chambers and the like, and so haven't been fleshed out in any great detail. If you have specific questions, however, I can probably come up with answers.

The Morat are closely related to the Delrias, having descended from the same Fenrias ancestors. They are not quite as large, are omnivorous, and have a more egalitarian society than the Delrias, and are not quite as belligerent.
Jericho wrote:The historian didn't offer much military support in the war. Is this because they are bad at it or because they have an interest besides helping the Loroi?
It wouldn't be appropriate for me to talk much about the Historians' true motives at this point.
Jericho wrote:The Nissek and Loroi have a hard time with each other regarding trust. Is it because they are both expanding powers and are considering the possibility of future war or historical grudge?
There's no grudge, but the Nissek have their own ambitions of empire, and so the two nations are naturally wary of one another, even though they are currently allies.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Jericho »

Allright so here's a list of things worthy of knowing of the lesser races.

The Mannadi

They look reptillian or amphibian is this true?

They were known as explorers back in the days, was their culture like? Similar to ours?

They wanted to be a bigger power in the galaxy and so became aggressive towards their neighbours. Ok but what i don't get is what logic promted them to a military conflict. They knew what the loroi where capable of (they defeated the delrias earlier) and they were outnumbered by the loroi allies. They also had the main contact route to the historians and if you think about the fact that the umiak went trough there to attack throught historian space to reach the loroi it seems that there were plenty of room for expansion and growth elsewhere. It seems to me that they could have expanded away from loroi influence and created a formidable empire in the other direction from the other races.

The pipolsid

Why exactly did the delrias occupy them (or in other means subjugate them)? For principle? Because they don't strike me as the race that would be interesting to the delrias except for the fact that they were gifted scientists. This makes me wonder just how gifted were they and how do the rest of the galaxy know that. If the delrias occupied them it seems unlikely that they would have any significant technology or they would have been able to put on a fight.

The Golim

How is their relationship embarrasing for the loroi? Other than that they may send creepy love letters and hump their legs.

The niberen

How similar to the barsam are they? Or what differences are there?
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by discord »

jericho: not found the insider have you?
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/union_races.html

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Arioch
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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Arioch »

Jericho wrote:The Mannadi They look reptillian or amphibian is this true?
The Mannadi have mammal-like skin and quill-like hair. I wouldn't describe them as having particularly reptilian or amphibian traits. Except perhaps for being ugly.

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Jericho wrote:They were known as explorers back in the days, was their culture like? Similar to ours?
Similar, yes. Not unlike the European colonial empires in the Age of Sail. Adventurous, ambitious, nationalistic, mercantile, exploitative, aggressive. The Mannadi had several competing nation-states, and so there was some variety in their sub-cultures, and they weren't always on the same page when it came to foreign affairs.
Jericho wrote:They wanted to be a bigger power in the galaxy and so became aggressive towards their neighbours. Ok but what i don't get is what logic promted them to a military conflict. They knew what the loroi where capable of (they defeated the delrias earlier) and they were outnumbered by the loroi allies. They also had the main contact route to the historians and if you think about the fact that the umiak went trough there to attack throught historian space to reach the loroi it seems that there were plenty of room for expansion and growth elsewhere. It seems to me that they could have expanded away from loroi influence and created a formidable empire in the other direction from the other races.
The Mannadi did control most of the territory between Historian space and the Steppes, and they were primarily expanding away from Loroi territory. The friction was initially between the Mannadi and Neridi over new settlements in what's now the Seren and Tinza sectors, and then a dispute between the Mannadi and Pipolsid over the Maia system. The Loroi began to rub the Mannadi the wrong way when they sent Loroi warships to help patrol the Neridi colonies, and when the Loroi "solved" the Maia dispute by claiming it for themselves, the Mannadi had had enough. On paper, the sides were pretty even... the Pipolsid and Neridi militaries hadn't been able to do much to deter the Mannadi before, so it was mostly the Loroi fleet vs. the Mannadi fleet, which was of a similar size. The disputed area was close to Mannadi territory and far from the Loroi sister worlds. The Mannadi were aware that the Loroi had roughed up the Delrias pretty good, but it's not hard for the ambitious to convince themselves that they're better than the other guy.
Jericho wrote:The pipolsid Why exactly did the delrias occupy them (or in other means subjugate them)? For principle? Because they don't strike me as the race that would be interesting to the delrias except for the fact that they were gifted scientists. This makes me wonder just how gifted were they and how do the rest of the galaxy know that. If the delrias occupied them it seems unlikely that they would have any significant technology or they would have been able to put on a fight.
The Delrias strong-armed the Pipolsid because a) they were there, and b) they could. The Pipolsid didn't have much in the way of military force. The Delrias extorted tribute from the Pipolsid, and stole their drive technology, which was very good. The Pipolsid are an ideal client race for terrestrial organisms, because they live in the water and so don't compete directly for land.
Jericho wrote:The Golim How is their relationship embarrasing for the loroi? Other than that they may send creepy love letters and hump their legs.
The Loroi in general aren't comfortable around aliens, so it's extra creepy for them when they receive love letters or find someone humping their legs.
Jericho wrote:The niberen How similar to the barsam are they? Or what differences are there?
Aside from coloration, the Nibiren and Barsam are very similar. The Nibiren have more "primitive" features, and greater variation in size, stature and horn-patterns. The Barsam mature more rapidly, live longer, heal quicker, and have other Soia-Liron advantages.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by GeoModder »

