Lightsabers!

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Grayhome
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Lightsabers!

Post by Grayhome »

Hey Arioch, are there Lightsabers yet in the Outsider Universe?
OhpleasesayyesOhpleasesayyesOhpleasesayyesOhpleasesayyesOhpleasesayyes
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Thank you in advance :D

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RedDwarfIV
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by RedDwarfIV »

I'm pretty sure no one would bother. A gun is ranged, and in close-quarters combat, you might as well use a bayonet. If you can make a laser small enough to fit in your hand, why would you confine it to sabre length?
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sunphoenix
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by sunphoenix »

Much as I'd love the idea.. I have to agree with RedDwarfIV... though its possible a sonic sword might be available... coupled with a holo-emitter to keep the wielder aware of where the blade is would get the same effect. I believe in UltraTech the first available are sonic sword s before the coming of the force sword which is a TL12-14 'Master's of Force" era toy.

Maybe eccentric Loroi might use a sonic sword but I'd say only the Soia or the Historians might have access to such device as a Force Sword... but likely only as a curiosity.
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Arioch
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Arioch »

Only a [insert racial slur here] would bring a knife to a gun fight.

The lightsaber is unique to the Star Wars universe because it requires a Jedi's Force techniques to be able to deflect ranged attacks and therefore be a useful weapon. In the hands of a non-Force-user, a blaster is a far superior weapon, able to operate with equal effectiveness both at long range and at very close range (as Greedo discovered to his detriment). In addition, a lightsaber would require very high technology to create, probably higher than most of the Outsider combatants possess.

Bayonets were useful when rifles were as long as spears and had very limited ammunition which took a long time to load. Modern rifles are short and handy, are quick to reload and can be used in close combat unless you're literally in a phone booth or completely out of ammo, in which case a pistol sidearm is your best bet.

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Charlie
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Charlie »

Greedo shot first. Solo acted in self defense.

The Knights of the Old Republic, one and two, has backround material that ascribes the continual development of "Vibroswords" too the effectiveness of personal shields against blaster fire.
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Arioch »

Charlie wrote:The Knights of the Old Republic, one and two, has backround material that ascribes the continual development of "Vibroswords" too the effectiveness of personal shields against blaster fire.
That makes sense in a setting like Dune that actually uses personal shields, but I've never seen a personal shield used in any canon Star Wars media... and if they existed and were truly effective, then everyone should be using them, and blasters would be obsolete... but that's clearly not the case. Vibroblades were no doubt introduced in the games so that your pre-Jedi player characters would have something to use before lightsabers became available.

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sunphoenix
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by sunphoenix »

Yeah Arioch I think the 'cannon' reason why personal shields are no longer used is because the very special materials and the technology were lost int he various continuing wars that devastated whole planets and wiped out whole species of races across the millenia.

I know I always felt "why is the tech from the past better in STAR WARS rather than the reverse?" This is their only reasoning... but STAR WARS is NOT Science Fiction ...like Outsider tries to be.. STAR WARS is Space Opera.. not the same genre of story telling their science and history do not need to be necessarily consistent.

Oh.. and the Jedi of the Old Republic DID use Light sabers..but there was an abundance at that time of Cortisis weave materials that were resistant to lightsaber energies so an abundance of Cortosis weave vibroblades were available at that time as the First Sith Blades were Cortosis -Weave Dark Force-Empowered weapons.

In the New Hope Era Cortosis weave materials are sparse and many sources lost to history and legend.
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Charlie »

The shields had limited "Battery Life", if you will, they could be burned up completely by stronger weapons or chipped away by smaller ones. Even just waiting for them to expire.
It terms of Star Wars lore, the tech was simply lost. The Cortosis-weave that kept the swords from falling against lights sabers was no longer use by the time of Darth Vader`s Empire.

Game balance, a decent shield, decent-ish Vibro weapon and a few points in the relevant skills; It is easy to
crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

I can`t say much about Dune though, it`s been more than a few years since I saw the movies or anything related to Dune.

