Reflections on the Hypothetical [fanfic] (DISCO INFERNO)

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ed_montague
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Re: A Reflection on the Hypothetical [fanfic] [FREE ALCOHOL]

Post by ed_montague »

Fotiadis_110 wrote:honestly? chemistry is universal, between all points in the universe as far as we can tell... CH3C3OH is a rather simple molecule to memorise and i'm almost certain there would be a source of it on a Loroi starship, either in food form, or some other useful purpose like cooling liquid ;)

Once alex showed a Listel the chemical structure and described a little about it they would know exactly what chemical species he is discussing, and i'm sure with fireblade and other guards 'encouraging' them they would likely manufacture or obtain him a nice strong source, probably a flammable one so he can impress the warriors by doing the equivalent of flaming vodka shots :p.
The phsycological effect and toxicity effects between our species may vary considerably, in particular consumption of ethanol might be lethal to Loroi :p
Drinking shots of flaming poison would certainly boost your popularity among a warrior caste system, such bravery!
Or he could be kidnapped smuggled out and sold to a illegal Loroi Circus act for millions of pounds gold equivilance, enough finances to put a lowly warrior into high standing among the rich and powerful in Loroi society.
As for how an illegal circus still exists in total warfare, i beleive i mentioned bored and wealthy arisocrats who would be amused watching a pink male, largely feminine in appearance, drink something that can only be described as toxic waste... on fire, while riding a unicycle... 5 meters above the ring with a Loroi Bear pacing around beneath him seeking to eat him.

maybe i should make up my own fanfic?


Edit: just thought i should make it clear the toxic waste is on fire... not Alex, at least not until after the popularity of the act wanes.
Everything you just said minus the bears. ;)
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Post by Fotiadis_110 »

sadly my own writing would be somewhat removed from Alex, till after the war.

I have images of a Umiak attack on a Loroi system with humans manning various freighters that are desperately trying to maintain the supply lines for both their allied warships and to assist the planet itself...

And all the Loroi muttering to themselves about those crazy humans retrofitting archaic Mass drivers onto their ships and doing the bored human thing of fiddling with the settings on their drives, inertiatics and such trying to extract all they can from their ship (much like hobbiests working on their supercharged V8 monster)

The rest would be spoilers :p

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Post by Absalom »

Fotiadis_110 wrote:honestly? chemistry is universal, between all points in the universe as far as we can tell... CH3C3OH is a rather simple molecule to memorise and i'm almost certain there would be a source of it on a Loroi starship, either in food form, or some other useful purpose like cooling liquid ;)
Chemistry is universal, but effects are not. Consider: chocolate & macadamia nuts are both poisonous to dogs (goodness only knows why we handle them easily), and onions are poisonous to cats.


They probably pulled out some weird non-alcoholic beverage, and accidentally got him stoned on some food coloring in it or something. This is why the medics would be introducing the diplomat to the local tequila-equivalent next time, instead of just letting Fireblade show him around ;) .

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Post by Trantor »

Absalom wrote:
Fotiadis_110 wrote:honestly? chemistry is universal, between all points in the universe as far as we can tell... CH3C3OH is a rather simple molecule to memorise and i'm almost certain there would be a source of it on a Loroi starship, either in food form, or some other useful purpose like cooling liquid ;)
Chemistry is universal, but effects are not. Consider: chocolate & macadamia nuts are both poisonous to dogs (goodness only knows why we handle them easily), and onions are poisonous to cats.


They probably pulled out some weird non-alcoholic beverage, and accidentally got him stoned on some food coloring in it or something. This is why the medics would be introducing the diplomat to the local tequila-equivalent next time, instead of just letting Fireblade show him around ;) .
That´s an interesting topic.
If we meet alien species in the future, how to ensure nutrition? Both ways? Except try and wait - is there enough knowlegde about food chemistry yet to avoid at least most trap doors?
sapere aude.

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Post by Solemn »

Trantor wrote:If we meet alien species in the future, how to ensure nutrition? Both ways? Except try and wait - is there enough knowlegde about food chemistry yet to avoid at least most trap doors?
The short answer is "no."

Interstellar travel would, I think, be very much a Bring Your Own Beer situation.

EDIT: Though that might change by the time Outsider takes place, 150 years in the future.

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Post by Trantor »

Solemn wrote:
Trantor wrote:If we meet alien species in the future, how to ensure nutrition? Both ways? Except try and wait - is there enough knowlegde about food chemistry yet to avoid at least most trap doors?
The short answer is "no." EDIT: Though that might change by the time Outsider takes place, 150 years in the future.
That´s exactly what i wanted to hear.
So, what´s to do? Scientifically? Systematically? Technically? Else?

Solemn wrote:Interstellar travel would, I think, be very much a Bring Your Own Beer situation.
<OT> I´d rather opt for czech beer... </OT>

Carrying tiny portions of samples could be a possible solution with advanced cultures like the Loroi, who could replicate them.
But what to do with less advanced ones?
sapere aude.

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Post by ed_montague »

Trantor wrote:Carrying tiny portions of samples could be a possible solution with advanced cultures like the Loroi, who could replicate them.
But what to do with less advanced ones?
1. Bring large amounts of common Earth foodstuffs.
2. Perform experimentation upon natives to determiner reactions to Earth foodstuffs.
3. ???
4. Profit! (By which, of course, I mean start your own "Humaniti Alcohol & Spirits" brewery/distillery/whatever)

...

