Writing Prompts

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entity2636
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by entity2636 »

Werra wrote:Well, I meant their names in Trade have a different effect on us readers, of course.
You are correct, it's a foreign language that we don't speak or understand without a dictionary, most of us anyway, so the context of those words is lost to us. Same as, for example, the name of the Russian city of Astrahan will sound perfectly normal to most English speakers, but will cause smiles and giggles in those who know English and rude Russian, or Mitsubishi Shogun, known in non-Spanish speaking countries as the Pajero.
Werra wrote:As seen in the comic, the Loroi translate their names as a courtesy to Alex (Beryl, Tempo) or assume that Alex knows the word. (Talon, Spiral)
..which is weird, all things considered, and feels like clumsy writing from Arioch, because, for example, "eilis" means "beryl" as in the mineral, in ITL and would not need to be additionally translated for Alex to understand, he would "translate" it in his mind if he knew the word.

novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

Reminds me of the mistakes the car manufacturers made with naming the Lancia Nova and Mitsubishi Pajero as they are - these names didn't go over too well in spanish-speaking countries.

BTT, there's one panel early on, where Alex's voice over says that from there on, everything that is spoken is in Trade, and yes, the formal names and the spoken names would be the same, given the translation. Eilis indeed means that mineral Beryl in Trade.

Word Of God has it that the formal name includes a telepathic component as well which isn't readily translated into vocal form.

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Werra
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

The Loroi speak their own dialect of Trade, as seen when Alex has trouble with some of the words. That might be the reason for the Loroi to translate their names. Notice how the Loroi not considerate of diplomacy and unskilled in spoken language do not offer a translation, while Beryl and Tempo do.

novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

New part of Beacons is up.

Of course the evening left some quite deep impressions on both Alex and Duskcrown.

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dragoongfa
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by dragoongfa »

You took some liberty with the crossfire game, it's far more abstract and less complex than a video game setting as you put it.

Well done on the rest though.

EDIT: @Werra I will see if I can write something on the story you started today.

novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

dragoongfa wrote:You took some liberty with the crossfire game, it's far more abstract and less complex than a video game setting as you put it.
I imagined it as a mixture between a strategy game like chess and a tabletop RPG where the pieces actually have their own attack/defense ratings - which could be influenced and changed over the course of the game. After all, the Loroi do have decades to ponder over its intricacies and learn the game to mastery, so I figured that it must be considerably more complex than chess.

Could even be that there are several variants of this game, starting with a 'basic' set and rules; and hers would already be one of the more advanced ones.

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Werra
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

This isn't meant to be personal. Just something I need to get off my chest. It's an issue I've been having for a while and recent feedback towards Beacons I read seemed to confirm it. Maybe you disagree completely.
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That last part from Duskcrowns viewpoint turned her from an interesting, fresh character into the same warm, monotonous sludge any Loroi in Beacons already is. It did by taking away all possibility of danger from her character. She's now sharing exactly the same thoughts and motivations about mankind any Loroi seems to have. That mankind is amazing and can measure up to Loroikind. No, worse, that humans might be even better. She went from a clear advocate of xenocide to someone that desperately wants to be mankinds ally.
This is a deeper problem with all Loroi characters. They don't feel like people. They're flat boards on which to project how cool humans are. None of them ever put forth any meaningful argument against Alex positions when it comes to war or society. No Loroi in this story has the balls to tell Alex to eat shit when he tells them of how humans handle something better. Not one ever reminded Alex that mankinds experience with space warfare is exactly zero, that Loroi society and biology are completely different, alien to humanity and that therefore other rules apply. Instead they all quickly agree that mans way is better than the silly things the Loroi have been doing.

Which is the biggest problem Beacons has as a story. Alex has never once felt bad, unless you count annoyance at being courted by beautiful women. There was never a problem that didn't quickly resolve itself by some Loroi bending over once confronted with Alex. Think back to the Loroi that appear in Beacons. Every Loroi that didn't kiss ass is quickly discarded and really never mentioned again. Feel free to prove me wrong with counter examples.

