WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Discussion regarding the Outsider webcomic, science, technology and science fiction.

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Wintermute
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Wintermute »

Trantor wrote:
Wintermute wrote:Out of curiosity, The Insider Loroi Ships page describes the Wave Loom device as "problematic." Why is that? I recall this being covered before, but I forget the answer.
Long charging time, heating issues, and leaves the firing ship dead in the water for short period of time after discharging IIRC.
Makes sense. I recalled the heating issues and long charge time. I didn't recall the Wave Loom leaving a ship temporarily dead in the water after firing, though that seems like an acceptable drawback for such a powerful weapon. I suppose when I saw the word "problematic," in my mind I was wondering if that meant Wave Loom weapons were prone to malfunction or some other sort of unpredictable drawback.

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Trantor
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Trantor »

OT Crossover:

I bet the Loroi would be happy to have Orion-7´s "Overkill-Device".*

Just set a point in space and time and ruuuuun.

Disadvantage: Subgluon chainreaction is unpredicable, sometimes only stops when target is consumed and density of matter goes subcritical. Don´t use it on planets...

:mrgreen:


*Youtube-link
sapere aude.

Wintermute
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Wintermute »

Since I'm in the mood to ask clarifying questions about the material posted in Insider, here's another one that probably only Arioch can answer.

On the Human and Umiak ships page, there is shared terminology used to describe each side's ship's armor rating (eg: both the America Class CA and the Type-T BB share the armor rating "Heavy"). Does this mean that the armor on the America CA is roughly equivalent to the Type-T BB? Or is it that the America CA only has heavy armor by human tech-level standards, and is actually woefully outclassed by the armor on the Type-T BB? Obviously any way you slice it the Type-T still has a massive defensive advantage over the America due to screens, but this had me curious.
SpoilerShow
And even if the answer is the America has similar armor rating to some of the Umiak ships, please nobody use that as an excuse to tirade into arguing that OMG THE CURRENT HUMEN SHIPS MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMPETE MILITARILY IN X Y OR Z IMPLAUSIBLE SCENARIO. Please.
Additionally, how would the designations "Heavy," "Medium," and "Light" translate roughly into numerical ratings, like used on the Loroi ships page?

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Mjolnir
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Mjolnir »

icekatze wrote:If I were to guess, I would think the wave motion gun creates plasma focus in the form of a huge and prolonged sine wave, with a back and fourth sweeping motion that allows it to hit more than one thing.
I always pictured it as a multiply focused interwoven web of plasma, something like a caustics under rippling water with hot-spots on multiple targets. Practical issues of producing the art mean it's probably something simpler, though.

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Arioch
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Arioch »

Wintermute wrote:Out of curiosity, The Insider Loroi Ships page describes the Wave Loom device as "problematic." Why is that? I recall this being covered before, but I forget the answer.
The rate of fire is low, the entire ship must be pointed at the target, and can't do much else during the charging period when power is being diverted to the wave-loom. It's an expensive weapon, and there's a tradeoff with defensive capability -- the accelerators in the prongs crowd out extra defensive screen generators. And the high power requirements put some ships (especially older ones like Tempest) at risk of power system overloads or heat system saturation when firing the weapon repeatedly.
Trantor wrote:IF the Loroi use their wave-loom on this one, i´m curious about the tactics. Considering the drawbacks of this technology, i´m pretty sure they can´t sit and wait for it getting charged.
The wave-loom is a high-powered weapon with moderate range and a certain degree of area-effect. The precise details of how the weapon works are still being worked out (which should tell you that its use in the comic is not imminent) but something exotic along the general lines of the Orion-7 weapon you mentioned or the MD Device from Ender's Game is likely. It's something that is best used against hard targets like citadels, surface installations or pesky ultraheavies, or in an unusual situation in which the enemy is forced into very tight formation (but yet are still a safe distance from your own forces). And preferably used in a massed fleet battle where there are ample friendly forces to protect the firing ship while it is vulnerable.

I have on my list to add an Insider page on the various weapons systems, and that's most likely when those details will be worked out.
Wintermute wrote:On the Human and Umiak ships page, there is shared terminology used to describe each side's ship's armor rating (eg: both the America Class CA and the Type-T BB share the armor rating "Heavy"). -- Additionally, how would the designations "Heavy," "Medium," and "Light" translate roughly into numerical ratings, like used on the Loroi ships page?
Thanks for pointing that out, as it needs to be fixed. Those two pages were created at different times, so the terms are local to each page; the Umiak armor is certainly more effective per cm thickness than the Terran armor. Though I will say that the Terran cruisers are very thickly armored, since that's their only form of protection (whereas for the main combatants, even the rugged Umiak, armor is a secondary form of protection). But you're right that it should be converted to an equivalent numeric value.

