Writing Prompts

[novius]

I forgot - who is Sedel?

Mizol Parat Sedel, spoken name Tempo

@New Frontiers

SpoilerShow

That could be a bit early to consider. Nathanial and the diral haven't even decided (yet...) how they would go from there, and there'd be still a lot of training and catching up to do for him. Either this means still a lot of progress to write or to skip over (I do prefer write, though - show, not tell) between 'now' and 'him getting involved in inter-clan strife', or this would be stuff for a sequel where we pick up at the point where the former diral and Nathanial is well-established and sent on various missions.

Yet, that they'd get involved sooner or later, that's a given. After all, the Mizol did recognize the diral and him as a valuable asset, and it would be foolish not to use them as it is equally foolish to burn them out.

@Beacons - Werra

SpoilerShow

Then she seemed to deliberate something, playing with the fingers of her right with the hair on her shoulder. It didn't last long before she spoke again.

Interesting for Duskcrown to refer to Tempo, and displaying the same mannerism of playing with her hair than Tempo does (or did) - any relation perhaps? - Nope, just coincidence. Duskcrown herself admitted to know her 'only' in passing. Though, Loroi aren't known to be big on family relations further apart than mother and daughter.

[entity2636]

@Novius - Tempo's native to Perrein down to her bone marrow, not just a Perrein "citizen", so any relation would be near impossible.

[Werra]

Many Loroi would play with their hair, as they do wear it long. Such a trait is too common to hint at a shared family background. Now if Tempo had the same hair colour as Duskcrown that would be something as Perreinids usually have dark hair.

@New Frontiers

SpoilerShow

Oh, I don't mean to timeskip the Diral into the civil war. Just that the beginnings of the civil war affect them already. There might be other interest groups in play, for example.

[novius]

Many Loroi would play with their hair, as they do wear it long. Such a trait is too common to hint at a shared family background. Now if Tempo had the same hair colour as Duskcrown that would be something as Perreinids usually have dark hair.

I know, I did redact my post, after all.

I think there is some posting with Duskcrown's character sheet somewhere, but I can't seem to find it anymore. Though, I might have been mistaken.

Perhaps we should open up another thread just for the purpose to collect all the character sheets, one posting per actual WP storyline...

[Werra]

Page 31

[orion1836]

I forgot - who is Sedel?

Mizol Parat Sedel, spoken name Tempo

Ah, thank you.

[Werra]

Check the spoiler in this post for a handy cheat sheet.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 733#p24733

Leinnol and Dellasoni sound not half as martial as Fireblade and Stillstorm. Their names in general have a different effect in Trade than in English. I do wonder if that would effect viewer perception of certain figures.

[orion1836]

I like how Arioch names the rank tabs 'Glowy.'

[entity2636]

Leinnol and Dellasoni sound not half as martial as Fireblade and Stillstorm. Their names in general have a different effect in Trade than in English. I do wonder if that would effect viewer perception of certain figures.

That is subjective to the language one uses and the context of the names in said language. I'd argue that in Trade both names sound just as martial as their translations do in English, i.e. they have the same martial context, meaning and "feel".

That being said, while I believe that when translating something, people's and place names should not be translated literally, only adapted according to the destination language's rules to make the text feel natural and not sound stupid (for example, if said target language differentiates between masculine and feminine names by adding appropriate word endings, or pronunciation rules require some letters changed, one should do so, but not substitute a name for it's equivalent in the target language if such exists (John = Johan = Jonas = Ivan), in Outsiderverse all conversations actually happen in Trade and are "mentally translated" by the narrator, therefore it would be more appropriate to translate all names and places (Fireblade instead of Leinnol).

[Edit]
Speaking of military ranks in Outsiderverse in the same context that all conversations actually happen in Trade but are mentally translated to English by the narrator, I would say Major Fireblade, Admiral Stillstorm, Lieutenant Beryl and Colonel Tempo rather than half-ass their rank in Trade and name in English. Your thoughts, gentlemen?
[/Edit]

[Werra]

Well, I meant their names in Trade have a different effect on us readers, of course.