Your opinion may vary, but I try to add characters and situations into the story that stick out of the monotony. From the activity that my parts cause, I like to think that I succeed at least sometimes. But everytime the story inevitably returns to its dreary sludge of warm feelings within 3 or so writing parts.

There aren't many characters left in the story that interest me. I'll probably try at least once more before I vacate my space for others.

TL;DR Please consider retracting the second part of that last bit.
@dragoongfa
Don't feel forced to anything. If the story doesn't pick up, I'll turn it from a writing prompt into normal fanfiction. But by all means, enjoy yourself if you'd like to contribute.

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Razor One
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Razor One »

RE: Beacons
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The feeling that I got from Duskcrown is that while she's appreciative of Jardin and is inferring what humanity is like from him, that if push came to shove and they sided with the shells she wouldn't hesitate to wipe them out. In the best case scenario, a few small colonies would spared, then relocated inside Loroi space where they'd then undergo a low key cultural genocide which would ultimately end up with men segregated from women at birth. Human women would likely occupy a new civilian caste below the loroi civilian caste, whilst human men would be raised from birth by loroi caretakers who would open up their sanzai skills and be strategically inserted into various commands and postings for telepathic and 'other' purposes.

That hypothetical aside, she's still 'dangerous' in the sense that she's going to be demanding a lot of Jardin and his entourage. Failure to make non-intimate contact via sanzai with someone else is likely to have consequences, as would failing to stay 'open' to those outside his inner circle, given she's basically ready to pull the rug out from under him. Beyond that, she's going to be calling on him and those around him to perform extraordinarily. She's likely to be putting the Tempest and SG-51 front and center in any battle strategy from here, even if it risks Jardin, and see what kind of off the wall thinking will shake out. It does say in her bio that she's willing to take chances on people, so a set of additional challenges and requirements where he passes some but fails at others is a possibility.

Beyond that, you've got Stillstorm and Duskcrown being at odds with each other. Managing the minefield between their political differences can also be a source of potential conflicts and even danger for Jardin and company. You've also got the elephant in the room that is the Loroi emperor, the Deinar files, and the Barsam religion gaining a very large piece of legitimacy.

That being said, if your aim is to make Jardin feel bad, he should arguably still be feeling some degree of PTSD from the loss of the Bellarmine. Funerals aside, nobody gets over losing a ship and crew easily. You've also got the stress of potentially having to explain the entire situation to a very likely unsympathetic admirality who can and will paint him as a maverick thinking with his small head and not his big one, and trying to explain that to Loroi who will either not understand or will try to assure him that it all makes sense when they have no idea what the external optics of the situation will be to humanity at large. The Tempo situation is more immediate, and he'll have to make peace with that situation soon enough, so that can likely be a more immediate and organic source of angst.

One potential counterpoint that I believe could be beneficial might be to introduce a loroi male to the mix. It has been stated several times that they disdain the war, so having that conversation could be interesting, with neither side really changing their position and the loroi male coming to the conclusion that human males are barbaric whilst Jardin views his opposite as effete and sheltered.
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novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

RE: Beacons
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Razor One wrote:One potential counterpoint that I believe could be beneficial might be to introduce a loroi male to the mix. It has been stated several times that they disdain the war, so having that conversation could be interesting, with neither side really changing their position and the loroi male coming to the conclusion that human males are barbaric whilst Jardin views his opposite as effete and sheltered.
Actually, I thought along the same line, that it would have to happen sooner or later. Given that Duskcrown did allow - or rather ordered to have - him access to one sensitive resource already, namely Tempest's farseer, another one wouldn't be too far out of question. Especially since Loroi males aren't solely busied with that one singular purpose and actually serve in more civil roles, as scientists, for example. Duskcrown could ask Alex to bounce a few of his more outlandish ideas off of them.