Edit: Pretty +1 for sunphoenix.
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

In the original Star Wars theatrical release, not only did Han shoot Greedo first, but Greedo didn't even get a shot off at all. Kind of like how in the original release of E.T. the government agents had guns instead of walkie talkies. :P

Seriously though, in Star Wars a new hope, it was strongly implied that light sabers were an outdated holdover from an era that was fading into obsolescence. Making the distinction between space opera and not science fiction isn't even necessary. In the original Star Wars, there was a very strong theme of "Old vs New," which drew its parallels from the increasing mechanization of war that the world experienced in World War 2. I suspect that the Star Wars expanded universe and Old Republic settings are good examples of "power creep," and of technobabble taking on a life of its own.
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Karst45 »

Arioch wrote:Bayonets were useful when rifles were as long as spears and had very limited ammunition which took a long time to load. Modern rifles are short and handy, are quick to reload and can be used in close combat unless you're literally in a phone booth or completely out of ammo, in which case a pistol sidearm is your best bet.
that or to get dog-tag.. because we all know you cant collect those on the body you just shotted 3 feet from you.

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Grayhome
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Grayhome »

But wait, weren't the Loroi using melee weapons up till and after first contact with the Delrias?

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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by sunphoenix »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

In the original Star Wars theatrical release, not only did Han shoot Greedo first, but Greedo didn't even get a shot off at all. Kind of like how in the original release of E.T. the government agents had guns instead of walkie talkies. :P

Seriously though, in Star Wars a new hope, it was strongly implied that light sabers were an outdated holdover from an era that was fading into obsolescence. Making the distinction between space opera and not science fiction isn't even necessary. In the original Star Wars, there was a very strong theme of "Old vs New," which drew its parallels from the increasing mechanization of war that the world experienced in World War 2. I suspect that the Star Wars expanded universe and Old Republic settings are good examples of "power creep," and of technobabble taking on a life of its own.
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Another thing to remember though you don't really get told that in the Cannon Universe stuff or movies.. you only figure it out if you played the STAR WARS - West End Game Role-Playing Game...

Back in the time of the Old Republic.. the standard energy weapon firearm was the pulse-wave laser weaponry of the time... weaker than the modern 'A New Hope' blaster weapon technology. In ANH {A New Hope} Era there were blaster cannons and no one used the inferior laser or pusle-wave weapons of over 1,000 years ago. Vibroweapons with Cortosis weave were only in-fad at that time because there were so many Jedi roaming about. Even before the Dark Times and the Rise of Darth Vader during the purge there were no where near as many Jedi as there were in the time of the Old Republic when the Jedi could field Entire ARMIES of lightsaber wielding Battlemaster Jedi!

...and also yes indeed As icekatze there has indeed been a bit of power creep, inconsistent with the fact that no one is telling stories in film after Return of the Jedi.. all the stories are in the past and thus not completely consistent with the time line. But Lucas would say the Galaxy is a VERY big place where culture rise and fall technology is discovered and lost again in the tide of conflict between the forces of light and darkness in the struggle for supremacy for the galaxy :)
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by fredgiblet »

icekatze wrote:I suspect that the Star Wars expanded universe and Old Republic settings are good examples of "power creep," and of technobabble taking on a life of its own.
Very much both.
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This needs to be edited into a single image, and I'm too lazy to do it.
sunphoenix wrote:...and also yes indeed As icekatze there has indeed been a bit of power creep, inconsistent with the fact that no one is telling stories in film after Return of the Jedi.. all the stories are in the past and thus not completely consistent with the time line. But Lucas would say the Galaxy is a VERY big place where culture rise and fall technology is discovered and lost again in the tide of conflict between the forces of light and darkness in the struggle for supremacy for the galaxy :)
They are now. Disney is going to be pumping out a movie a year IIRC.

Also, I don't care what Lucas says anymore, he can say that Vader was Luke's father and I'll check with another source first.