You're right about a half assed translation not making much sense. But the comic has a first person narrator, these stories do not. When a Loroi viewpoint is used, the names, ranks and measurements used would therefore need to be completely different.
It would make more sense to use only Trade names. As seen in the comic, the Loroi translate their names as a courtesy to Alex (Beryl, Tempo) or assume that Alex knows the word. (Talon, Spiral)

The system we currently have allows us to use their Trade titles and human ranks like Admiral in different contexts. I believe that's best for easy reading.

[entity2636]

Well, I meant their names in Trade have a different effect on us readers, of course.

You are correct, it's a foreign language that we don't speak or understand without a dictionary, most of us anyway, so the context of those words is lost to us. Same as, for example, the name of the Russian city of Astrahan will sound perfectly normal to most English speakers, but will cause smiles and giggles in those who know English and rude Russian, or Mitsubishi Shogun, known in non-Spanish speaking countries as the Pajero.

As seen in the comic, the Loroi translate their names as a courtesy to Alex (Beryl, Tempo) or assume that Alex knows the word. (Talon, Spiral)

..which is weird, all things considered, and feels like clumsy writing from Arioch, because, for example, "eilis" means "beryl" as in the mineral, in ITL and would not need to be additionally translated for Alex to understand, he would "translate" it in his mind if he knew the word.

[novius]

Reminds me of the mistakes the car manufacturers made with naming the Lancia Nova and Mitsubishi Pajero as they are - these names didn't go over too well in spanish-speaking countries.

BTT, there's one panel early on, where Alex's voice over says that from there on, everything that is spoken is in Trade, and yes, the formal names and the spoken names would be the same, given the translation. Eilis indeed means that mineral Beryl in Trade.

Word Of God has it that the formal name includes a telepathic component as well which isn't readily translated into vocal form.

[Werra]

The Loroi speak their own dialect of Trade, as seen when Alex has trouble with some of the words. That might be the reason for the Loroi to translate their names. Notice how the Loroi not considerate of diplomacy and unskilled in spoken language do not offer a translation, while Beryl and Tempo do.

[novius]

New part of Beacons is up.

Of course the evening left some quite deep impressions on both Alex and Duskcrown.

[dragoongfa]

You took some liberty with the crossfire game, it's far more abstract and less complex than a video game setting as you put it.

Well done on the rest though.

EDIT: @Werra I will see if I can write something on the story you started today.

[novius]

You took some liberty with the crossfire game, it's far more abstract and less complex than a video game setting as you put it.

I imagined it as a mixture between a strategy game like chess and a tabletop RPG where the pieces actually have their own attack/defense ratings - which could be influenced and changed over the course of the game. After all, the Loroi do have decades to ponder over its intricacies and learn the game to mastery, so I figured that it must be considerably more complex than chess.

Could even be that there are several variants of this game, starting with a 'basic' set and rules; and hers would already be one of the more advanced ones.

[Werra]

This isn't meant to be personal. Just something I need to get off my chest. It's an issue I've been having for a while and recent feedback towards Beacons I read seemed to confirm it. Maybe you disagree completely.

SpoilerShow

That last part from Duskcrowns viewpoint turned her from an interesting, fresh character into the same warm, monotonous sludge any Loroi in Beacons already is. It did by taking away all possibility of danger from her character. She's now sharing exactly the same thoughts and motivations about mankind any Loroi seems to have. That mankind is amazing and can measure up to Loroikind. No, worse, that humans might be even better. She went from a clear advocate of xenocide to someone that desperately wants to be mankinds ally.
This is a deeper problem with all Loroi characters. They don't feel like people. They're flat boards on which to project how cool humans are. None of them ever put forth any meaningful argument against Alex positions when it comes to war or society. No Loroi in this story has the balls to tell Alex to eat shit when he tells them of how humans handle something better. Not one ever reminded Alex that mankinds experience with space warfare is exactly zero, that Loroi society and biology are completely different, alien to humanity and that therefore other rules apply. Instead they all quickly agree that mans way is better than the silly things the Loroi have been doing.