Stillstorm and Duskcrown, especially Duskcrown, wouldn't hestitate to use all resources available to win this war. Personally, they do might appreciate Alex, but when duty calls, personal likes and dislikes come second, as Duskcrown had made it evidently clear. She gives off the vibe of "listen, I like you, and I wouldn't want to execute for dereliction of duty if you're slacking off, but I will do so if necessary".

Apart from that, it is difficult to bring up an antagonist in direct contact with Alex in a setting like this. For example, if it's someone from the rank and file starting to harass him, one superior officer would sooner or later order them to put a cork in it for the sake of the smooth operation of the ship, and if said superior officer with a lot of clout has it in for Alex, she could easily revoke his privileges and toss him into the brig... or worse. And in the latter case, Alex is acutely aware of his still quite precarious situation and would do its utmost to not to tick off anyone up the command chain.

Yet, Alex could face some crosswind, though on a less direct level. The ideas he bounced off Stillstorm and Duskcrown weren't completely novel, but already quite controversial in certain circles. The latest example was the idea to field gunboats in a more aggressive manner, where Duskcrown is already aware that she herself, and by extension Alex, would surely face a lot of opposition by the Tenoin caste elders.

And politics can be quite a quagmire.

entity2636
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by entity2636 »

RE: Beacons
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While I kind of agree with Werra that Dustcrown, I mean Duskcrown, became a pro-human advocate a bit too quickly and too easily, I do not agree that Alex must face opposition that is so insurmountable and openly hostile toward him, Humanity or aliens in general, or has their head so high up their own ass that anything he says or does has same effect as running head first into a concrete wall. That's not challenge or drama, that's being pitted against physically impossible odds. This doesn't make for an engaging story, real life is already shitty and depressing enough. On the other hand, same goes for every loroi bending over and kissing ass, or 50 shades of blue. Some healthy middle ground is needed.

Unfortunately, while Arioch and long time fans desperately deny it, and in my opinion, each time the issue creeps up, try to prove that black is in fact white (perhaps out of fear of SJWs coming at them for creating a world where "space nazis" are the good guys), the canon Loroi Union is a loroi nationalist, elitist, oppressive, paranoid, xenophobic fascist state run by the military with a farce for a parliament, and is mistrusting at best and openly hostile at worst toward all non-union nations whom they perceive as a threat or competition, or that just happen to be in their way. They are NOT the "good guys" and the Umiak aren't the "bad guys", both nations are comparably bad from a third party perspective. This presents the problem of how to write a story with a global scope in such a setting that isn't grimdark and hopeless.

The solution to this is that while the Union as a whole is bad, some individual loroi can be quite agreeable once they get to know you. Plus, I feel like loroi come in three distinct flavors - the young ones are indoctrinated and brainwashed to such a degree that they have no opinions of their own and will attack tanks with knives if ordered to; mature pre-war loroi have opinions, interests and agendas of their own that not always line up with the state's opinion and can be reasoned with; veteran officers and diplomats who are effectively untouchable and can do what they want and how and play any game they wish. We have mostly worked with the second and third type. As for Spiral and Talon - where the air force begins, order and discipline ends. But I digress.

I see another reason why Duskcrown, after talking to Alex for a while and getting to know him better became less obviously hostile to him. She is responsible for this sector's defense and should be aware that she is not doing a terrific job, and that it's only her fleet between the Umiak and undefended Union interior. If she were to fail, she should have the decency to not come home alive if there still is a home left. Thus, if not yet desperate enough to look for "wonderwaffles", she will at least be more open to anything that could possibly somehow turn out to be a game changing advantage. Remember, she was a Listel and thus has perfect memory and the ability to remember and analyze every engagement, tactic and possible outcome to hell and back and see that one tiny detail everyone else missed. On the other hand, we do not know what other plans and agendas she and Shadow might have for the Terrans for later, there can be a million options.
[EDIT]
By the way, I just wanted to point out a plot hook that I feel should not be forgotten and should be explored further - the telepathic predator that the umiaks apparently use to generate their lotai field. With the upcoming battle drawing nearer, someone, maybe Tempo, should propose disabling and raiding a umiak ship to capture whatever they are using. That could be quite the meat grinder of an operation with plenty of room for action, drama and revelation.
[/EDIT]

novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

entity2636 wrote:By the way, I just wanted to point out a plot hook that I feel should not be forgotten and should be explored further - the telepathic predator that the umiaks apparently use to generate their lotai field. With the upcoming battle drawing nearer, someone, maybe Tempo, should propose disabling and raiding a umiak ship to capture whatever they are using. That could be quite the meat grinder of an operation with plenty of room for action, drama and revelation.
I am keeping that in mind. And even just planning the operation may put people at odds. On one side, those who opt to keep Alex far away from a pitched, high-risk boarding action, even if it's just for a reason that they don't want to lose a (still) unique asset, on the other side those who think Alex's presence is needed, just because he might have a better idea what they'd be looking for, for starters.

If there aren't any takers, I could write the next part, likely featuring a (rather heated) discussion around that topic as well....

entity2636
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by entity2636 »

Plus, if I was in Alex's place, I'd insist to be part of the boarding operation to both prove my personal loyalty and allegiance in a way the loroi understand and don't question, and to prove/disprove for myself that humans are not (or are? if so, then how, why and to what extent) the cause for all this mess. Most loroi would definitely oppose Alex putting himself in danger which would also be a source for drama and tension.

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Razor One
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Razor One »

Re: Beacons
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Okay, so we've got the following potential plotlines coming up in the future:

Making up with Tempo
The Siege of Nezel
The Bedein Encounter
The Gunship Arc
I'm Not Your Buddy, Friend (Jardin/Male Encounter)

Making up with Tempo has to happen at this point. Leaving her hanging for too long doesn't feel right with how he's been characterised and it wouldn't feel right for Alex to maintain a grudge given the full contextualisation of just how badly she could have screwed him over. It'd probably have to be the last of the 'quiet' arcs to occur before the following.

The Siege of Nezel and the Bedein Encounter should probably occur in tandem, with the fight for the system and boarding action being executed in sequence. Ideally the climax of both plotlines should dovetail for an exciting double crescendo of action and revelation.

The Gunship Arc should be the next 'quiet' plotline to be executed after the battle of Nezel, assuming it's successful. I'd argue that Alex should probably take a more supportive role in this one, whilst Talon and Spiral take the fore on this. Alex's opinion can be easily dismissed as male, alien, and outsider by the Tenoin clan elders. They can't just as easily dismiss a pair of ace pilots who are set on making the gunship a workable platform. There'd probably be at least a handful of gunships in mothballs from the prototyping and final design stages, so there could potentially be a wargame or live fire test to feel out its viability. Politics and intrigue potentially abound, both internal and external.

Jardin meeting with his opposite number is something that's been on a number of people's minds. Could happen at any time, but I expect their conversation to be interesting and potentially enlightening. Cultural exchange is always as fun to write as it is to read.

Beyond that, I'd suggest the following:

Each character gets an arc where they stand in the spotlight. Alex is arguably the viewpoint character, and I'm not arguing that we change that, but there should be sections of the narrative where the other characters are driving things forward. A few ideas I've had in mind in no particular order:

Barsam Bedtime stories: A discussion of Barsam theology, Alex's feelings thereof, and perhaps some insight as to how humanity in general might react to a few of the troubadour-clerics paying them a visit sometime.

Encounters with various Union members, Arekka, Pol, Neridi, perhaps even the Mannadi, don't really have a plot in mind but one might shake out.

Beryl gets called in by her caste elders to relay and distribute her information about humanity. Comes under some scrutiny and potential fire for perhaps getting too close to her research subject.

Fireblade has to face the last of her internal demons. Perhaps a fellow survivor of the Seren occupation? Another Teidar who challenges her to a duel? Kind of vague on this.

