Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by GeoModder »

Loroi males must have a busy time at the frontline systems. Military casualty rates are way up, and the surviving combat veterans after each in-the-field deployment likely are eligible to quality time with a male.

Which makes me wonder: Arioch, does a "host" of males follow the fleet/army deployments in the Seren, Tinza, -and Maiad sectors? Like medieval/renaissance armies on Earth had a whole camp of women (and their children) at their trail?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

SVlad wrote:And what is the average number of children Loroi have? With their women ration they need only 1-2 childes per woman to maintain population. And with 400 years lifespan it means approximately one encounter in 300 hundred years. For males situation would be just a bit better - one encounter in 30 years. And, because of the uneven distribution of males, most males wouldn't have sex for decades.
Even if each Loroi woman would have 10 childes per life, numbers wouldn't be much better. One encounter per year for popular males, and one in decade for other.
An average number wouldn't be very descriptive, because the number varies by individual greatly according to gender, class, circumstance, lifespan, and era. A Loroi civilian female might have zero offspring, and a high-ranking Loroi male might have many thousands.

Female Loroi fertility declines with age. A week-long series of mating encounters might result in pregnancy rates as high as 80% for very young Loroi females in their reproductive prime, but for a female Loroi over 50 (who constitute the majority of the population with sufficient status to earn recurring time with a male), fertility rates drop to something closer to recognizable human levels. Male fertility also diminishes, though to a lesser degree, as they age.

Most female Loroi -- even in peacetime -- won't live past age 150 or 200, and those that die before then are likely to die very young.

Even in times of peace, the Loroi population is always growing; there is usually need for growth somewhere, and so even males in established areas that have capped growth will be matched with females brought in from frontier areas. And for the Loroi, times of true peace are few and far between.

Even though the population can theoretically be held static through this access control system, Loroi proclivity and longevity still exert enormous pressure for growth. In times when population growth was curtailed, the males were still kept very busy, but by an ever smaller percentage of the female population -- mostly older, high-ranking warrior females. In extreme cases, the top-ranking females might have a male exclusively assigned to her, who she visited every day, and she might even go so far as to use contraception. The more common this became, the more imminent the end of such restrictions would become, as more and more of the high-ranking females would inevitably become hedonistic and/or attached to their males, their subordinates and opponents (who wanted reproductive rights for themselves) would resent this and recognize it as a weakness, and a conflict of Homeric proportions would ensue. However, such a hypothetical situation of zero population growth has not been widely in effect for more than a thousand years; since then the Loroi have always been at war or actively expanding, or both.
GeoModder wrote:Loroi males must have a busy time at the frontline systems. Military casualty rates are way up, and the surviving combat veterans after each in-the-field deployment likely are eligible to quality time with a male.

Which makes me wonder: Arioch, does a "host" of males follow the fleet/army deployments in the Seren, Tinza, -and Maiad sectors? Like medieval/renaissance armies on Earth had a whole camp of women (and their children) at their trail?
The females are usually brought to the males, rather than the other way around, as part of leave.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by majorminor »

Since the insider says potentially 400 years, is that a lifespan that only the select few have a shot at?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

majorminor wrote:Since the insider says potentially 400 years, is that a lifespan that only the select few have a shot at?
Yes. Humans today can potentially live 100 years or more, but most don't live past age 50. Longevity issues aside, the longer you are alive, the greater the probability of death due to accident or violence.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by dragoongfa »

Arioch wrote:
majorminor wrote:Since the insider says potentially 400 years, is that a lifespan that only the select few have a shot at?
Yes. Humans today can potentially live 100 years or more, but most don't live past age 50. Longevity issues aside, the longer you are alive, the greater the probability of death due to accident or violence.
Considering the adventurous nature of a warrior society, how many deaths in peaceful periods can be attributed to either cause?

Note: I would consider someone pissing off a Teidar to be something akin to suicide.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by majorminor »

Overall life expectancy has climbed up to the low 70s from UN reports posted in 2012. Just a heads up not a point of argument.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by SVlad »

So, what is normal safe period between mating encounters for the males of loroi species?

Also, what about loroi sexual revolution? I understand how they get into such a dystopian society, but after invention of contraceptives they wouldn't have to control every and all dating and could limit only childbirths.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Grayhome »

So should we sue the Soia for stealing our... wow what would we even call it. Our flesh? Our form? Our design?

