Farsense and Sensibility.

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sleepdeprived
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by sleepdeprived »

Well, seeing that

loroi have a warrior culture, which would make public displays of weakness (like being in pain for example) somewhat shameful
survival training (such as one every loroi gets as a child) tends to toughen participants up
Beryl's laughing out loud suggests that loroi are perfectly capable of displaying emotions verbally
sanzai has quite a range and (i am led to believe) would have a pain element in the message

i believe a loroi stubbing her toe wouln't do anything if she could help it. A sharp breath at most.

Better question would be one about childbirth i think.

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Karst45 »

discord wrote:ktrain: kill, which just happens to be the default reaction to ANYTHING unexpected, probably the main reasons there are so few of them around.
seem like the loroi have 2 setting, Grumpy or Killing. They sure sound like party animal!
sleepdeprived wrote:Better question would be one about childbirth i think.
Well considering the rest of the gestation is conducted in "artificial womb" i suppose they dont fell the pain of giving birth as they go under the knife and must/should be sedated the same way as any operation require.

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Voitan »

sleepdeprived wrote:sanzai has quite a range and (i am led to believe) would have a pain element in the message

i believe a loroi stubbing her toe wouln't do anything if she could help it. A sharp breath at most.
Can Sanzai transmit sensory input from one Loroi to another?

Can one in intense pain, inadvertantly transmit their pain to others?

If Jardin begins reciting an ear worm song, will it count as torture to the Loroi as the song that never ends begins to ring loudly on every Loroi world?

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Tash »

Voitan wrote: If Jardin begins reciting an ear worm song, will it count as torture to the Loroi as the song that never ends begins to ring loudly on every Loroi world?
Make it stop, this tune is annoying, I've gotta shoot Umiak in the morning! :D

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by NOMAD »

Tash wrote:
Voitan wrote: If Jardin begins reciting an ear worm song, will it count as torture to the Loroi as the song that never ends begins to ring loudly on every Loroi world?
Make it stop, this tune is annoying, I've gotta shoot Umiak in the morning! :D
Then the loroi shall truly have lost the war. But getting back to the discussion at hand ( or trying to). Voitan does have a point,
Voitan wrote: Can Sanzai transmit sensory input from one Loroi to another?

Can one in intense pain, inadvertantly transmit their pain to others?
From the insider guide, Loroi do have a mental shield ( IE blocking ) ability, but for something unexpected ( like a sudden burst of pain) might get through. However it would depend on A) the strength ( and pain) of the sender B) the attention/concentration of the receiver ( if your distracted by the annoying blinking light of incoming Umiak gunboats as an example) and the C) the abilities of the receiver(s) mental blocking.

I could see Fireblade, stabbing her toe ( quiet painfully) and everyone within ship getting at least some feeling of pain as well. ( but I would assume loroi foot ware is stub proof to a fault)
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Voitan
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Voitan »

Tash wrote:
Voitan wrote: If Jardin begins reciting an ear worm song, will it count as torture to the Loroi as the song that never ends begins to ring loudly on every Loroi world?
Make it stop, this tune is annoying, I've gotta shoot Umiak in the morning! :D
Memetic viral bombs, perhaps the largest reason for why the Loroi's culture is not a free information culture.

ADD:

Thinking on it, Loroi culture may have people keep their proverbial mental mouthpeice shut in places that need a clear "air" space to conduct things properly.

Thus the problem of, how can your people think and at the same time provide a clear enviroment for communication if the culture frowns on it?

Then I guess the alternate prediction on Loroi culture is that they simply must not mind the constant background chatter.

Hmmm... I don't think these are good enough explanations.

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Arioch
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Arioch »

Loroi telepathy is not normally the sharing of literal "thoughts" or "emotions"; telepathic messages are similar to a spoken message, but there is a lot of extra bandwidth (which varies with the quality of the connection) that can contain subtext information, including emotional or sensory information. If there is enough telepathic bandwidth (especially if the two conversants are touching), then there may be so much information in the message that it almost seems like sharing thoughts or emotions or viewing through someone else's senses, but that's not the "normal" mode of operation for telepathy.