Arioch, looking at the "Local Bubble" picture you once posted, I noticed there's a bright pink-colored territory between Loroi -and Historian space. Is that the remaining "independent" part of Arekka space?
If the Mannadi were so into bullying the races around them, I wonder how the Arekka wound up allied with them in the third Loroi-Mannadi war.
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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Arioch »

GeoModder wrote:Arioch, looking at the "Local Bubble" picture you once posted, I noticed there's a bright pink-colored territory between Loroi -and Historian space. Is that the remaining "independent" part of Arekka space?
That's the Pol Protectorate, which is part of Historian territory.
GeoModder wrote:If the Mannadi were so into bullying the races around them, I wonder how the Arekka wound up allied with them in the third Loroi-Mannadi war.
Even bullies have friends. The Mannadi and Arekka had previously fought a common enemy (the Nissek).

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by manticore7 »

I see that both sides are multi-species polities, I find this a lot more interesting than the the single species empires of say the star trek series. is it unique to the Umiak and Loroi or would you guess that this sort of arrangement is normal in the galaxy?
"Worlds governed by artificial intelligence often learned a hard lesson, Logic doesn't care"
Andromeda season 2 episode 6 All too Human

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Arioch »

Well, even Star Trek, with its one-city alien cultures in which everyone wears the same hats, had a certain amount of complexity in the large-scale empires... you had the cosmopolitan Federation, the ancient connection between Vulcans and Romulans, and shifting alliances between powers.

Any growing empire (unless it is inherently genocidal) is going to collect client races. In interstellar empires in which these races are alien, they can't be fully absorbed into the "majority" the way Human cultures can... they're going remain distinct. I think the lack of diversity in Star War's Empire and in the Klingon and Romulan empires is meant to be an demonstration that these entities are inherently evil.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by CptWinters »

Arioch wrote:I think the lack of diversity in Star War's Empire and in the Klingon and Romulan empires is meant to be an demonstration that these entities are inherently evil.
Or at least inflexible and stagnant. Especially in the case of Star Trek, I don't think that either the Klingons or Romulans were protrayed as generally "evil" (at least not in the Original Series -- I can't speak for the others).

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Jericho »

discord wrote:jericho: not found the insider have you?
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/union_races.html
Bah ha ha ha... Discord please read the page and show how the information that i requested is located in that page. That page only superficially touches on the subjects i'm interested in so i expand my knowledge by asking questions of interest that are not answered in that page.
If you would have read that page you would have seen that.
The Mannadi have mammal-like skin and quill-like hair. I wouldn't describe them as having particularly reptilian or amphibian traits. Except perhaps for being ugly.
They kinda look like teethed frogs if you ask me.