Tempo regaining her honour. Best I could think of was that some shadowy group tries to abduct Alex and Tempo saves his butt by being the glorious lying spook that she's purported to be. Also Jedi. There must be Jedi references. :P

The Long Road: This one's been bouncing in my head, but since New Frontiers is already heavily referenced, perhaps a few or even just one of the lost diral survived to this day? They would be pushing into their old age but it's more than plausible that if any had survived all this time then they'd push for meeting Alex. Probably best to let it sit until New Frontiers is further along though.

Imperial Imperative: Alex and company meeting with the Emperor. Has to happen sooner or later.

Stillstorms Glorious Revenge: Exactly what it says on the tin. Another backburner project, but one that I believe should have Stillstorm planning and then leading and offensive into Shell territory Sunfall style, except better and with a lot more dead shells. Could potentially be a culmination of all the prior arcs, with the gunship program in full swing paying dividends, the Bedein study paying off and so on.

The Journey Home: With the war well in hand, the situation stabilised, Jardin heads home with a delegation of Loroi to formalise diplomatic contact between humanity and the Loroi union. Not necessarily the end of the story if people want to keep writing for it at this point, but potentially the beginning of a whole new set of shenanigans.
RE: New Frontiers
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My shifts have changed, so I technically have more time. Technically. I'll try to see about moving the story forward when I can, unless someone has something ready to contribute in the next day or two.
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Werra
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

@Beacons
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Thanks for correcting my perspective, guys. The Loroi still seem a bit lifeless and flat always falling into the same tropes beneficial to humanity, but that can be fixed. I am looking forward to more than the usual three getting involved, as the others contributions have always been very worthwhile.

Making up with Tempo/her honour:
When I wrote that I had no idea what price she might ask. An immoral offer is the most obvious price, but since the data Alex wants is Mizol property, he might be asked to pay for it with data highly interesting to Mizol. [the limits of human Lotai, or what it takes to breach it, for example] As Tempo has lost her honour in the eyes of her fellow Loroi, she'd need to do something good for the Loroi to regain it.

The Siege of Nezel:
It might be possible to turn the Siege into a disaster for the Umiak now that the Lorois natural strengths in defense are restored without the Umiak knowing. But we're all in agreement that Nezel is a no-step-back kind of battle, right?

The Bedein Encounter:
Alex asking to join a boarding party seems very counterproductive, honestly. Seems to me like he'd be more of a hindrance than anything else. He's got no Sanzai, he isn't schooled in infantry or boarding tactics and is at best a talented beginner handling their equipment. He might be a genius, but they can't condense down years of training into a couple of hours. Plus boarding seems like a guaranteed suicide mission, especially with such a high value target on board.

The Gunships:
Right now they don't sound like a good idea. But that might be because everybody just agreed that they're a good idea instead of arguing against it at first. My main concerns are:
1. Getting close to the Umiak sounds horrible. Why not just cycle the fleets weapons one more time for the killshots?
2. They sound very pricy for what they offer. Especially as they need designated tugs instead of general hangar space like fighters.
3. Why would the Loroi be overly concerned with Tenoin losses? They have literally billions of Tenoin and at least millions of them should reach combat readiness each year. Tinza sector fleet before the latest Umiak assault was something like 13 divisions with ~70 ships each. Let's say each ship has 500 crew on average. That means a very rough estimate of active combat personel in the sector would be at 500.000. SG51 might have atrocious attrition rates, but raider duty is the most dangerous duty in the fleet. Loroi birth rates combined with the Listel caste make this a very minor issue from a non human perspective.

I'm not saying Gunships are inefficient or a bad idea. These are just some of the arguments the Loroi could make against their use. Maybe we should brainstorm similar arguments and this plotlines arc is then to address those concerns?