I am led to conclude that most alien species obtain nutrition rectally, and their experiments upon abducted humans have been in search of human-compatible foodstuffs.
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Post by TeidarPallanLeinnol »

Trantor wrote:<OT> I´d rather opt for czech beer... </OT>
SO DO I BUT MOLSON EXPORT IS THE ONLY EARTH DRINK THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME THROW UP >:/

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Post by Solemn »

Trantor wrote:So, what´s to do? Scientifically? Systematically? Technically? Else?
Okay. Some things which can be metabolized and some of the processes by which those materials are broken down are worse than others, due to transition states and other various matters. You can metabolize ethanol, but some of the transition states between consumption and final breakdown will hurt your liver more than unprocessed ethanol will. Biochemically you can handle some isopropyl alcohol, and it may have similar effects to ethyl alcohol, but drinking it still isn't the best idea and it will never replace ethanol (which is, of course, poison in its own right. Sweet, beautiful poison). Some molecules that we can't actually use still interact with the structures that we use in our metabolic processes, like cyanide, which basically ruins your cellular respiration process. Some molecules that we can't/don't metabolize interact oddly in other ways, like LSD. Some molecules that we don't have enzymes for are dangerous and some are not and to know which is which we would need a better understanding of all possible human protein structures, as (with a total unknown) any of them could end up being an Achilles heel. We'd want to know every stage of the process and everything that might collide with this process at any stage.

With molecules that we can find on Earth, it'll probably be fairly simple for us and we likely have a lot of the poisons already identified and their danger levels fairly well understood; many centuries of trial and error have already been conducted on human subjects, after all (people put the strangest things in their mouths). If alien food is made out of common earthly biochemical recipes then in 150 years it should be simple enough to avoid immediate death. Even semi-artificial molecules, like LSD, are understood on our end. But, y'know, aliens. I'm not entirely confident that the things we might run into out there will even have DNA, though I admit I'm a carbon chauvinist. So no promises on everything they come with being some familiar substance.

With unknown molecules, we need to flesh out the specifics of protein interactions and complex protein forms (which hasn't happened yet, our studies of the human proteome aren't complete). The relevent studies are already well under way and have made significant progress. I expect us to have mapped out not only all human protein structures but all standard interactions by Alex's time. They should be able to predict a whole lot of things without resorting to live test subjects that we currently cannot. I have a fairly high confidence that within the next century we will have all human biochemical structures understood well enough to tell what will kill or not kill a human, in the short term. But, last time I checked, we still couldn't quite chemically explain how LSD does its work, which means that in I'm gonna say 2007-ish we still had limited ability to predict how a non-metabolized molecule would interact with the brain cells and what effects it would have there. LSD isn't toxic, but surely even its most vocal advocates would admit that if some aliens used it to color their food, the effects on a human diplomatic delegation could be seen as alarming and unwanted. We're obviously doing a LOT of studies in the field of neurology on all sorts of matters, especially biochemistry (people do want that whole "immortality" thing, you know), so, by Alex's time, I wouldn't worry about it. Admittedly LSD is not exactly the best comparison to the sort of predictive chemistry you're asking about, being a known chemical with known effects and studies of which are currently trying to understand HOW it has its known psychedelic effects rather than IF it might have any effects, but, one step at a time.

Now, even with the best sorts of predictive models, you're going to want actual lab tests and results. Culturing cells from various tissues and seeing what happens after they're exposed to various concentrations might sound crude, but it's a better idea than just hoping that "well if we/the aliens have an enzyme that can break the chemical down then it'll be fine." I'm of the opinion that you'll want a few stages in between the computer models and actual human test subjects anyways. We can't necessarily rely on something like a computer model right now, and I don't think we should rely exclusively on computer models in the future even if they seem like they might be good enough. I don't think we'll ever fully abandon the laboratory technician for the programmer.

So, you'll want a much more fleshed-out model of the human proteome detailing all variant forms and interactions (these projects are already underway) and/or such a fleshed-out model of the aliens' proteome (no promises), a full understanding of the chemistry of the food items in question (can be arranged), some lab tests on tissue samples, and some very tentative tests on live test subjects with very thorough monitoring after attaining the aliens' informed consent on the matter.
ed_montague wrote:4. Profit! (By which, of course, I mean start your own "Humaniti Alcohol & Spirits" brewery/distillery/whatever)
The Solar Spice and Liquors Company.

10 internet points for anyone who knows the reference without looking it up.

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Post by Michael »

hay on, I just re read the thread title, where is my free alcohol??
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Michael wrote:hay on, I just re read the thread title, where is my free alcohol??
Um...

Over there! --->
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It's a trap! There is no alcohol on the internet! :o
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Bwahaha! DANCE, MY PUPPETS! DANCE!
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Michael wrote:hay on, I just re read the thread title, where is my free alcohol??
RIGHT HERE

*GIVES MICHAEL A CASE OF MOLSON EXPORT*

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*looks at Molson Export* hmm alcohol of the non-cider verity, how novel *drinks alcohol and looks at others to make conversation*
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Real man drink vodka! or at least try to.

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ed_montague
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Karst45 wrote:Real man drink vodka! or at least try to.
Ha. Real men drink absinthe. 8-)
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real men avoid stuff that makes them stupid and do stuff that like going after females that just tease you that can get you into jail when you do not register her sudden 180 change fast enough.

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*awkward silence*

?!

*pour in another glass of vodka*

PARTYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

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