[Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

[Bamax]

While interesting... the battle seemed like airplanes in space. Not newtonian.

Yeah... I am a bit of a KSP nerd.

You cannot please everyone I know.

But I do like newtonian maneuvering and prefer it too.

Well, I tried to limit the "hardness" of my fiction in two ways, by limiting technobabble (and Loroi Trade) and hard numbers (and Loroi units). Otherwise, it would overwhelm both the readers and the scope of a fanfic, which is essentially a short novel. In order not to overburden anything, I would need to write a lot of additional chapters in order to establish all those details slowly, yet steadily. I'm way too lazy for that.

But restrictions on realism (in-universe) or physics? Nope. That's not KSP, here the ships have inertial dampeners and can burn at 30g or more. This changes a lot of stuff and you can come close to dogfighting with smaller ships at least. That's why I use destroyers and frigates for those maneuvers, but if it overloads its dampeners? Newton WILL make it go boom.

Well... inertial dampeners mainly for the main engines.

Otherwise we are talking some really uber RCS or uber inertial dampeners.

Because one CAN fly airplane style in space with super efficient fuel, but it would be wasteful.

Tactically though? Given that speeds.are NOT fixed as in Elite Dangerous.... airplane flight does no favors I can think of. Newtonian is altogether superior at dodging if you have uber thrusters all around.

Why curve when you can jink side to side or up and down? Who cares if they are on your six when you can flip over and blast them?

Yeah... I used to watch Babylon 5 and I am familar with KSP. That's why I like that stuff.


I also like the game asteroids.

The original space war is fun too.

https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/

[Cthulhu]

Well... inertial dampeners mainly for the main engines.

Otherwise we are talking some really uber RCS or uber inertial dampeners.

Because one CAN fly airplane style in space with super efficient fuel, but it would be wasteful.

Tactically though? Given that speeds.are NOT fixed as in Elite Dangerous.... airplane flight does no favors I can think of. Newtonian is altogether superior at dodging if you have uber thrusters all around.

Why curve when you can jink side to side or up and down? Who cares if they are on your six when you can flip over and blast them?

Yeah... I used to watch Babylon 5 and I am familar with KSP. That's why I like that stuff.


I also like the game asteroids.

The original space war is fun too.

https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/

1. The inertial dampeners are for the ships themselves. Otherwise, they couldn't accelerate that much or survive jumps. The engines are using a system that increases the momentum of the exhaust instead. Without that, they wouldn't reach those speeds or/and have that fuel endurance.
2. The inertial dampeners are not nullifiers and they have their limits, otherwise we would see such crazy maneuvers in the comics. I even included an example of what happens when those limits are over-stressed.
3. Those "universes" have their own laws based on different lore and technologies. I'm working with what Arioch established and what I'm seeing in the comic.

[Bamax]

Well... inertial dampeners mainly for the main engines.

Otherwise we are talking some really uber RCS or uber inertial dampeners.

Because one CAN fly airplane style in space with super efficient fuel, but it would be wasteful.

Tactically though? Given that speeds.are NOT fixed as in Elite Dangerous.... airplane flight does no favors I can think of. Newtonian is altogether superior at dodging if you have uber thrusters all around.

Why curve when you can jink side to side or up and down? Who cares if they are on your six when you can flip over and blast them?

Yeah... I used to watch Babylon 5 and I am familar with KSP. That's why I like that stuff.


I also like the game asteroids.

The original space war is fun too.

https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/

1. The inertial dampeners are for the ships themselves. Otherwise, they couldn't accelerate that much or survive jumps. The engines are using a system that increases the inertia of the exhaust instead. Without that, they wouldn't reach those speeds or/and have that fuel endurance.
2. The inertial dampeners are not nullifiers and they have their limits, otherwise we would see such crazy maneuvers in the comics. I even included an example of what happens when those limits are over-stressed.
3. Those "universes" have their own laws based on different lore and technologies. I'm working with what Arioch established and what I'm seeing in the comic.

They INCREASE the inertia? I think you mean momentum... because inertia literally means resistance to a change in motion, which makes zero sense at all if used in the context you said.

I understand that Outsider is fiction and you must pick and choose what physics to obey.

I am not trying to tell you what to do. What I am saying is that sometimes knowing enough science can spoil scifi to the point I cannot watch or read it.

For example? Star Wars. Too far out for me. Star Trek has gone that way too, the new stuff.

Outsider I never really noticed dogfighting in space, even though I guess it is implied in some of the pics, if it ever became explicit space dogfighting like in Star Wars I suppose that would be more than enough to stop me reading the comic.

Because newtonian maneuvering in space for me is about as much a staple as gravity.

I cannot ignore it and still enjoy scifi.

Since newtonian maneuvering is superior to airplane flight in space if engines and thruster powers are equalized across the board.

