Outcast Quest [Updated 10/10/18 - Turn 14]

[dragoongfa]

Personally I would like to wait for the hab until the thrusters are on the way to be fully tiered. We can repair the damages if an asteroid accident happens but people are worth far more than RU at the moment. It's just that I don't like the rolls we have been getting so far. Previously I would accept the risk with just the altitude thrusters but now I have a bad paranoid feeling about Razor's evil laugh.

[joestej]

Personally I would like to wait for the hab until the thrusters are on the way to be fully tiered. We can repair the damages if an asteroid accident happens but people are worth far more than RU at the moment. It's just that I don't like the rolls we have been getting so far. Previously I would accept the risk with just the altitude thrusters but now I have a bad paranoid feeling about Razor's evil laugh.

I'm less concerned about an asteroid incident I am about something else going wrong. This would be a very bad time for an Urkuk salvage/raiding fleet or one of those Nafen scouts to wander into the Briars.

[dragoongfa]

I think that we are still well within our safety period before razor starts rolling for random encounters (I believe that it is around 12 to 16 months judging from the descriptions) , which is why I want to get the crucial infrastructure and projects done early so we can full throttle to drydock, retrofit L'amour and build a few corvettes for base defense by turn 16.

EDIT: Hmm...

Did some research on the matter and I came up with turn 18 at the earliest, with some good RU income, provided that we build nothing but industry after the hospital and a couple of mines:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Adding some turns for research and building then we are looking for new ships and the retrofit at turn 20.

Hmm...

I doubt that Razor will give us two years of no random encounter rolls so I think that we will have to pray for no encounter at the rolls whenever they start, Razor did say that the odds of an encounter are very low to begin with after all.

[Absalom]

EDIT: Question, we have data hard drives and Arioch has made it clear that there are longevity treatments available at the tech level humanity is (Even went as far to say that there are people alive now that are still alive when the comic takes place). I think that we should address the aging population with a Bio Lab + Longevity production research. Will you allow this?

Data Drives probably won't be worth it until late in the early-game, or the mid-game.

It's on Stewardship between Hab Comp, Crop Diversity and Attitude Thrusters.

Voted to break the tie.
[X] 2/3 Rations
[X] Improving Relations
[X] Hab. Complex
[X] Attitude Thrusters
[X] Background Piece
[X] Wind Current Analysis

I think that we are still well within our safety period before razor starts rolling for random encounters (I believe that it is around 12 to 16 months judging from the descriptions) , which is why I want to get the crucial infrastructure and projects done early so we can full throttle to drydock, retrofit L'amour and build a few corvettes for base defense by turn 16.

EDIT: Hmm...

Did some research on the matter and I came up with turn 18 at the earliest, with some good RU income, provided that we build nothing but industry after the hospital and a couple of mines:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Adding some turns for research and building then we are looking for new ships and the retrofit at turn 20.

And does your analysis, pray-tell, account for the time required to design those corvettes? A drone fleet seems more likely to me at turn 18 than corvettes, and we'll have to design the drones.

Also, they'll be more disposable, since, you know, they don't require crews. Manned warships will automatically be expensive unless a reproductively-viable population of Urkuk are recruited, and even then it'll take a few dozen turns.

[dragoongfa]

The problem with drones is firepower and range.

How many weapons can we put on a drone and what is the range in which such a drone can be controlled?

At best the weapons of a fighter (which may be more expensive than the drones themselves) and 300.000 kms from the base based on the sensor limit.

Building a lot of drone fighters sounds like a good idea on paper but the issue is the maximum range that we can control them (and the infrastructure needed to control them). A light second is just too close and if our defensive fleet is comprised solely of drones then when L'amour aint there every defensive fight will be within the light second distance. Which is a recipe for disaster just from the projectile weapons of the Urkuk (then consider the fact that the actual range of the fight will be far closer due to the clouds). Then there is the danger of a single Urkuk ship running away and calling in a horde because our drones don't have the range to hunt it down and kill it.

One of the greatest mistakes people make when thinking about defense is mistaking active defense for passive defense. A corvette is a small warship, smaller than a frigate but bigger, more maneuverable, better armed and armored than any conceivable drone fighter (and a military transport truth be told). With a minimal crew a small flotilla of corvettes can take on active defense roles away from our base, intercepting fleets and causing havoc away from it to misdirect reprisal campaigns.

In short, drones aren't flexible at all but manned corvettes and frigates are.

EDIT: Machine Shop 2 allows for ship building so I hope that research can start when that factory is finished.

[alpha]

Sorry for the short post.

[X] 2/3 Rationing
[X] Improving Relations
[X] Diversification
[X] MineOpsExpansion
[X] Know Thy Enemy
[X] Wind Current Analysis

Still following my sort-of min/max plan. Complications are fun.

Also, I think it's tied again.