Which is the biggest problem Beacons has as a story. Alex has never once felt bad, unless you count annoyance at being courted by beautiful women. There was never a problem that didn't quickly resolve itself by some Loroi bending over once confronted with Alex. Think back to the Loroi that appear in Beacons. Every Loroi that didn't kiss ass is quickly discarded and really never mentioned again. Feel free to prove me wrong with counter examples.

Your opinion may vary, but I try to add characters and situations into the story that stick out of the monotony. From the activity that my parts cause, I like to think that I succeed at least sometimes. But everytime the story inevitably returns to its dreary sludge of warm feelings within 3 or so writing parts.

There aren't many characters left in the story that interest me. I'll probably try at least once more before I vacate my space for others.

TL;DR Please consider retracting the second part of that last bit.

@dragoongfa
Don't feel forced to anything. If the story doesn't pick up, I'll turn it from a writing prompt into normal fanfiction. But by all means, enjoy yourself if you'd like to contribute.

[Razor One]

RE: Beacons

SpoilerShow

The feeling that I got from Duskcrown is that while she's appreciative of Jardin and is inferring what humanity is like from him, that if push came to shove and they sided with the shells she wouldn't hesitate to wipe them out. In the best case scenario, a few small colonies would spared, then relocated inside Loroi space where they'd then undergo a low key cultural genocide which would ultimately end up with men segregated from women at birth. Human women would likely occupy a new civilian caste below the loroi civilian caste, whilst human men would be raised from birth by loroi caretakers who would open up their sanzai skills and be strategically inserted into various commands and postings for telepathic and 'other' purposes.

That hypothetical aside, she's still 'dangerous' in the sense that she's going to be demanding a lot of Jardin and his entourage. Failure to make non-intimate contact via sanzai with someone else is likely to have consequences, as would failing to stay 'open' to those outside his inner circle, given she's basically ready to pull the rug out from under him. Beyond that, she's going to be calling on him and those around him to perform extraordinarily. She's likely to be putting the Tempest and SG-51 front and center in any battle strategy from here, even if it risks Jardin, and see what kind of off the wall thinking will shake out. It does say in her bio that she's willing to take chances on people, so a set of additional challenges and requirements where he passes some but fails at others is a possibility.

Beyond that, you've got Stillstorm and Duskcrown being at odds with each other. Managing the minefield between their political differences can also be a source of potential conflicts and even danger for Jardin and company. You've also got the elephant in the room that is the Loroi emperor, the Deinar files, and the Barsam religion gaining a very large piece of legitimacy.

That being said, if your aim is to make Jardin feel bad, he should arguably still be feeling some degree of PTSD from the loss of the Bellarmine. Funerals aside, nobody gets over losing a ship and crew easily. You've also got the stress of potentially having to explain the entire situation to a very likely unsympathetic admirality who can and will paint him as a maverick thinking with his small head and not his big one, and trying to explain that to Loroi who will either not understand or will try to assure him that it all makes sense when they have no idea what the external optics of the situation will be to humanity at large. The Tempo situation is more immediate, and he'll have to make peace with that situation soon enough, so that can likely be a more immediate and organic source of angst.

One potential counterpoint that I believe could be beneficial might be to introduce a loroi male to the mix. It has been stated several times that they disdain the war, so having that conversation could be interesting, with neither side really changing their position and the loroi male coming to the conclusion that human males are barbaric whilst Jardin views his opposite as effete and sheltered.

[novius]

RE: Beacons

SpoilerShow

One potential counterpoint that I believe could be beneficial might be to introduce a loroi male to the mix. It has been stated several times that they disdain the war, so having that conversation could be interesting, with neither side really changing their position and the loroi male coming to the conclusion that human males are barbaric whilst Jardin views his opposite as effete and sheltered.

Actually, I thought along the same line, that it would have to happen sooner or later. Given that Duskcrown did allow - or rather ordered to have - him access to one sensitive resource already, namely Tempest's farseer, another one wouldn't be too far out of question. Especially since Loroi males aren't solely busied with that one singular purpose and actually serve in more civil roles, as scientists, for example. Duskcrown could ask Alex to bounce a few of his more outlandish ideas off of them.