I think we could come up with a legal victory, and confiscate all Loroi territory, property and personnel. After the legal success I'm certain the Loroi would be happy to oblige and surrender unconditionally. :D

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Krulle wrote:How do the Loroi with their "no-touching" society do with the simply things of pedicure, manicure, hairstylist, and similar, when touching is a taboo due to the telepathic contact initiated by it?
I'm pretty sure that the Loroi enjoy being pampered for a well-textured skin, nice nails, ...; but that does not really work when touching is to be avoided.
As others have mentioned, the Loroi are pragmatic and will break the "taboo" when necessary. Using gloves to prevent skin to skin contact can also help reduce the telepathic intimacy of physical touching.

The Loroi do enjoy primping and grooming, but this is a social function that is usually done with friends, rather than a service performed by a professional, so the intimacy of touching is considered an enhancement to the experience rather than a problem.
majorminor wrote:Overall life expectancy has climbed up to the low 70s from UN reports posted in 2012. Just a heads up not a point of argument.
Thanks for the correction.
dragoongfa wrote:Considering the adventurous nature of a warrior society, how many deaths in peaceful periods can be attributed to either cause? Note: I would consider someone pissing off a Teidar to be something akin to suicide.
In a warrior society, accidental death often involves violence. Dueling is illegal, but fights do happen. The number of fatalities from such fights is small, and most Teidar have better control of their abilities than Fireblade does, but it does go without saying that one would be sensible to think twice before starting a brawl when there are Teidar on the other side.

Casualties from training will be the more significant number, especially in peacetime when the Loroi train especially hard (because they have nothing else to do). In peacetime when there are surplus personnel, multiple crews will compete for the right to deploy on each ship, and the competition can get fierce. But in general, ambitious young people with access to dangerous toys and a lot of time on their hands is an inevitable recipe for the odd fatality.
SVlad wrote:So, what is normal safe period between mating encounters for the males of loroi species?
Most Loroi males have some kind of sexual contact almost every day. How long they can go without sex before going bonkers depends on the individual, because it's largely a psychological issue. The common Loroi belief that males will die without sex is actually a myth.
SVlad wrote:Also, what about loroi sexual revolution? I understand how they get into such a dystopian society, but after invention of contraceptives they wouldn't have to control every and all dating and could limit only childbirths.
A human society in which sex was denied would indeed be dystopian, but it's important to remember that humans are very unusual even among mammals in their constant sexual activity and emotional need for same. Most social mammals (primates included) only breed once a year, and restrictions on who can breed are the norm rather than the exception. Most herd mammals have harems in which males have to compete for females, and most pack animals have alpha systems in which only a few or even one couple is allowed to breed. Some (such as naked mole rats) have insect-like castes with queens, drones, and workers. Humans are unusual in that they both pair-bond and have sex throughout the year, and we use sex to reinforce the pair bond and to provide our need for emotional intimacy. Loroi do not pair-bond and have telepathic methods of satisfying their need for intimacy, so although Loroi females enjoy the act of sex, they do not have an emotional need for it the way we do.

Contraceptives don't solve the problem of there not being enough males to go around, and they don't really solve the problem of population control. Since the desire of Loroi females is to have children (rather than just to have sex for its own sake), it's not clear that most Loroi would use contraceptives if given the option. But more importantly, the control of access to males is a key element of the stratification of Loroi society, which sustains the warrior hierarchy and provides a control for the fitness of offspring (as the harem and alpha systems do). It would require a fundamental shift in Loroi society for them to give up such a control.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Sweforce »

Arioch wrote:Contraceptives don't solve the problem of there not being enough males to go around, and they don't really solve the problem of population control. Since the desire of Loroi females is to have children (rather than just to have sex for its own sake), it's not clear that most Loroi would use contraceptives if given the option. But more importantly, the control of access to males is a key element of the stratification of Loroi society, which sustains the warrior hierarchy and provides a control for the fitness of offspring (as the harem and alpha systems do). It would require a fundamental shift in Loroi society for them to give up such a control.
I note how the massive defeat in WWII shifted Japanese culture and how it totally broke the back of their warrior culture. The war against the Umiak have been going on for 25 years now. Maybe not their longest war but it is a massive war of attrition consuming huge amount of resources and killing of veterans. I note that Stillstorm, as a warrior is one of few survivors from her generation. If the Umiak really where to make a breakthrough and show the warrior casts failure to prevent massive loss of territory something could happen.