A Loroi who stubs her toe might "cry out" telepathically, and the subtext of this telepathic message would probably contain information that the crier was in pain, but this would not be literally be a transmission of pain.

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by manticore7 »

Arioch wrote:Loroi telepathy is not normally the sharing of literal "thoughts" or "emotions"; telepathic messages are similar to a spoken message, but there is a lot of extra bandwidth (which varies with the quality of the connection) that can contain subtext information, including emotional or sensory information. If there is enough telepathic bandwidth (especially if the two conversants are touching), then there may be so much information in the message that it almost seems like sharing thoughts or emotions or viewing through someone else's senses, but that's not the "normal" mode of operation for telepathy.

A Loroi who stubs her toe might "cry out" telepathically, and the subtext of this telepathic message would probably contain information that the crier was in pain, but this would not be literally be a transmission of pain.
I think that some what answerss a question I was about to ask, but I was wondering. If an Loroi telesends an account of an event say a battle will it be as she experienced it or will there be a tinge of bias and her interpritation of the battle. would it be accurate to say that the Loroi don't lie but they do editorialize?
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by fredgiblet »

A question that's been floating in my head for a while while we're on the subject. Does touching cause a hive-mind type effect? To be more specific, if Tempo is holding Beryl's hand in her left hand and Fireblade's hand in her right, does Beryl have a connection to Fireblade, or do both of their connections stop at Tempo? Would a mosh pit of Loroi all be connected?

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by TrashMan »

fredgiblet wrote:A question that's been floating in my head for a while while we're on the subject. Does touching cause a hive-mind type effect? To be more specific, if Tempo is holding Beryl's hand in her left hand and Fireblade's hand in her right, does Beryl have a connection to Fireblade, or do both of their connections stop at Tempo? Would a mosh pit of Loroi all be connected?

Interesting question.
Also has interesting alpication in an orgy. What, Loroi don't have those? Alex drear boy - teach them!

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Aygar »

manticore7 wrote:I think that some what answerss a question I was about to ask, but I was wondering. If an Loroi telesends an account of an event say a battle will it be as she experienced it or will there be a tinge of bias and her interpritation of the battle. would it be accurate to say that the Loroi don't lie but they do editorialize?
IIRC it has been stated that Loroi can lie through Sanzai, but for the vast majority of Loroi can't keep the equivalent of a strait face when doing so. I would expect that editorializing would be out as well because the intent to deceive would leak into the side band.

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osmium
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by osmium »

I think there could be editorializing. Otherwise nothing could ever be secret. There is a lot of knowledge that people have and while it is true that Loroi speak their mind, in no small part due to sanzai, I don't think leaving things out is out of the question. You'll always not be telling the other person everything you know and so long as you (as Loroi) emotionally steel yourself beforehand or have prepared for such a question, saying something like "that's above your paygrade", or "need to know" or "I'm not telling you that" won't really reveal much... Certainly not much more than facial expressions on a human saying the exact same thing would give away to us. Now saying something about a topic and leaving things out might be hard, but completely table-ing a topic I would think is possible.

Pass through connections with multiple Loroi while interesting could get cacophonous quickly, I would expect it to be difficult to distinguish from whom various emotions were coming from.

-O

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Arioch
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Arioch »

It's difficult to knowingly transmit false information via an ordinary telepathic connection, because much of the "subtext" information is semi-conscious or unconscious. The higher the bandwidth, the greater the detail and depth of the subtext, and the harder it is to consciously control. It's possible to intentionally omit this subtext, but then the receiver definitely knows something's up; it's a bit like when someone refuses to look you in the eye when talking to you.