Especially for space battles.

By the time an enemy loops around you can blast him doing a 180 degree turn.

It is also far easier and FASTER to do a 180 than an airplane turn in space.

[Cthulhu]

They INCREASE the inertia? I think you mean momentum... because inertia literally means resistance to a change in motion, which makes zero sense at all if used in the context you said.

I understand that Outsider is fiction and you must pick and choose what physics to obey.

I am not trying to tell you what to do. What I am saying is that sometimes knowing enough science can spoil scifi to the point I cannot watch or read it.

For example? Star Wars. Too far out for me. Star Trek has gone that way too, the new stuff.

Outsider I never really noticed dogfighting in space, even though I guess it is implied in some of the pics, if it ever became explicit space dogfighting like in Star Wars I suppose that would be more than enough to stop me reading the comic.

Because newtonian maneuvering in space for me is about as much a staple as gravity.

I cannot ignore it and still enjoy scifi.

Since newtonian maneuvering is superior to airplane flight in space if engines and thruster powers are equalized across the board.

Especially for space battles.

By the time an enemy loops around you can blast him doing a 180 degree turn.

It is also far easier and FASTER to do a 180 than an airplane turn in space.

Yeah, it increases the momentum of the exhaust, my bad.

Anyway, it's not really dogfighting in the sense of what we are used to, firing machine-guns at targets less than a kilometer away using iron sights. Here, the distances are measured in light-seconds and even "sharp" turns are dozens of kilometers wide. I'm just writing it that way in order to paint a picture that’s familiar for most readers. Even dodging does not mean literally getting out of the way at a moment's notice, but actually anticipating the torpedo flight paths and move into a position that the torpedoes could not reach in time considering their speed, reaction time and maneuvering ability.

Besides, soon it will be time for the Humans to appear and their ships will "cheat" around the laws of space-time even more and in unexpected ways.

[Bamax]

They INCREASE the inertia? I think you mean momentum... because inertia literally means resistance to a change in motion, which makes zero sense at all if used in the context you said.

I understand that Outsider is fiction and you must pick and choose what physics to obey.

I am not trying to tell you what to do. What I am saying is that sometimes knowing enough science can spoil scifi to the point I cannot watch or read it.

For example? Star Wars. Too far out for me. Star Trek has gone that way too, the new stuff.

Outsider I never really noticed dogfighting in space, even though I guess it is implied in some of the pics, if it ever became explicit space dogfighting like in Star Wars I suppose that would be more than enough to stop me reading the comic.

Because newtonian maneuvering in space for me is about as much a staple as gravity.

I cannot ignore it and still enjoy scifi.

Since newtonian maneuvering is superior to airplane flight in space if engines and thruster powers are equalized across the board.

Especially for space battles.

By the time an enemy loops around you can blast him doing a 180 degree turn.

It is also far easier and FASTER to do a 180 than an airplane turn in space.

Yeah, it increases the momentum of the exhaust, my bad.

Anyway, it's not really dogfighting in the sense of what we are used to, firing machine-guns at targets less than a kilometer away using iron sights. Here, the distances are measured in light-seconds and even "sharp" turns are dozens of kilometers wide. I'm just writing it that way in order to paint a picture that’s familiar for most readers. Even dodging does not mean literally getting out of the way at a moment's notice, but actually anticipating the torpedo flight paths and move into a position that the torpedoes could not reach in time considering their speed, reaction time and maneuvering ability.

Besides, soon it will be time for the Humans to appear and their ships will "cheat" around the laws of space-time even more and in unexpected ways.

I love dictionaries!

Inertial dampeners in plain english could be more easily understood as inertial reductors.

If you reduce the inertia on an object it requires less force to cause a change in motion. In other words what you lose in inertia you gain in momentum.

Massive objects are difficult to get up to high speed, but also hard to stop. Light objects are easy to get up to speed, amd easy to stop too.


Funnily enough, a side effect of inertial dampeners no one really explores is that they would ACTUALLY need to be shut off right before impact of a missile. If mixing with IRL physics anyway.

Why? The impact momentum of the missile would be multiplied far more than the usual force on the ship... all thanks to inertial damping.

Momentum is momentum. Does not matter where it comes from. Either the ship would get obliterated or put in a reckless 300g spin (because THAT os how fast they go, the missiles).

In fact inertial damping would not save the crew at all from that g-force. The one thing that could is a counter g-force by their artifical gravity. In any case with the inertial reductors off at impact the g-force the ships artifical gravity would have to counter at impact would be less than otherwise.

Scifi tropes tend put a whole umbrella of inertial damping as doing both jobs... but according to the dictionary it can only reduct inertia, not counter deadly g-force too.

[Cthulhu]

I love dictionaries!

Inertial dampeners in plain english could be more easily understood as inertial reductors.

