WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

[Absalom]

I just keep freaking out that Arioch is going to die before Alex gets to Seren!

Arioch, I now have a request: a quick'n'dirty panel of Beryl telling Alex that plans have been changed - instead of taking him to Seren to speak with more military commanders, they're sending him to Barsam to learn the wonders of traditional tribal grass-skirt dances. Just because.

[Arioch]

[CptWinters]

[NOMAD]

@ jerchio: brother your vox is on too loud that's why it's hurts

@ Cacambo: aroids has discussed the possibility of releasing the story IF he could finish the comic is whole ( all 7 chapters iirc) so I wouldn't t worry beside we could always cyberize Aroich if need be

@ at winters: your welcome

@ Arioch: ah the good old design problems, and the Barnum image & face to hand and repeat x10

Good to cya back Arioch

[Smithy]

Just out of curiosity Arioch, as your last WIP update got me thinking (dangerous I know...), what references are you looking to, if at all with your interior shuttle design?

I was thinking maybe stuff like the flexible layout inside the C-130, or are you simply sitting down and just thinking, "If I was designing a shuttle space for max utility, what would I have?" ?

[Arioch]

Just out of curiosity Arioch, as your last WIP update got me thinking (dangerous I know...), what references are you looking to, if at all with your interior shuttle design? I was thinking maybe stuff like the flexible layout inside the C-130, or are you simply sitting down and just thinking, "If I was designing a shuttle space for max utility, what would I have?" ?

I do want the feel of a configurable military cargo transport, and so am looking to the details of modern transports like the C-17 (though not too many... military transports can look really shabby on the inside, with lots of exposed insulation and wiring and tubing), but in terms of layout I'm mostly just trying to come up with something that makes sense. A space transport design has to account for airlocks and microgravity and other issues that a modern aircraft doesn't.

[GeoModder]

Heh, skirt dancing. And Barsams at that.

On the seat placement, it looks to me there's still place for them on the port side of the cabin, since appearantly the airlock won't be used by (at least) departure. Or perhaps four on the centre-line of the cabin wedged between the airlocks.
Not that they're necessary in this case, too few passengers.

[NOMAD]

Hi here my two cent worth , since I work with aircrafts of a similar nature.

To show the multipurpose nature of the highland, you could keep the multifunction "rail" ( ie roller on one side while flip them over to have tie downs) system that is featured in c-17 & other similar vessels. Those system could be broaden to serve in microgravity by having a similar system on the walls and ceiling, to tie down cargo on the ceiling ( hence the ag fields could be turned off to aid in moving the cargo). Now as for the looks the Space Shuttle has good reference for the look,as the payload specilist bay( under pilots) has all the materials behinds various cupboards and other areas ( tie downs,straps etc) to prevent items from floating and maximumize space . The same look could be found in the passenger & cargo areas as the highland is a VIP area, while ; showing the cargo area in use ( assuming, some smaller artifacts from the Bell are being transported as well). The seat could be all foldable into the walls or removed to to be install the cargo bay roof.

The airlock area could be used as a materials moving area / decontamination area for alien encounters . As well a second wide airlock could be placed in fornt of the passenger area, in case their was a breach in one on the air locks. Another solution would be to have the air locks partically telescope out of the hull to make a small airlock space outside the hull. That would save on internal space, and the tradition from 45 to flat could be a gental ramp with a second set of airtight doors.

Not sure helps or makes things worst.

[Arioch]

The seats are configurable, so there's no need to cram them in -- only six passengers on this flight anyway -- but the airlocks would be permanent and not easily configured. So I'm enlarging the side airlocks and having the inner and outer doors offset, so there's room for both steps down from the awkward outer door, and still room to stand inside the vertical inner door. The large double cargo doors don't have an airlock; they're for utility when loading and unloading large objects, and it's hard to imagine having airlocks large enough to handle such things. The causeway or hangar will need to be pressurized to use the cargo doors (or the whole cabin depressurized). Probably have some kind of temporary safety seal on the inside of the cargo doors so the passengers don't get nervous sitting next to them.