Male encounter:
Do I smell further fanservice? :P As Nezel is a secondary fleet base far behind the normal front, it's very likely that males were on Nezel. Either as entertainers, musicians, gourmet cooks or therapeuts and medical professionals. Some of them, especially the doctors and surgeons might have elected to stay. They aren't slaves and at one in eight not that rare.
@New Frontiers
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Please do, Razor. I'd like to broaden the scope of New Frontiers myself, but...writing Bastal kissing ass is not my strong suit.
@SH
That's a one man show now, if you don't mind. My plan has evolved far enough that writing prompts would do more harm than good. In retrospect, setting up a story with a focus on intrigue and politics with several authors was doomed from the start anyway.

novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

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Werra wrote:Making up with Tempo/her honour:
When I wrote that I had no idea what price she might ask. An immoral offer is the most obvious price, but since the data Alex wants is Mizol property, he might be asked to pay for it with data highly interesting to Mizol. [the limits of human Lotai, or what it takes to breach it, for example] As Tempo has lost her honour in the eyes of her fellow Loroi, she'd need to do something good for the Loroi to regain it.
It's a bit more complicated than that, sure. Tempo felt she lost her honor because of having failed to serve in her role as liaison both to Alex and Stillstorm, allowing the situation to escalate up to the point of the 'Lotai crisis', and indirectly harming Alex by harming those that are important to him, namely Beryl, in addition to having missed very important details - like the order from 'high up' to ship anything or anyone human to Seren - in the Deinar files. That she became pretty much addicted to Alex and experienced the full range of symptoms of cold withdrawal made it only worse. For Alex, it was Duskcrown who put his head right by pointing out the many ways Tempo could have fucked him over and be completely above board with it, and she didn't - when whistleblowing on the Deinar files in front of Stillstorm, he already had a feeling of guilt, throwing someone he considered a friend under the bus, and I'm sure that feeling would return tenfold.

There are pretty large wounds to heal on both sides.
Werra wrote:The Siege of Nezel:
It might be possible to turn the Siege into a disaster for the Umiak now that the Lorois natural strengths in defense are restored without the Umiak knowing. But we're all in agreement that Nezel is a no-step-back kind of battle, right?
Amen to that. Kikitik-27 may be right that the current operation may be the start of the end of the war. Beyond Nezel there is largely undefended space - if the Umiak break through in force, the Union at large would be doomed, and the war turns from defending the territory to saving the own species from extinction. Still, even Duskcrown is realist enough to be aware that they cannot hold Nezel indefinitely. The hope to hold it as long as it's needed to rally the defenses and to do enough damage to the oncoming forces that their further progress would be even more costly.
Werra wrote:The Bedein Encounter:
Alex asking to join a boarding party seems very counterproductive, honestly. Seems to me like he'd be more of a hindrance than anything else. He's got no Sanzai, he isn't schooled in infantry or boarding tactics and is at best a talented beginner handling their equipment. He might be a genius, but they can't condense down years of training into a couple of hours. Plus boarding seems like a guaranteed suicide mission, especially with such a high value target on board.
For Alex it might be a more personal thing, too - facing the own fears and all that. But there will be heated discussions around that. Of course most, yet not all, Loroi would be appalled at the thought of actively bringing a male into a pitched boarding action. Sure, he was provided with basic training, but I guess it was a silent consensus that it was to be an emergency measure and they agreed on keeping him far away from combat action if they could. Of course a mindset like this wouldn't sit quite well with Alex himself. :)
Werra wrote:Why would the Loroi be overly concerned with Tenoin losses? They have literally billions of Tenoin and at least millions of them should reach combat readiness each year. Tinza sector fleet before the latest Umiak assault was something like 13 divisions with ~70 ships each. Let's say each ship has 500 crew on average. That means a very rough estimate of active combat personel in the sector would be at 500.000. SG51 might have atrocious attrition rates, but raider duty is the most dangerous duty in the fleet. Loroi birth rates combined with the Listel caste make this a very minor issue from a non human perspective.
It isn't just numbers. While the warrior academies might churn out new recruits in sufficient numbers, the Loroi face the same problem the Japanese had in WWII - their cadre of experienced and seasoned officers gets gradually whittled down with every command ship they lose, and is replaced by green youngsters. It is the loss of battle experience which is the most serious issue, especially since the Loroi already start out with a considerable generation gap between the prewar generation and the warborn. And if it devolves into a numbers game, the Loroi would lose, especially with the Umiak being insects by nature.
Werra wrote:Male encounter:
Do I smell further fanservice? :P
Errr.... no :) At least not from me. Perhaps the wording was a bit off since 'Male encounter' already has a specific connotation in Outsiderverse. For clarity, let's relabel it as 'meeting his counterparts'? :)
Werra wrote:@SH
That's a one man show now, if you don't mind. My plan has evolved far enough that writing prompts would do more harm than good. In retrospect, setting up a story with a focus on intrigue and politics with several authors was doomed from the start anyway.
I started to think along the same lines. We could still provide some byplays, though, but for that we'd need a clearer picture at first of what is slated to be important/having lasting effects and thus better keeping our hands off of it.