If you reduce the inertia on an object it requires less force to cause a change in motion. In other words what you lose in inertia you gain in momentum.

Massive objects are difficult to get up to high speed, but also hard to stop. Light objects are easy to get up to speed, amd easy to stop too.


Funnily enough, a side effect of inertial dampeners no one really explores is that they would ACTUALLY need to be shut off right before impact of a missile. If mixing with IRL physics anyway.

Why? The impact momentum of the missile would be multiplied far more than the usual force on the ship... all thanks to inertial damping.

Momentum is momentum. Does not matter where it comes from. Either the ship would get obliterated or put in a reckless 300g spin (because THAT os how fast they go, the missiles).

In fact inertial damping would not save the crew at all from that g-force. The one thing that could is a counter g-force by their artifical gravity. In any case with the inertial reductors off at impact the g-force the ships artifical gravity would have to counter at impact would be less than otherwise.

Scifi tropes tend put a whole umbrella of inertial damping as doing both jobs... but according to the dictionary it can only reduct inertia, not counter deadly g-force too.

I have analyzed (or over-analyzed) the Loroi ship design and came to several conclusions.

1. The primary means of maneuvering seems to be thrust-vectoring (those fancy fins with the shining field generators), not secondary thrusters, because, either:
- the sub-thrusters needed for that are normally too weak or would be too big or too expensive (the ones visible are very small)
- the inertial dampening is directional, thus making such thrusters useless for high speeds (Stillstorm said that the Umiak would need to brake for another pass, even while not at top speed, thus showing the limitations of dampening)
- a combination of both

2. Even if it were possible, turning around would also mean turning the engines to the opposite of your vector of movement:
- you would lose acceleration, because the engines would be firing in the opposite direction
- if you turn them off, it may take some time to bring them back to full thrust and you would fly without accelerating
- making two sets of engines or some sort of swivel-able ones on a big ship would require too much space

3. A viable alternative would be mass cancelling, either shifting it out of phase relative to this universe or outright transferring it to a different dimension. That, however, is way outside the technical capabilities of the combatants, even the Historians.

4. The author is not a professor of theoretical physics, thus the universe he created may have a few holes if you nitpick long enough. Hell, even our universe has a lot of such holes, but mostly because we are not advanced enough to understand all the principles behind them.

5. If you really want to nitpick, please read up on the specifics, for example the torpedoes go 60g max.

[Dan Wyatt]

Wait, what just happened?

[Bamax]

Anti-missiles do go 300g.

They are. For closer ranges.

[Cthulhu]

Wait, what just happened?

Bugs was not able to prevent the Earth-shattering Kaboom this time.

Anti-missiles do go 300g.

They are. For closer ranges.

Exactly, they do have the rapid acceleration necessary for kinetic damage potential, but not the endurance for long ranges or maneuvers. Thus, they are unlikely to hit ships, unless fired from close-up by fighters.

[Bamax]

I enjoyed the third chapter more than the rest so far.


Loroi nerves are finally beginning to crack. I wanted to laugh when the Teidar nudged the Listel telekinenetically because the Listel did not want to say the obvious bad news of long travel times that have hardly changed much.


I presume humans will use warp drives as you mentioned space-time stuff with humans.

I also enjoyed he Loroi mechanic's banter. Reminded of a kitchen lunch cook lady. Frank and matter of a fact. No sugar coating stuff. Yet she still has a sense of humor despite how grim stuff is.

I liked the joke line about if 'we blow up maybe we will go wherever the Soia went.'

I guess the Soia are the closet thing to gods for the Loroi.

[Cthulhu]

I liked the joke line about if 'we blow up maybe we will go wherever the Soia went.'

I guess the Soia are the closet thing to gods for the Loroi.

The Soia are not truly gods. They were a highly advanced and god-like precursor civilization that was destroyed or most probably destroyed itself. Loroi claim that they are the true descendants of the Soia in order to claim primogeniture and to elevate them above others. But they do understand that their "ancestors" have blown themselves up to whatever afterlife they believed in.

I presume humans will use warp drives as you mentioned space-time stuff with humans.

Nope, here, the humans have dug up some precursor tech as well, and they have used it in unexpected ways.

[Snoofman]

Exciting description of the damaged reactor. I can totally see loroi from different castes clashing. Can't wait to see what unexpected force has rocked the ship.

Have you by any chance studied engineering? If so it seems to have help make a realistic reactor leak scene.

[Bamax]

Yeah... that was some serious Loroi version of technobabble.

The main difference between Star Trek technobabble and what is presented here is that they do not have power of plot technobabble.

Which is good. In TNG its seemed most problems could be solved by diverting more power to engines, shields, etc.

Here doing that has consequences, as it should IRL even though this is fiction.

[Cthulhu]

Exciting description of the damaged reactor. I can totally see loroi from different castes clashing. Can't wait to see what unexpected force has rocked the ship.