So the three airlock doors form a kind of vestibule, and the empty space is filled in with structural forms and "stuff."

[Random Person]

What kind of aesthetic are you going for? Same as the Loroi capital ships or something a bit more cramped? What duration is it meant for (orbital, inter-planetary, or inter-stellar)?

The Space Shuttle may be a good place to look for this sort of stuff, being a real-life craft with a similar role.

If it's meant for long duration missions you may want to turn the area between the airlocks into a crew cabin rather than a vestibule. Another option would be to replace airlock 1 with the crew cabin. The cockpit seems rather large, but it makes some sense considering Loroi preferences.

For space-filling stuff, I would put lockers everywhere.

I feel that it doesn't need as many airlocks as it has, there isn't really any need for symmetry. Deleting one of the side airlocks would free a good bit of space, as well as easing maintenance requirements. The placement of the airlocks towards the middle (still fairly forward, but well behind the nose) means that there isn't going to be a need for an airlock on each side due to "jigsaw puzzle" packing of craft into berths. If you look at planes with side doors, they tend to be only on one side.

Is there a large rear cargo door? The area isn't taken up by engines, there seems to be room for one, if the cargo bay goes that far back. It would allow larger cargo to be carried by the shuttle. You could also put a large cargo door on the top, if a rear door is impossible. That would allow loading and unloading via crane.


Something I noticed while writing this is that the walkway doesn't line up with the airlocks on page 102. It lines up with that dohicky on top which lines up to the space between the doors.

[Arioch]

What kind of aesthetic are you going for? Same as the Loroi capital ships or something a bit more cramped? What duration is it meant for (orbital, inter-planetary, or inter-stellar)?

The size of the shuttle is already established, and there's a limit to how cramped things can get, because like a movie set, I have to fit cameras in there. As it is, some sections will have to built to be removable to better facilitate camera placement.

The Highland doesn't have jump drives, so it is for in-system only missions. A maximum system transit of ~80 LM would take about 48 hours at maximum acceleration, so that would be the typical maximum mission duration. I think that most missions would be less than 24 hours.

I feel that it doesn't need as many airlocks as it has, there isn't really any need for symmetry. Deleting one of the side airlocks would free a good bit of space, as well as easing maintenance requirements. The placement of the airlocks towards the middle (still fairly forward, but well behind the nose) means that there isn't going to be a need for an airlock on each side due to "jigsaw puzzle" packing of craft into berths. If you look at planes with side doors, they tend to be only on one side.

Page 102 establishes that there are doors on both sides of the fuselage, so that ship has already sailed.

The #1 airlock (with a hatch on the top) also serves to separate the cockpit from the cabin, so that the cabin doesn't necessarily need to be pressurized. If you were running a pure-cargo mission then you might want to open the large side doors to load and unload cargo (or open up the cabin to the rear-cargo area which I suspect would typically be unpressurized), and the main airlock allows you to do without depressurizing the cockpit. On some cargo-only missions, the crew would enter and exit from lock #1 and operate entirely within the cockpit area.

Is there a large rear cargo door?

Yes, there is a large rear cargo area with large rear doors and a loading ramp typical of transport aircraft.

Something I noticed while writing this is that the walkway doesn't line up with the airlocks on page 102. It lines up with that dohicky on top which lines up to the space between the doors.

I noticed this last month and considered the idea of making the external doors asymmetrical and only having the airlock on the starboard side, but this doesn't really buy me anything in terms of space with the seating configuration that I want, and it doesn't explain why there would be both large and small doors on the port side. I think the layout I've illustrated above will serve adequately for what I need, and we'll just have to ignore the fact that the placement of the causeway isn't drawn quite right.

[Random Person]

The size of the shuttle is already established, and there's a limit to how cramped things can get, because like a movie set, I have to fit cameras in there. As it is, some sections will have to built to be removable to better facilitate camera placement.