This leads to, how common is it for individual loroi to reject the cast system entirely and take of to live among the allied races and form an alternate culture among them? I imagine that most that do this would be disgruntled civilians and indeed, if regular contact with humanity are opened up, some may even head over here for this reason. If so, how tolerated are these people? Are the allies pressured to keep them down? Are there any males among them? Would they arrest a pregnant loroi bearing a male fetus if she was about to defect in order to prevent the creation of an self sustaining alternate loroi culture?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by dragoongfa »

Remember that the Loroi warrior castes comprise at least 50% of the population while they control every part of their society. For all intents and purposes they shouldn't be considered an aspect of Loroi society, they are Loroi society.

In contrast the Japanese militarists and the Japanese militarist complex were a by product of the quite dramatic ascent of Japanese society from a medieval feudal society to a full blown industrial world power in less than 100 years. If one examines Japanese internal struggles from the yearly 20th century until the end of WW1 they will see plenty of pluralism and sound foundations for a proper democratic future. The problem was that the militarists actually got shit done, with victories at the Sino-Japanese war of 1894 and at the Russian-Japanese 1904 and the annexation of Korea. Japan was still a young industrialist state at the time and this allowed the militarist to seize political power by using the military's victories abroad.

What happened between the end of WW1 and the beginning of WW2 was the establishment of militarism as the de-facto deciding party in regards to domestic and foreign policies, a small clique that fully controlled all aspects of Japanese life not through popular support (although it had that at times) but through brute force methods and using the natural disposition of the Japanese psyche to not question and combat higher authority.

In order for the Loroi to suffer a social shift that will force them to abandon their militarist lifestyle, they don't need to just suffer a defeat. Defeat is part of war and they know it, they need to see their entire social construct collapse around them in a way that they cannot call it anything but inevitable.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Sweforce »

dragoongfa wrote:In order for the Loroi to suffer a social shift that will force them to abandon their militarist lifestyle, they don't need to just suffer a defeat. Defeat is part of war and they know it, they need to see their entire social construct collapse around them in a way that they cannot call it anything but inevitable.
I agree there but stress to their society may make individuals prone to leave for greener pastures. Razor One actually wrote a small story of a "deviant" loroi in my now mostly forgotten "in loroi town" thread. I would link to it if I could but I have no idea how to link to a specific post in a thread so here is a link to the tread itself.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... f=4&t=1041

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by dragoongfa »

Sweforce wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:In order for the Loroi to suffer a social shift that will force them to abandon their militarist lifestyle, they don't need to just suffer a defeat. Defeat is part of war and they know it, they need to see their entire social construct collapse around them in a way that they cannot call it anything but inevitable.
I agree there but stress to their society may make individuals prone to leave for greener pastures. Razor One actually wrote a small story of a "deviant" loroi in my now mostly forgotten "in loroi town" thread. I would link to it if I could but I have no idea how to link to a specific post in a thread so here is a link to the tread itself.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... f=4&t=1041
Yes, I remember reading it.

Migration happens for two reasons, one is for a better economic future and the other its as you say to avoid some societal issues. However in the second case its the ones who cannot conform who leave first and in greater numbers so that means that the Loroi society in general would be strengthened if the deviants who had issues with it left.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Sweforce »

dragoongfa wrote:
Sweforce wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:In order for the Loroi to suffer a social shift that will force them to abandon their militarist lifestyle, they don't need to just suffer a defeat. Defeat is part of war and they know it, they need to see their entire social construct collapse around them in a way that they cannot call it anything but inevitable.
I agree there but stress to their society may make individuals prone to leave for greener pastures. Razor One actually wrote a small story of a "deviant" loroi in my now mostly forgotten "in loroi town" thread. I would link to it if I could but I have no idea how to link to a specific post in a thread so here is a link to the tread itself.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... f=4&t=1041
Yes, I remember reading it.

Migration happens for two reasons, one is for a better economic future and the other its as you say to avoid some societal issues. However in the second case its the ones who cannot conform who leave first and in greater numbers so that means that the Loroi society in general would be strengthened if the deviants who had issues with it left.
Indeed and as an alternative to harsh actions against "deviants", society could even see it in a positive light if they leave. That is until to many leave and you get a brain drain problem. People building a viable alternative in a stable form may be seen as a threat and as such, they may prevent males from leaving. Interesting thou, if a stable alternate culture are built up somewhere and the main loroi culture end up exterminated by the umiak, then the "deviants" would set new norm. Waves of refugees from the old system could then lead to conflicts. An interesting aspect of this would be if the warrior castes where exterminated and only the civilians survived, what would happen then? Would they rebuild the warrior casts or choose an new path entirely?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by dragoongfa »

I think that the Loroi civilian would choose to reinstate the warrior castes or some form of them if a glaringly obvious better alternative wasn't there for them. Remember that the warrior castes built an Empire in which the Loroi reign supreme and that includes the civilians. They may be second rate but they are still slightly above the non Loroi Union members. See it as a form of chauvinism and species supremacism.Much like Japan tried to reinstate samurai values on its military even after they hunted down every last samurai.