Stillstorm and Duskcrown, especially Duskcrown, wouldn't hestitate to use all resources available to win this war. Personally, they do might appreciate Alex, but when duty calls, personal likes and dislikes come second, as Duskcrown had made it evidently clear. She gives off the vibe of "listen, I like you, and I wouldn't want to execute for dereliction of duty if you're slacking off, but I will do so if necessary".

Apart from that, it is difficult to bring up an antagonist in direct contact with Alex in a setting like this. For example, if it's someone from the rank and file starting to harass him, one superior officer would sooner or later order them to put a cork in it for the sake of the smooth operation of the ship, and if said superior officer with a lot of clout has it in for Alex, she could easily revoke his privileges and toss him into the brig... or worse. And in the latter case, Alex is acutely aware of his still quite precarious situation and would do its utmost to not to tick off anyone up the command chain.

Yet, Alex could face some crosswind, though on a less direct level. The ideas he bounced off Stillstorm and Duskcrown weren't completely novel, but already quite controversial in certain circles. The latest example was the idea to field gunboats in a more aggressive manner, where Duskcrown is already aware that she herself, and by extension Alex, would surely face a lot of opposition by the Tenoin caste elders.

And politics can be quite a quagmire.

[entity2636]

RE: Beacons

SpoilerShow

While I kind of agree with Werra that Dustcrown, I mean Duskcrown, became a pro-human advocate a bit too quickly and too easily, I do not agree that Alex must face opposition that is so insurmountable and openly hostile toward him, Humanity or aliens in general, or has their head so high up their own ass that anything he says or does has same effect as running head first into a concrete wall. That's not challenge or drama, that's being pitted against physically impossible odds. This doesn't make for an engaging story, real life is already shitty and depressing enough. On the other hand, same goes for every loroi bending over and kissing ass, or 50 shades of blue. Some healthy middle ground is needed.

Unfortunately, while Arioch and long time fans desperately deny it, and in my opinion, each time the issue creeps up, try to prove that black is in fact white (perhaps out of fear of SJWs coming at them for creating a world where "space nazis" are the good guys), the canon Loroi Union is a loroi nationalist, elitist, oppressive, paranoid, xenophobic fascist state run by the military with a farce for a parliament, and is mistrusting at best and openly hostile at worst toward all non-union nations whom they perceive as a threat or competition, or that just happen to be in their way. They are NOT the "good guys" and the Umiak aren't the "bad guys", both nations are comparably bad from a third party perspective. This presents the problem of how to write a story with a global scope in such a setting that isn't grimdark and hopeless.

The solution to this is that while the Union as a whole is bad, some individual loroi can be quite agreeable once they get to know you. Plus, I feel like loroi come in three distinct flavors - the young ones are indoctrinated and brainwashed to such a degree that they have no opinions of their own and will attack tanks with knives if ordered to; mature pre-war loroi have opinions, interests and agendas of their own that not always line up with the state's opinion and can be reasoned with; veteran officers and diplomats who are effectively untouchable and can do what they want and how and play any game they wish. We have mostly worked with the second and third type. As for Spiral and Talon - where the air force begins, order and discipline ends. But I digress.

I see another reason why Duskcrown, after talking to Alex for a while and getting to know him better became less obviously hostile to him. She is responsible for this sector's defense and should be aware that she is not doing a terrific job, and that it's only her fleet between the Umiak and undefended Union interior. If she were to fail, she should have the decency to not come home alive if there still is a home left. Thus, if not yet desperate enough to look for "wonderwaffles", she will at least be more open to anything that could possibly somehow turn out to be a game changing advantage. Remember, she was a Listel and thus has perfect memory and the ability to remember and analyze every engagement, tactic and possible outcome to hell and back and see that one tiny detail everyone else missed. On the other hand, we do not know what other plans and agendas she and Shadow might have for the Terrans for later, there can be a million options.

[EDIT]
By the way, I just wanted to point out a plot hook that I feel should not be forgotten and should be explored further - the telepathic predator that the umiaks apparently use to generate their lotai field. With the upcoming battle drawing nearer, someone, maybe Tempo, should propose disabling and raiding a umiak ship to capture whatever they are using. That could be quite the meat grinder of an operation with plenty of room for action, drama and revelation.
[/EDIT]