The Highland doesn't have jump drives, so it is for in-system only missions. A maximum system transit of ~80 LM would take about 48 hours at maximum acceleration, so that would be the typical maximum mission duration. I think that most missions would be less than 24 hours.

Okay. I couldn't actually find anything saying whether the shuttle had FTL capability without going on a forum dive. One thing you could add to the ship class stuff in the future is if the class is jump capable. A simple yes or no.

Page 102 establishes that there are doors on both sides of the fuselage, so that ship has already sailed.

Yeah, I'd rather you put effort into making a new page than editing an old page.

The #1 airlock (with a hatch on the top) also serves to separate the cockpit from the cabin, so that the cabin doesn't necessarily need to be pressurized. If you were running a pure-cargo mission then you might want to open the large side doors to load and unload cargo (or open up the cabin to the rear-cargo area which I suspect would typically be unpressurized), and the main airlock allows you to do without depressurizing the cockpit. On some cargo-only missions, the crew would enter and exit from lock #1 and operate entirely within the cockpit area.

Ah, so there are seperate compartments. A fore one and an aft one with a big door/removable wall in between. I was under the impression it was one long room. That setup works, though if I were doing it from scratch I would combine the side and cockpit airlocks.

I noticed this last month and considered the idea of making the external doors asymmetrical and only having the airlock on the starboard side, but this doesn't really buy me anything in terms of space with the seating configuration that I want, and it doesn't explain why there would be both large and small doors on the port side. I think the layout I've illustrated above will serve adequately for what I need, and we'll just have to ignore the fact that the placement of the causeway isn't drawn quite right.

Well, an airtight door isn't nearly as complex as an airlock, so it isn't quite as much of a sacrifice to put them on both sides. The design isn't bad, just a tad inefficient. Considering that this is an expensive shuttle though, maybe this is part of the reason?

[Karst45]

dont worry beryl, i dont get it ether




funny the way she read it like an actress who is handed a new script

[CptWinters]

Should be seeing Talon soon! Looking forward to meeting a new character.

Plus, I think it might be time to adopt a new Loroi. Although, considering what happened last time, with Nova, it might not be such a good idea...

[Count Casimir]

Should be seeing Talon soon! Looking forward to meeting a new character.

Plus, I think it might be time to adopt a new Loroi. Although, considering what happened last time, with Nova, it might not be such a good idea...

I have to worry about the most beautiful captain in the universe now! It's torture, I tell you.

[CptWinters]

You're telling me, man.

It's good you're still around, Cas. Us lifers gotta keep the old ways alive.

[NOMAD]

Hey Casimir, good to see a lot of "oldies" but goodies still around too.

@Arioch: good points, as simpler set up would make sense. and moving cargo in a pressurized cargo bay would be easier for the crew. but couldn't the gravity be turned off to help move large items ?

I'm also looking forward to seeing Talon and Spiral together, they haven't been seen together since page 41 (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider041.html). and talon alone since page 79-80 (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider079.html). IIRC: talon will have some lines during the trip ( pls no "Do you need coffee Captain" remarks).

[Random Person]

I started reading this when it was up to page 43 or 44, all those years ago. Gotta love that update rate, just short of a decade to get through the prologue and chapter 1.

Arioch, can you put it in your will to have your work for this posted since there's a decent chance you'll die before finishing it?

[Karst45]

IIRC: talon will have some lines during the trip ( pls no "Do you need coffee Captain" remarks).

Talon: You seem to be loosing focus Captain, may i offer you a good stimulant to keep you awake?

Alex: hmm sure?

*slap across the face*

[Arioch]

and moving cargo in a pressurized cargo bay would be easier for the crew. but couldn't the gravity be turned off to help move large items ?

I expect that most hangar bays would have the artificial gravity at lower settings to make things easier to move around, but I don't think you'd want to turn it off altogether -- I think zero G makes objects harder rather than easier to move around. The shuttle itself has inertial dampers, but not artificial gravity.