[Absalom]

How many weapons can we put on a drone

Depends on the drone's control systems.

and what is the range in which such a drone can be controlled?

This setting? ~1 light second of the closest node of an operational command-relay network. Supposing 5 drones, and that each is capable of acting as a command-relay (not difficult to imagine, since it's conceptually comparable to ordinary network hardware: this will be standard-issue within the next 50 years), you can have 1 drone operational ~5 light seconds away from the source of the commands. More relays introduces more delay, but also more distance.

At best the weapons of a fighter (which may be more expensive than the drones themselves)

And here you've made a slight mistake, because this simply is not true: the drone hardware restricts the number of systems that can be controlled, but the restriction on WHAT weapons (and thrusters, and armor, etc.) you can use is NOT tied to your fighter capabilities, but instead to the capabilities of what you can build that is simple enough to control with a drone: with the right drone hardware, you could control an entire battleship.

Building a lot of drone fighters sounds like a good idea on paper but the issue is the maximum range that we can control them (and the infrastructure needed to control them).

Maximum range depends on networking, and you go with drones first because they don't require as much infrastructure to build in the first place. When you don't need all of the ones you have, just keep the others in storage.

A light second is just too close and if our defensive fleet is comprised solely of drones then when L'amour aint there every defensive fight will be within the light second distance.

Not true, including with real-life military drones, see above.

One of the greatest mistakes people make when thinking about defense is mistaking active defense for passive defense. A corvette is a small warship, smaller than a frigate but bigger, more maneuverable, better armed and armored than any conceivable drone fighter (and a military transport truth be told).

And completely implausible to build in the early turns. The colony would be lucky to be able to justify gunboats early-on, and those are a better early-target, since they can be used as command-origins for drone fleets.

With a minimal crew a small flotilla of corvettes can take on active defense roles away from our base, intercepting fleets and causing havoc away from it to misdirect reprisal campaigns.

In short, drones aren't flexible at all but manned corvettes and frigates are.

And when the colony can justify building them, it'll either be late in the early game, or early in the mid-game. Do not underestimate the expense of a proper ship, corvettes aren't small.

[Razor One]

Survey is now closed.

Turn 4 Results

--

Rationing:

[X] Two Thirds Rationing

With a regular, if somewhat vulnerable, supply of food now coming in, you are more than happy to bump up the rationing to two meals a day for everyone, to everyone's delight. It's not enough for everyone to regain all that they've lost in these lean times, but at the very least it will prevent them from losing more.

Diplomacy: Ensign Izumi is your most effective diplomat when it comes to aliens, though you're no slouch yourself in that department. (Choose One.)

[X] Improving Relations: Developing a closer rapport with your Loroi guests would definitely be a plus. Put some time and effort into learning each other's cultures.

Cost: 0, Time: 1 Month, Chance of Success: 90%, Reward: Boost in Loroi Opinion, ???

Rolled: 68 + 14 = 82, Success
Spear Rolled: 99 + (-24) - 5 = 70, Success

You spend some time preparing an introduction to Terran Culture for your Loroi guests while they... you assume they're doing the same. All you need to do is figure out what you want to know, and what you're willing to share with them.

What do you ask the Loroi? (Choose 4)

[] Ancient History
[] Recent History
[] Personal History
[] House Politics
[] Other Species
[] Telepathy
[] Culture
[] Technology
[] Personal Inquiries
[] Regional Knowledge

What do you choose to divulge? (Choose 3)

[] Ancient History
[] Recent History
[] Personal History
[] The TCA
[] Lack of Telepathy
[] Culture
[] Personal Inquiries
[] Regional Knowledge

Reward: Interlude Unlocked: Equitable Exchange

Stewardship: Alex Cole and an economist, Samantha Nguyen, have worked out not only a way to easily tabulate your resources, but also what you can do to build your colony up. (Choose Two)

[X] Habitation Complex: Your colonists are itching to get out of the passenger module and stretch their legs. The habitation complex will provide room for 500 people to live comfortably.

Cost: 1000 RU, Time: 1 Month, Chance of Success: 80%, Reward: Habitation Complex Built, New Options, Colonists off your ship, Improved morale, Requires 250 RU upkeep.

Rolled: 23 + 14 = 37, Success

You never saw much point in ribbon cutting ceremonies, but this one you're all to happy to participate in. The hab complex now houses your colonists and Colonel Pierce's marines, those not assigned to guard duty of your Loroi guests, in peace and comfort, firmly off your ship.

And to be frank, you were honestly getting sick of civilians running to and fro, on and off your ship. They're gone now. They're finally gone and you can now manage your ship as you damn well should.

Still, this marks the end of the crisis of being marooned in a different universe with no support. Your colonists have food, they have shelter, and with you standing watch over them, they have a thin veil of protection against a potentially hostile universe.