However, just because it's difficult to knowingly lie doesn't mean that the message must be impartial or strictly factual; it can contain opinion or judgment. Every Loroi has her own point of view, so information that she believes to be true is always colored to some extent by personal biases. Two people can watch the same event and form different interpretations of it.
fredgiblet wrote:if Tempo is holding Beryl's hand in her left hand and Fireblade's hand in her right, does Beryl have a connection to Fireblade, or do both of their connections stop at Tempo? Would a mosh pit of Loroi all be connected?
Touch contact is peer-to-peer; Fireblade touching Tempo doesn't give her direct access to Beryl. However, Tempo could choose to act as a telepathic relay, giving Fireblade and Beryl access to each other (that's not quite as high-bandwidth as direct touch, but close). This is of limited use, since if she's close enough to touch Tempo, Fireblade is probably close enough to lean over and touch Beryl herself. As osmium suggests, there are practical limits on how many people can be linked in this manner, as the amount of information being passed back and forth quickly becomes unmanageable.

The only practical use I can think of for multi-person links is groups of Listel transferring information.

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Karst45 »

Arioch wrote:The only practical use I can think of for multi-person links is groups of Listel transferring information.
and to answer TrashMan question before he ask it, no i doubt that "information transfer" involve naked loroi and/or jello.

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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Ktrain »

Question: Are there mutations/birth defects which can limit/prevent the development the use of sanzai? Like being deaf or mute, only telepathically. Do/would the Loroi terminate such individuals in the womb or has their medical technology advanced enough to prevent/repair such defects (though if this were so then what is preventing the Loroi from just genetically engineering a bunch of Teidar)?
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Arioch »

It's certainly possible, but most pregnancies in which there was a serious detectable birth defect would be terminated very early in pregnancy.

In response to the second part of your question, psychokinesis is an emergent trait that the Loroi can't predict. There is no "gene" for PK (as far as the Loroi can tell, anyway).

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Razor One
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Razor One »

Ktrain wrote:Question: Are there mutations/birth defects which can limit/prevent the development the use of sanzai? Like being deaf or mute, only telepathically. Do/would the Loroi terminate such individuals in the womb or has their medical technology advanced enough to prevent/repair such defects (though if this were so then what is preventing the Loroi from just genetically engineering a bunch of Teidar)?
As a converse to this question, have there been any Loroi born with an exceptional level of Sanzai / TK?

I'm talking head and shoulders above even the bell curve here, ala our version of Idiot Savant's, the kind of telepathic capabilities that would give even Farseers pause. Take their abilities and dial them up to eleven, and damn the consequences.

I'd imagine them only cropping up once or twice a generation, if at all. Most likely lead very solitary lives.

I can just imagine an ultra-teek in their middle ages inadvertently smashing buildings or causing organs to explode violently when angered... both revered for their powerful abilities and potential as a warrior and feared for the sheer level of damage they could do if angered.

An ultra-teep on the other hand I can see fulfilling an almost sage-like role. They'd either be stark raving mad from the incessant chatter or be incredibly mentally strong and balanced.

Just rambling a bit.
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Cdr Straker
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by Cdr Straker »

....And, perhaps, more interesting, is that these individuals would relish contact with humans, as it would be so refreshing to them to not hear the noise of spurious thoughts, nor the machinations of another's plots and schemes. The quiet intercourse of verbal conversation might be as soothing as a cool spring to these individuals.......

Or....... It might be a nightmare of unimaginable proportions for these gifted souls; to not be able to detect the presence, much less read the thoughts of these beings, must be terrifying....... Do they mean me harm? What do they want? Why can't I see them?

First contact can be a bizatch........
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by NOMAD »

Cdr Straker wrote: Or....... It might be a nightmare of unimaginable proportions for these gifted souls; to not be able to detect the presence, much less read the thoughts of these beings, must be terrifying....... Do they mean me harm? What do they want? Why can't I see them?
Interesting idea of a Ultra-TK abilities being a double edge sword. Would this mean having engative effect on their health( IE the farseers having a reduced life span becuase of their gifts.)

I could see it working out, like a limit on the Loroi biological development.
Last edited by NOMAD on Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TrashMan
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Re: Farsense and Sensibility.

Post by TrashMan »

Karst45 wrote:
Arioch wrote:The only practical use I can think of for multi-person links is groups of Listel transferring information.
and to answer TrashMan question before he ask it, no i doubt that "information transfer" involve naked loroi and/or jello.
Could you double-check that? There si no need to hurry. I can wait. :ugeek:

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