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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Charlie »

I was just age checking, I am well aware of who shot first. I saw all the Star Wars and E.T. on VHS.
Pro tip: Videos can be rewound by sticking you fingers in the holes and turn it backwards.

I did watch the original TRON and I did like TRON: Legacy, So I'm really hopeing the new Star Wars will be good.
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Mr Bojangles »

One may not have to worry (as much) about timeline inconsistency and "power creep" in the near future, as Disney and Lucasfilm are going to be eliminating levels of canon in the EU. Just one canon, centered around the movies and whatever new material gets cranked out by Disney. I'm not sure what'll make the cut; the RPG that sunphoenix mentions probably won't.

@Charlie - I also enjoyed the original TRON and Legacy, though I'm not sure I share your optimism about the new Star Wars. But, that's probably just me being too cynical.

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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Nemo »

Meh. I was a big SW fan as a kid, Lord only knows how much time I actually spent playing X-Wing or TIE Fighter, but you can call me a cynic. I doubt seriously the canon is going to be straightened out so much as the old stories erased to make room for money makers, regardless of quality. Thats just business.

Personally, I always liked the ANH era precisely because it left the Jedi out. Kept them romantic and let the everyman play a role. The one problem I've had with the universe is the constant portrayal of the Imperials as cliched, scenery munching badies. Yes its easy to make people hate puppy kickers, but it makes for poor narrative. The "Order" the Empire sought to impose on civilization, how it came about and why, the good intentions behind it all, was totally lost in favor of racism genocide and insanity. Quick nod to Arioch, thats something I appreciate about the Umiak/Loroi so far. Neither is portrayed as evil for its own sake.



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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Jericho »

Nemo wrote: Personally, I always liked the ANH era precisely because it left the Jedi out. Kept them romantic and let the everyman play a role. The one problem I've had with the universe is the constant portrayal of the Imperials as cliched, scenery munching badies. Yes its easy to make people hate puppy kickers, but it makes for poor narrative. The "Order" the Empire sought to impose on civilization, how it came about and why, the good intentions behind it all, was totally lost in favor of racism genocide and insanity. Quick nod to Arioch, thats something I appreciate about the Umiak/Loroi so far. Neither is portrayed as evil for its own sake.
What you are describing is actually what appeals to me about the original trilogy. It follows a very classical narrative of good vs evil. It's not really a complex story it is simple and lighthearted in it's execution and makes a very good story to enjoy for every age group. This you can thank our Judeo/Christian heritage in the west were evil is evil simply because and the story is more about the hero's trials than the complexity of the situation.

Essentially you are watching a story about a hero that faces evil and is tempted by it only to finally overcome it in the end by turing to the self explained and appointed light of the universe.
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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by Nemo »

This you can thank our Judeo/Christian heritage in the west were evil is evil simply because
That... has nothing to do with a Judeo/Christrian background. Its not a unique feature, or defining characteristic of such a society. If it were Star Wars would never have seen the world wide appeal it did. In truth, all moral systems are built with such a faith based assumption at their core. Its part of being human. The mind has to take short cuts because processing time is limited. Its a bit like the arithmetic logic unit, you can build vastly different languages and programs from the same ingrained set of truths. The Jihadists of todays world, the Crusaders of yore, the Romans, the Nazis, the Atheists and the Christians, all behave 'morally'... from a certain point of view. In each case the layman accepts certain truths to be either self evident, or accepts them from authority. Simply because.

There is certainly a noticeable Yin-Yang influence in the movies, absurdly so in the prequels.



Funny thing about the original trilogy and EU is you saw a shallow simple thing, where I saw a morality play hiding in the shadows waiting to be realized. Something for everyone I guess.

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Re: Lightsabers!

Post by uthilian »

I believe in the Book "the Courtship of Princess Leia" the Hapan Prince Isolder had a personal shield but its use was restricted due to both the heat produced (I believe he burns the face of a assassin with it in the book) and power used by the shield

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