Reward: Crisis Mode deactivated, Personal Actions unlocked, Military Actions unlocked, your characters stress levels go down

[X] Attitude Thrusters: Affix some basic chemical thrusters to your asteroid home, allowing you to pitch, yaw and roll at a sedate pace. Any asteroid on a collision course will simply tap off at a harmless point, leaving your colonists shaken, but not stirred.

Cost: 1000 RU, 125 RU Upkeep, Time: 1 Month, Chance of Success: 90%, Reward: Able to avoid catastrophic damage from flying mountains.

Rolled: 30 + 14 = 44, Success

In order to avoid potential catastrophe, attitude thrusters are affixed to your asteroid home in strategic points and linked to a control network. With the flick of a button and the twisting of a joystick, one can pitch, yaw, and roll your asteroid home to avoid dangerous collisions, albeit at a slow pace.

Reward: Typical asteroid collisions cannot harm civilian structures, able to rotate Niflheim to present least vulnerable side to potential attackers.

Intrigue: "The Blue Rose greets you Captain. We eagerly await the results of the Great Game in which you've chosen to play! Oh what fun we'll have watching!" (Choose One)

[X] Know thy Enemy: As convenient as the Blue Rose was for information on Sam Whittaker, you still don't know a whole lot about him. Blow him off for the rest of the month while you do a bit of your own digging.

Cost: 0, Time: 1 Month, Chance of Success: ???, Reward: ???

Rolled: 97 + (-8) = 89, Success

Between the increase in rationing and some of the more chaotic elements of shipping hundreds of people down to the surface, Sam Whittaker is easily blown off for the entire month with little more than "The Captain is too busy".

In the meantime, you've employed the lessons of your youth and gone snooping. You know your ship well, you know how to find places where the sound carries, and you quickly discern who Sam Whittaker's associates are, who his neighbours are, and what they think of him by a combination of discreet questions and careful listening in.

He's an ass. He has no sense of personal space, borrows things without permission, and likes to spread rumours. Overall, he isn't very well liked by those that know him, and those that don't know him have heard about his less than tactful ways.

There's probably more to him, but you know a fair amount. Enough to potentially deal with him you hope.

Reward: +20 to actions vs. Sam Whittaker

Learning: You have many skilled people at your beck and call just waiting to tear into the unknown and reveal its juicy, succulent knowledge. (Choose One)

[X] Wind Current Analysis: A few civilians want to analyse the wind currents around your home. They feel it could have important implications in determining nearby satellite movements, whatever those strange noises are rumbling off in the distance, and possible defensive applications.

Cost: 0, Value Needed: 89 / 200, Reward: Knowledge of wind currents. Bonus to defensive actions around your home. ???

Rolled: 91 + 15 = 106 + 89 = 195 / 200

Their research goes splendidly this month. In fact, they're practically done, they just need to collate their data and put it into a presentable format. Perhaps if they had a little more time?

{Edit}

Miscellaneous:

Spear's English Roll: 52 + 12 + 1048 = 1112 / 3000
Izumi's Trade Roll: 43 + 15 + 15 + 765 = 838 / 1750

<< Turn 4 || Interlude - Equitable Exchange >>

[dragoongfa]

snip

So in essence we build corvette sized and bigger warships that don't have any crew, since anything more than fighter sized weapons, powerplants, armor, propulsion, sensors and electronic systems still need a relatively bigger hull. These drones will also have several seconds of delays in receiving their orders and will always be horribly outnumbered by everyone because of the need to put relays in place (heaven forbid if someone actually tried this before and the enemy knows to shoot down a single relay). They will also be very susceptible to combat damage and ECM since there will be no crew aboard to do combat repairs and counter the ECM.

[dragoongfa]

Hmm...

I would like to split what we learn in 50% regional knowledge and 50% Vital Loroi knowledge

[X] Telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] Regional Knowledge
[X] Other Species

Divulge

[X] Lack of telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] The TCA

I doubt that this will be the only time we do this so let's get some basic and essential stuff down before trying to dig into history and personal stuff.

[Razor One]

Turn 5 Odds and ends are done, just waiting on a few more votes so I can write an interlude that isn't predicated on one guy's vote.

That being said, some notes.

Because your location is the Briar Patch, its unique feature is a severe reduction in sensor range. The entire region is essentially pea soup. You don't have a 1 light second range there, and beam weapons are halved in effectiveness.

Your current sensor range is about 30,000 kilometers. It's not all bad though. Volkova states that Urkuk sensors are worse than yours, so the most they can see is between 3000 and 300 kilometers at best, so even in a worst case scenario, you'll see them long before they see you. There is a reason after all that the Urkuk fear the Briar Patch. Someone more advanced than you might have a better time of it though.

Ships need to be designed before they can be built. Once you've got the basic chassis designed, modifications are relatively easier.