About telepathic resistance. Just how much are we talking about? Were they immune to the farseers of the loroi or could they activily resist telepathic interrogation?
The Mannadi did control most of the territory between Historian space and the Steppes, and they were primarily expanding away from Loroi territory. The friction was initially between the Mannadi and Neridi over new settlements in what's now the Seren and Tinza sectors, and then a dispute between the Mannadi and Pipolsid over the Maia system. The Loroi began to rub the Mannadi the wrong way when they sent Loroi warships to help patrol the Neridi colonies, and when the Loroi "solved" the Maia dispute by claiming it for themselves, the Mannadi had had enough. On paper, the sides were pretty even... the Pipolsid and Neridi militaries hadn't been able to do much to deter the Mannadi before, so it was mostly the Loroi fleet vs. the Mannadi fleet, which was of a similar size. The disputed area was close to Mannadi territory and far from the Loroi sister worlds. The Mannadi were aware that the Loroi had roughed up the Delrias pretty good, but it's not hard for the ambitious to convince themselves that they're better than the other guy.
Was diplomacy ever attempted on either part prior to conflict? Because the way it looks now it seems the loroi used a little to extreme solution to a problem they seemed to have created in the first place.

Did the loroi make claims to maia before the dispute?

But the insider also say that they were never a match for the loroi? How does that work if the sides were even on paper?
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Arioch »

Jericho wrote: About telepathic resistance. Just how much are we talking about? Were they immune to the farseers of the loroi or could they activily resist telepathic interrogation?
Mannadi are not immune to telepathy, but they have greater resistance than most races. Harder to detect, harder to read.
Jericho wrote:Was diplomacy ever attempted on either part prior to conflict? Because the way it looks now it seems the loroi used a little to extreme solution to a problem they seemed to have created in the first place.
Sure, all three races were nominally allies at the time (as were the US and Russia at the end of WWII), so they were constantly talking. But the talks were not substantive; the Mannadi had official excuses for the violence against the Neridi and Pipolsid ("those raids were by settlers acting independently; the Mannadi government had nothing to with it"), and they bristled at attempts by the Loroi to interfere in what they considered private disputes.
Jericho wrote:Did the loroi make claims to maia before the dispute?
Not really, but Maia is a peach, and everyone wanted it. The Mannadi claimed it, but Pipolsid tried to colonize it anyway, arguing that their underwater colonies wouldn't interfere with Mannadi sovereignty over the system, but in a repeat of the Neridi situation, "independent" Mannadi raiders began attacking the Pipolsid settlement, and again the Loroi sent in warships to stabilize the situation. This time the Mannadi demanded that the Loroi leave "or else", claiming that this was a Loroi incursion into sovereign Mannadi territory. Emperor Loremark's response to the ultimatum was to claim the system for the Loroi, but invited both the Pipolsid and Mannadi settlers to stay. This was a deliberate provocation by Loremark; cold war is not the Loroi strong suit.
Jericho wrote:But the insider also say that they were never a match for the loroi? How does that work if the sides were even on paper?
The Mannadi were outnumbered, but their ships appeared comparable to those of the Loroi, and the advantages of range and supply seemed to be with the Mannadi. Loroi Farseers would also be reduced in effectiveness, trying to find harder-to-see Mannadi ships moving mostly in Mannadi territory. In actual combat, the Mannadi were no match for the Loroi, and the Loroi won every significant battle. Still, though the Mannadi failed to capture Maia, the first war was a stalemate, and the Mannadi viewed it as a moral victory; they had stood up against the vaunted Loroi and were still in control of their own territory. And so they were not deterred from their belligerent attitude, which inevitably led to a second war.

edit: Having reviewed my notes, it seems that the Mannadi were in open war against the Pipolsid and Neridi, and so it was technically the Loroi who declared war against the Mannadi (after the Neridi demanded that the Loroi honor their treaty of alliance), rather than the other way around. So, technically the Loroi did start all three of the conflicts with the Mannadi.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by GeoModder »