Have you by any chance studied engineering? If so it seems to have help make a realistic reactor leak scene.

Well, the force was probably the exploding reactor? Or maybe something else? Nah, I think it was pretty-self explanatory?

Also, I've studied the opposite, actually. Applied Philosophy, or Political science, to be exact.
I'm just imagining stuff, and a proper engineer would've picked that explanation apart. After all, I did not elaborate on how the beam propagated or why no sensors detected any stray radiation.

Yeah... that was some serious Loroi version of technobabble.

The main difference between Star Trek technobabble and what is presented here is that they do not have power of plot technobabble.

Which is good. In TNG its seemed most problems could be solved by diverting more power to engines, shields, etc.

Here doing that has consequences, as it should IRL even though this is fiction.

In Star Trek, the other half of the problems were solved by reversing the polarity of whatever unobtanium-powered technobabble generator of the day the writers invented in order to plug a plot hole.
Here, I wrote it pretty straightforward, drawing out more power from the machines then they are designed for is a gamble. They were desperate enough to try, sadly it did not turn out well...

[Bamax]

Cap Jardin merely shrugs at tge mention of the Umiak as a threat?

I guess this is a story where humans have massive upgrades. Since Jardin does not seem particularly threatened by the Umiak, which implies that they can take them down... without the Loroi... would just be harder due to Umiak numbers.

I guess this is going to be a stomp all over the Umiak whilw humaniti shows off eh?

The reverse of Outsider? Or should I say inverse?

[Dan Wyatt]

Insider

[Dan Wyatt]

I think it would have been better if Humanity's Psychic potential was still 'nil', it'd have shown us the differences between our culture (which is an important aspect of this webcomic).
You can slowly get into their psychic development later on like Arioch is doing.
Then again it's my 'opinion', I like 'Alien' mysteries.

[Cthulhu]

Insider

The Humans are still "Outsiders" and "Newcomers" here.

Since this is a story reversal, the Humans are the more advanced species, maybe around Historian tech level, although with their own priorities. They are not advanced or numerous enough for a one-sided stomping down (yet). Also, it's just a "scout" ship for now, but it does have some interesting abilities. Finally, Alex may be bluffing, or perhaps he is referring to the threat the Loroi are posing, who knows? Emberwing is not a Mizol, after all.

Human psi-tech, a recent discovery, follows unique principles, and this has shaped the society in unexpected ways. The difference is certainly there, but maybe the humans are not willing to reveal that too soon? I've placed a couple of hints here and there...

Overall, this is not a "Humanity, hell yeah!" nor a "Humans are Cthulhu" kind of story. Well, maybe a tiny bit?

[Bamax]

Well... I suppose there is a reason I actually keep up with this story as opposed to the others.

1. You update regularly.

2. You write well enough for immersion.

3. The Loroi are not written away as barely in control of their sexuality... as they seem to be elsewhere. Although I did find the fanfic where Alex is stationed to live with a bunch of Loroi males amusing, as it gave deep insight into Loroi culture and what matters o them as Loroi men.

This chapter was necessary but a bit boring, inasmuch it states things and theories users of this forum know all too well.

While Arioch has not confirmed the Beta race theory, so many here parrot it that I assumed it was canon.

Yet this is fanfiction, and updates will go much faster than Outsider's glacial speed.

[Cthulhu]

Well... I suppose there is a reason I actually keep up with this story as opposed to the others.

1. You update regularly.

2. You write well enough for immersion.

Thanks for your praise, it shall keep me motivated.

3. The Loroi are not written away as barely in control of their sexuality... as they seem to be elsewhere. Although I did find the fanfic where Alex is stationed to live with a bunch of Loroi males amusing, as it gave deep insight into Loroi culture and what matters o them as Loroi men.

I assume that Loroi were designed as a race of soldiers to crew ships, thus it would make sense that their creators assured mental stability. Also, Arioch stated that Loroi females react to Loroi males mostly due to some special telepathic quirks. Human males are therefore mute, discolored, oversized facsimiles. While there are strange fetishes out there, I doubt that they are too widespread. On the other hand, frontline soldiers may go to any lengths to obtain a little bit of comfort, even if it is a facsimile, hence the "pile" of page 183 with a warm "hug pillow".

This chapter was necessary but a bit boring, inasmuch it states things and theories users of this forum know all too well.

While Arioch has not confirmed the Beta race theory, so many here parrot it that I assumed it was canon.

Yet this is fanfiction, and updates will go much faster than Outsider's glacial speed.

I admit that the chapter may be boring for frequent, long-time forum-goers, but those are a small minority. For all the others, it will be necessary. It was written for character development and in order to hang a few more of those guns on the walls of our protagonist's cabin.

As to the race theory, I've prepared a plot twist on its purpose.