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by NOMAD »

SO if the recent update is A TTK- supper heavy, does this mean the Umiak are charging in for the kill and hoping to break the Loroi defensive lines ?
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Martenzo
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Martenzo »

Typo in your post, Nomad. It's TT, not TTK. TT is the Superheavy, TTK is the Ultraheavy. So there is not such thing as a TTK-Superheavy

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by NOMAD »

Martenzo wrote:Typo in your post, Nomad. It's TT, not TTK. TT is the Superheavy, TTK is the Ultraheavy. So there is not such thing as a TTK-Superheavy
Ops, :oops: I get so mixed up of the Loroi system of Classification, what ever happen to good old "naming" enemy ships that human used ?

However, another ops is that the updated umiak class listing says the following
Ships (TT sup- heavy BB) in this size class began to appear around 2140 during the battles of the Golim-Tinza line, apparently in an attempt to counter the heavy firepower of the Loroi command ships being used to great effect by Admiral Sunfall and others during this period. It was generally assumed by the Loroi at the time that these over-sized super heavies were being used as flagships for Umiak commanders, but it is now believed that this was probably incorrect. Experience has since demonstrated that most Umiak commanders prefer less conspicuous, smaller cruisers as flag vessels (given Loroi superiority in long-range heavy weaponry). Older vessels in this size class are occasionally seen leading assault divisions, but it is believed that newly produced examples are restricted to duty with the bivouac divisions.
note the Bold section, he he D'OH :roll: but does these mean its the main attack wave ( most probable) or is this new wave simply the umiak heavier composition strike force that " attack regularly and efficiently" as tempo Stated
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Karst45 »

Arioch wrote: Thanks for pointing that out, as it needs to be fixed. Those two pages were created at different times, so the terms are local to each page; the Umiak armor is certainly more effective per cm thickness than the Terran armor. Though I will say that the Terran cruisers are very thickly armored, since that's their only form of protection (whereas for the main combatants, even the rugged Umiak, armor is a secondary form of protection). But you're right that it should be converted to an equivalent numeric value.
OMG THE CURRENT HUMEN SHIPS MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMPETE MILITARILY IN X Y OR Z IMPLAUSIBLE SCENARIO!!!!1!one!

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Arioch
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Arioch »

Karst45 wrote: OMG THE CURRENT HUMEN SHIPS MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMPETE MILITARILY IN X Y OR Z IMPLAUSIBLE SCENARIO!!!!1!one!
If only the enemy could be lured into the Mutara nebula, where screens are useless and the Terran cruisers can blast away with their mass drivers at point-blank range. :D

Wintermute
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Wintermute »

Karst45 wrote:OMG THE CURRENT HUMEN SHIPS MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMPETE MILITARILY IN X Y OR Z IMPLAUSIBLE SCENARIO!!!!1!one!
lol

If only the enemy could be lured into the Mutara nebula, where screens are useless and the Terran cruisers can blast away with their mass drivers at point-blank range. :D
We'll make it a non-canon Outsider side-story!

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Tash »

Arioch wrote:If only the enemy could be lured into the Mutara nebula, where screens are useless and the Terran cruisers can blast away with their mass drivers at point-blank range. :D
I laugh at the superior industry. ;)

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by fredgiblet »

Karst45 wrote:OMG THE CURRENT HUMEN SHIPS MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMPETE MILITARILY IN X Y OR Z IMPLAUSIBLE SCENARIO!!!!1!one!
...Well...the Umiak Ultra-heavy DOES have really good shields...and mass drivers aren't really affected by shields...

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Riess
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Riess »

Sweet. Now where are we going to get the Mutara nebula at this hour?
Also if computer gaming has taught me anything, it's that the human navy needs to stock up on salvage tugs to compete. Lots of salvage tugs.
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Trantor
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Trantor »

fredgiblet wrote:...Well...the Umiak Ultra-heavy DOES have really good shields...and mass drivers aren't really affected by shields...
Aim at the engines...
Riess wrote:Sweet. Now where are we going to get the Mutara nebula at this hour?
Let´s teleport to Ragnar Anchorage.
:mrgreen:
Also if computer gaming has taught me anything, it's that the human navy needs to stock up on salvage tugs to compete. Lots of salvage tugs.
YAY! Space-going Far Samsons* FTW!


*Bollard Pull world champion
sapere aude.

Tash
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Tash »

Riess wrote:Sweet. Now where are we going to get the Mutara nebula at this hour?
Also if computer gaming has taught me anything, it's that the human navy needs to stock up on salvage tugs to compete. Lots of salvage tugs.
Come now, surely this is a better investment?

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Karst45 »

Tash wrote:
Riess wrote:Sweet. Now where are we going to get the Mutara nebula at this hour?
Also if computer gaming has taught me anything, it's that the human navy needs to stock up on salvage tugs to compete. Lots of salvage tugs.
Come now, surely this is a better investment?

I take your this and I raise it by that

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Tash »

Karst45 wrote: I take your this and I raise it by that
Well played, sir.

Wintermute
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Wintermute »

No, I'm pretty sure the the Salvage Tugs are still the best deal....

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Karst45 »

Wintermute wrote:No, I'm pretty sure the the Salvage Tugs are still the best deal....
depend if you played the patch version or not.


at some point you could capture over you ship capacity and what more easy to capture than an ion frigate baited by fighter (yes the "ion sphere part")

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