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Zarya
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Zarya »

Werra wrote:
@New Frontiers
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Please do, Razor. I'd like to broaden the scope of New Frontiers myself, but...writing Bastal kissing ass is not my strong suit.
I'd look forward to..
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..Bastal kicking ass, rather than kissing them, but also feel she'd be a two-dimensional character if she'd only play the meanest Mizol on Deinar without forming somekind of natural relationship with the characters that could be of tremendous value to her. Of course she could play a Frank Underwood, but not without awakening powerful pushback from the diral on which she hasn't got a tight grip yet. To me it's also hard to believe that she insists on keeping her blundering sidekick Nelonial in the game. Potentially this is a soure of conflict too.

Question is, do we need internal conflict between Bastal and the diral, or do we create it elsewhere with other antagonists...

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dragoongfa
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by dragoongfa »

@Werra:
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The Gunships:
Right now they don't sound like a good idea. But that might be because everybody just agreed that they're a good idea instead of arguing against it at first. My main concerns are:
1. Getting close to the Umiak sounds horrible. Why not just cycle the fleets weapons one more time for the killshots?
2. They sound very pricy for what they offer. Especially as they need designated tugs instead of general hangar space like fighters.
3. Why would the Loroi be overly concerned with Tenoin losses? They have literally billions of Tenoin and at least millions of them should reach combat readiness each year. Tinza sector fleet before the latest Umiak assault was something like 13 divisions with ~70 ships each. Let's say each ship has 500 crew on average. That means a very rough estimate of active combat personel in the sector would be at 500.000. SG51 might have atrocious attrition rates, but raider duty is the most dangerous duty in the fleet. Loroi birth rates combined with the Listel caste make this a very minor issue from a non human perspective.
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1: Define close; the gunships are fast, maneuverable and inexpensive weapon platforms. Their main weapons are strong enough to cripple and even destroy larger warships and depending on their torpedo load out they can even threaten major combatants. They don't need to get danger close to the enemy to do their full damage potential while their speed and maneuverability would ensure that they would always have the initiative in engagements.

2: They are definitely more expensive than fighters but they are not half as pricey as full jump capable warships with the same capabilities (due to not having to be jump capable, having less crew and by being far more austere in amenities). As for tugs, the ability to tow something in space isn't expensive; any ship can do it with negligible modifications; drawing the extra mass around would be the biggest concern but since the gunboats are loose when in battle then the only downside is the small amount of extra time it would take to accelerate to cruising speed when in transit between systems.

3: The Japanese and the Germans in WW2, as well as the Soviets in their early war would like to point out that having an overabundance of pilot bodies isn't the same as having capable and reliable pilots. High attrition loses in a military branch ensure a decline in effective capabilities in said branch, the USAAF thrived by rotating their pilots off the front in order to safeguard their hard earned experience so they could train more pilots and afterwards lead them as officers. Due to this policy the US aces have no top scorers in the list about WW2 aces but they dominate the mass of 5 to 20 kill rankings. Keeping the pilots alive and ensuring the survival of their expertise is what gives a widespread quality edge over the opposition.