On the other hand, if the Umiak win I doubt that any Loroi would be allowed to remain free. At best they would become Mannadi v2.0 with their populations limited on a handful of planets and with far stricter population controls. And that's only if the Umiak will have a use for them.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Krulle »

Sweforce wrote: I would link to it if I could but I have no idea how to link to a specific post in a thread so here is a link to the tread itself.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... f=4&t=1041
Next to the post title is a small circle with a triangle in it (pointing to the right, right of the poster's name). That links to the post directly.

Your post is http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 458#p20458, now I'll search your thread for the one you want...

Edit: did you want this one? http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 646#p18646
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Sweforce »

Krulle wrote:
Sweforce wrote: I would link to it if I could but I have no idea how to link to a specific post in a thread so here is a link to the tread itself.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... f=4&t=1041
Next to the post title is a small circle with a triangle in it (pointing to the right, right of the poster's name). That links to the post directly.

Your post is http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 458#p20458, now I'll search your thread for the one you want...

Edit: did you want this one? http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 646#p18646
Like this then http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 466#p20466

Thanks. This is useful since I have been having this problem on other forums as well.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Sweforce wrote:This leads to, how common is it for individual loroi to reject the cast system entirely and take of to live among the allied races and form an alternate culture among them? I imagine that most that do this would be disgruntled civilians and indeed, if regular contact with humanity are opened up, some may even head over here for this reason. If so, how tolerated are these people? Are the allies pressured to keep them down? Are there any males among them? Would they arrest a pregnant loroi bearing a male fetus if she was about to defect in order to prevent the creation of an self sustaining alternate loroi culture?
A number of Loroi live abroad in alien societies; most of these are civilian females engaged in foreign business. Some maintain Loroi traditions, while some have become enamored of the local alien cultures, but they are not "deviants." The kind of deviation I was referring to is criminality, insanity, addiction, and so on; the inability to live peacefully and constructively with others. Alien societies are no more friendly or welcoming to destructive individuals than the Loroi are, and would have no reason to invite or permit the immigration of such people. But this is entirely a matter for the alien governments; the Loroi government has no reason to restrict emigration or care how expatriate Loroi live. The Loroi government doesn't care if a group of expats tries to set up their own society in a foreign nation, but the government of the host nation might have something to say about it.

Your remark about "keep them down" implies that the Loroi deliberately and systematically oppress their own people, and I don't think that's the case. Loroi civilians are restricted from military and government service, but they can engage in entrepreneurial pursuits, start businesses and potentially become very wealthy, which Loroi warriors are not allowed to do. A Loroi civilian living in an alien society would have more or less the same rights as one living in Loroi society; as an alien she still would not be allowed to participate in government, and she still wouldn't have reproductive freedom (as there would be even fewer males to breed with).

Loroi males are legally wards of the state, so the government could prevent their emigration if it had reason to. Males are not encouraged to travel abroad, and rarely have independent means of travel, so it would be very unusual for a male to have the opportunity or desire to emigrate. I'm sure there must be a few that have done so, but the number must be very small. In a case where a Loroi female absconded with a male to a foreign nation, the Loroi government would probably ask to have him back. The case of a pregnant Loroi carrying a male child is an interesting dilemma; whether the government would attempt to stop her or later ask to have the boy back would depend on the situation and why the female was leaving. As to the notion of creating an alternate Loroi culture, it would take more than one or two males to create a reproductively viable population, and again I think the government of the host nation might have concerns about a group of Loroi immigrants trying to create their own utopia within its own borders.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by RedDwarfIV »

Why, at their tech level, do Loroi not clone/tube-grow a load of males to even it out?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

RedDwarfIV wrote:Why, at their tech level, do Loroi not clone/tube-grow a load of males to even it out?
Vat-growing a person isn't possible at this tech level. They could tinker with the conception process to make more embryos male, but why would they want to do that? There are enough males to keep all of the females constantly pregnant (if that was what they wanted), and if there weren't they could just use artificial insemination. The Loroi don't have a problem with how their system works. They consider the small number of males to be a good thing, since they're essentially economic dead weight.

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