For example, once you get your Drone Research done, you can research an aerobreathing mod that allows them infinite flight and loiter time in the Briar Patch, and another mod that allows them to fly autonomously. Both of them would likely be something like 100 points worth of research, so a single turn if you roll well, two or three if not. You can also research a spy drone that will let you try to get a look at what's happening beyond the Briar Patch, though that's a bit tougher since it needs to operate for longer and without a quasi-planetary environment providing it with free fuel.

Military actions should allow you to build up a solid layer of defense, and you are still within the safety margin... or are you?

[joestej]

Hmm...

I would like to split what we learn in 50% regional knowledge and 50% Vital Loroi knowledge

[X] Telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] Regional Knowledge
[X] Other Species

Divulge

[X] Lack of telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] The TCA

I doubt that this will be the only time we do this so let's get some basic and essential stuff down before trying to dig into history and personal stuff.

Seems reasonable. While holding our telepathic immunity back would make for a nice trump card, we've got enough leverage already. Their culture isn't going to make much sense until we know more about their telepathy, and we're going to want to know more about their culture so we know how they and their people will likely react.

Ask

[X] Telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] Regional Knowledge
[X] Other Species

Divulge

[X] Lack of telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] The TCA

[dragoongfa]

Personally I want to see what we have to do in order to further limit the Lotai malus to our diplomacy score. Taking it into account as early as possible sounds like a solid avenue to pursue.

[Razor One]

Your Lotai malus will apply to distinct groups, so vs. the Loroi in your care, you've made good progress, which will probably pass on to Arilad once they find out the good deed you did.

Other Loroi houses will not be as easily placated. They will look at you and anything you do with a large amount of suspicion.

Personally, I'm interested in seeing you discover your other hidden bonuses, but you'll need to step up your game for that.

[Siber]

At the moment I'm more concerned with building ties with these Loroi than with mining them for more broadly useful info


Learn:
[X] Personal History
[X] Telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] Personal Inquiries

Divulge

[X] The TCA
[X] Lack of Telepathy
[X] Culture

[dragoongfa]

I think that one of next diplomatic actions will also be one for Improving our relations so whichever we choose now is all down to the priorities we have. Personally I want to know more about our surroundings and immediate threats after we learn about the Loroi culture and their telepathy.

[joestej]

Lots of stuff about drones.

Not sure about Absalom's relay idea. It's great for scouting, but I suspect that even a one second command delay would make controlling the drones very difficult in battle.

Similarly, I suspect remote control of large ships isn't going to be an option for us. That fact that neither the Loroi nor the Umiak could automate a warship of any significant size in our home universe suggests it's just too complex a task for TL10 or TL11 cultures. TL12 races seem to have no problems with it, but that's a LONG way off.

Still, the idea of aerodrones for defense is a very good one. The reduced visibility of the Briar Patch opens up an option that otherwise wouldn't be very viable: kinetic weaponry. A Medium Terran railgun has an effective range of 2,000 km, barely less than our most generous estimates for an Urkuk vessel's visual range. Kinetic weapons have a better RoF than lasers, and even the lighter models hit like a truck.

Based off the size of the turrets on TCA cruisers, a 'bomber' drone with a single GWS MS-100 cannon would still be the size of a fighter, but could dish out similar damage to a Loroi Plasma Pulse Cannon. Slap some stealth armor on to get them closer to more advanced ships, and anything coming into the Briars is going to be in for a VERY bad day.

At the moment I'm more concerned with building ties with these Loroi than with mining them for more broadly useful info

Siber does make a good point in that future information mining attempts will go better if we focus on relationship building first. We won't know what actions they'll be favorable to and which they'll dislike until we know more about them personally. On the other hand, they might get offended that we're wasting time playing social instead of focusing on real issues. Without more knowledge there's no way to be sure. I'll let my vote stand as it is.

Personally, I'm interested in seeing you discover your other hidden bonuses, but you'll need to step up your game for that.

We have not yet BEGUN to game!!!

[anamiac]

What do you ask the Loroi? (Choose 4)

[] Ancient History
[] Recent History
[] Personal History
[] House Politics
[X] Other Species
[X] Telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] Technology
[] Personal Inquiries
[] Regional Knowledge

What do you choose to divulge? (Choose 3)

[] Ancient History
[] Recent History
[X] Personal History
[] The TCA
[X] Lack of Telepathy
[X] Culture
[] Personal Inquiries
[] Regional Knowledge

[alpha]

Ask:
[X] Other Species
[X] Telepathy
[X] Culture
[X] Regional Knowledge

Divulge:
[X] Ancient History
[X] The TCA
[X] Culture

Will we have other opportunities to share information?

[joestej]

Will we have other opportunities to share information?

Presumably yes, as it's not as though the Loroi are going anywhere. But it will take up more actions, so we'll want to get the most out of each conversation.