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Werra
Posts: 840
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:27 pm

Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

dragoongfa wrote:
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1: Define close; the gunships are fast, maneuverable and inexpensive weapon platforms. Their main weapons are strong enough to cripple and even destroy larger warships and depending on their torpedo load out they can even threaten major combatants. They don't need to get danger close to the enemy to do their full damage potential while their speed and maneuverability would ensure that they would always have the initiative in engagements.

2: They are definitely more expensive than fighters but they are not half as pricey as full jump capable warships with the same capabilities (due to not having to be jump capable, having less crew and by being far more austere in amenities). As for tugs, the ability to tow something in space isn't expensive; any ship can do it with negligible modifications; drawing the extra mass around would be the biggest concern but since the gunboats are loose when in battle then the only downside is the small amount of extra time it would take to accelerate to cruising speed when in transit between systems.

3: The Japanese and the Germans in WW2, as well as the Soviets in their early war would like to point out that having an overabundance of pilot bodies isn't the same as having capable and reliable pilots. High attrition loses in a military branch ensure a decline in effective capabilities in said branch, the USAAF thrived by rotating their pilots off the front in order to safeguard their hard earned experience so they could train more pilots and afterwards lead them as officers. Due to this policy the US aces have no top scorers in the list about WW2 aces but they dominate the mass of 5 to 20 kill rankings. Keeping the pilots alive and ensuring the survival of their expertise is what gives a widespread quality edge over the opposition.
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Nr.1
I might have misunderstood then. But if gunships are not getting close, then what difference does it make if say the torpedoes are shot from a normal destroyer? The Loroi as a whole do already have the initiative as their ships are faster. And don't even the fastest ships need to stick in formation with the slowest?

Nr.2
If it were just a tug hardpoint you would be right. But those gunships need to be refueled, rearmed and need ways to get the crew on and off board. That means the crew of a gunship needs amenities on board their carrier ship as well as facilities and supplies for the gunship itself. Isn't a specialised ship or extensive refits a necessity to deploy gunships then? They must be a lot more efficient than fighters which can be stowed into any hangar with little fuss. And a lot more efficient than destroyers, which can do a lot of that as well as jump on their own.

Take this as me being an advocatus diaboli please. These are issues I believe the Loroi would raise as well

Nr.3
See, this is exactly what I mean. The Loroi are faced with a situation similar to what humans faced in our wars. But the Loroi have a different culture, biology and society. So instead of just copying the human solution, the next step for us needs to be to work out how Loroi would deal with it. To give the Loroi their own culture and demonstrate the differences between the species.
For example what do telepathy and the Listel caste change in the equation?
@NF
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I would love to be the one to write the meeting between Coral and Nathan.

silentstormpt
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:04 am

Re: Writing Prompts

Post by silentstormpt »

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Just an example of the type of gunship you looking for imo: http://homeworld.wikia.com/wiki/Pulsar_Gunship
Been following pretty much every fan works you guys posted, thanks for making them guys!

entity2636
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Writing Prompts

Post by entity2636 »

Werra wrote:
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Nr.2
If it were just a tug hardpoint you would be right. But those gunships need to be refueled, rearmed and need ways to get the crew on and off board. That means the crew of a gunship needs amenities on board their carrier ship as well as facilities and supplies for the gunship itself. Isn't a specialised ship or extensive refits a necessity to deploy gunships then? They must be a lot more efficient than fighters which can be stowed into any hangar with little fuss. And a lot more efficient than destroyers, which can do a lot of that as well as jump on their own.
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That's where carriers would come in, which in the current state of the war and loroi doctrine are just sitting somewhere in dry docks and being useless. A Catapult-class carrier has room for 40 starfighters and 4 shuttles (which feels like very little, given the carrier's 500-metre length and 1100-man crew). It should have enough room to store about 8 to 10 of these gunboats and provide jump capability, service facilities and free the cruisers and battleships from having to tow gunboats through hyperspace. Not saying it's an optimal solution, but it could be a temporary short term one, good enough for shakedowns, exercises and an engagement or two for the brass and tacticians to evaluate the concept

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