So, the Maia system lays somewhere to the "south" of the theater map you once posted? More or less wedged between former Mannadi space and the Tinza sector? And is former Mannadi space part of the current (Loroi) Maia sector?
Also, the same map shows a different color around a handful star systems with Golim-chei included, but I always thought the Golim as non-starfaring since they're described as technologically backward. Did they established a few interstellar colonies before becoming part of the Loroi Alliance?
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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by projekcja »

The Soia-Liron Barsam have a natural version - the Nibiren.
The Soia-Liron Loroi have a natural version - Humans.
Do the Neridi have a natural version?
How about the Pol?

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Arioch »

GeoModder wrote:So, the Maia system lays somewhere to the "south" of the theater map you once posted? More or less wedged between former Mannadi space and the Tinza sector? And is former Mannadi space part of the current (Loroi) Maia sector?
Yes, Maia is on the edge of former Mannadi territory, coreward and antispinward. The Maia sector is to the galactic south, "below" the map in the Z-direction.
GeoModder wrote:Also, the same map shows a different color around a handful star systems with Golim-chei included, but I always thought the Golim as non-starfaring since they're described as technologically backward. Did they established a few interstellar colonies before becoming part of the Loroi Alliance?
The Golim didn't establish any extrasolar colonies of their own, but they were spread around the region by the Mannadi and later the Loroi. The area is referred to as Golim space, even though the Golim are not in charge of it.
projekcja wrote:The Soia-Liron Barsam have a natural version - the Nibiren. The Soia-Liron Loroi have a natural version - Humans. Do the Neridi have a natural version? How about the Pol?
Not that anyone knows about.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by GeoModder »

Thanks. :)
That's already 3 sectors in that corner of the Loroi Empire. Must be over a dozen sectors overall.
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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Jericho »

I've been analysing the maps presented in the insider and i wonder.


Did humanity pass through tithric space to reach naam? if they did would they have detected the remains of their civilization?


Perhaps even marked a few worlds for salvage? If the tithric had any technology worth salvaging.


And if you look at the second map of the sector i see no clear jump point to naam so the human vessel must have atleast passed through one of the main combatants territory before reaching naam.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by GeoModder »

IIRC, Arioch said the Bellarmine jumped in from "above" the Naam system, so didn't pass through the Steppes or another race's territory.
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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Jericho »

Quick question!

I thought it was pretty funny how you say in the insider that the delrias relying "on their strong martial traditions and physical prowess to be able to repel Loroi planetary invasions" didn't they get the memo that ultimately in outsider the loroi doesn't even care if your big on the ground cause from space your just another target?

Also where does these russians on the forum come from? I've lost count how many threads they made before being removed. Is this normal?
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Alien races in outsider!

Post by Arioch »

Jericho wrote:I thought it was pretty funny how you say in the insider that the delrias relying "on their strong martial traditions and physical prowess to be able to repel Loroi planetary invasions" didn't they get the memo that ultimately in outsider the loroi doesn't even care if your big on the ground cause from space your just another target?
That could probably be better worded. Once the space war was lost, the Delrias didn't expect to win any large-scale battles, but they considered themselves to be unconquerable; because they are so large and physically dangerous, and of a culture in which nearly every fit adult has fighting skills, they expected to be able to make occupation so costly that the Loroi would give up the attempt and agree to a peace treaty. They were making plans for perpetual to-the-last-man resistance similar in some ways to what the Japanese were planning at the very end of WWII. However, the Loroi special forces were able to effectively decapitate the Delrias command structure and control some key replacements, and so each of the Delrias worlds surrendered promptly after limited fighting. This unexpected reversal (confounding the expectations of the Delrias populace) led to the collapse of the society and a bloody civil war.
Jericho wrote:Also where does these russians on the forum come from? I've lost count how many threads they made before being removed. Is this normal?
For some reason, recently the spambots have figured out how to get past the signup countermeasures. I'm not sure what has changed, but I'm trying a few different things to block them.

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