What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

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ShadowDragon8685
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

harlequin2262 wrote:I tend to be a little wary of the
Alien: What is this strange human custom called <reallybasicthing>
Human: Well, let me tell you about it in a way that is really aimed towards provoking thought in the human audience.

But you've done it elegantly, Dragon. You've picked your examples well.
Thank you, thank you. I'm not really aiming anything towards provoking thoughts in the human audience, I'm anticipating how Loroi would react.
One thing that did throw me for a second. Was Jardin speaking the poem in trade? Did that explanation exist without the Loroi knowing the actual poem, as it was spoken in english?
Jardin was speaking in English when he quoted High Flight. Beryl and Jardin's circle of friends speak English. The rest of the crew may have been more confused by it; Beryl and Jardin's pals weren't confused so much as Beryl was inquisitive.

JQBogus
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by JQBogus »

Could be that someone (Beryl) translated and communicated via Sanzai to the non-English speaking Loroi present.

Krulle
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Krulle »

Seeing that the Loroi can learn using telepathic transfer, I assume that at least first bridge shift knows (basic) English...

Heh, punishment through neglecting to tell her an exercise is coming up...
How devious of Alexander...
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ShadowDragon8685
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

JQBogus wrote:Could be that someone (Beryl) translated and communicated via Sanzai to the non-English speaking Loroi present.
Poetry doesn't usually translate well at all, I thought.
Krulle wrote:Seeing that the Loroi can learn using telepathic transfer, I assume that at least first bridge shift knows (basic) English...
Hrm, that could well be. Either way, though, they'd be looking at him funny for speaking non-literal nonsense.
Heh, punishment through neglecting to tell her an exercise is coming up...
How devious of Alexander...
Yep.

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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by harlequin2262 »

If nothing else, the general transliteration can be applied, even if the meter and rhyme is wasted. If they heard him speak it though, at least a measure of it could be retained.
I imagine poetry to be something the Loroi struggle with as well, being as rooted as it is with creative mistruths.
I didn't realise that the primary harem spoke English, though, although after the period of the time spent together, it's a logical step, particularly for Beryl and Tempo.
"I'm not really aiming anything towards provoking thoughts in the human audience, I'm anticipating how Loroi would react."
Oh, of course. But the relative nativity of the Loroi does lend itself to an examination of the fundamentals of a given poem/practise. Forces the reader and writer to examine that basics of their society. Smooshing THAT together with the already existing culture clash is very fun to watch.

ShadowDragon8685
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

harlequin2262 wrote:If nothing else, the general transliteration can be applied, even if the meter and rhyme is wasted. If they heard him speak it though, at least a measure of it could be retained.
I imagine poetry to be something the Loroi struggle with as well, being as rooted as it is with creative mistruths.
I didn't realise that the primary harem spoke English, though, although after the period of the time spent together, it's a logical step, particularly for Beryl and Tempo.
I try not to think of them as a harem, because from their point of view, it's five guys and a girl. :P
Beryl was already eager to be learning English in the comic, because she is such an adorable xenophile guys. Tempo would want to learn it as part of her job. The rest would pick it up after some instance came up in which the group needed to communicate privately with one another and they couldn't because someone has all the telepathic receptivity of a rock, and it would be easier for Tempo and Beryl to teach the others English than for all of them to learn a third language.

Also, so Alex couldn't curse them out whilst smiling politely.
"I'm not really aiming anything towards provoking thoughts in the human audience, I'm anticipating how Loroi would react."
Oh, of course. But the relative nativity of the Loroi does lend itself to an examination of the fundamentals of a given poem/practise. Forces the reader and writer to examine that basics of their society. Smooshing THAT together with the already existing culture clash is very fun to watch.
It does, but sometimes such an examination can just fall flat, as happened on the bridge. Alex isn't a scholar of poetry, after all, and might have had an easier time just relaying it as a quiet beginning-of-a-space-voyage ritual, something the Loroi can almost certainly understand, and providing full context to Beryl, Tempo, and maybe Fireblade later.

Also, I was rapidly running towards the nebulous "when Notepad++ says the wordcount is 55,000, stop writing" limit. Kind of a shame, really, I had wanted to have Alex show that picture of a Supermarine Spitfire to Talon, and have her first express disbelief that it was capable of flight, and then incredulity that Alexander's people were flying those things as top-of-the-line technology 225 years ago, literally within a Loroi lifetime.

So far, the shoe hasn't dropped. Nobody with the intelligence and context to understand how fast human technology has advanced has seen any of the hints dropped about human tech from earlier. When it does, well...

Loremark lived a long life by Loroi standards in the absence of violent death. She was 459 years old. Round that to 460 and subtract it from where humanity is as of Outsider, and you're in the Golden Age of Sail, and Edward Teach is the most fearsome devil sailing the West Indies, (Edward Kenway excepted). Meanwhile, it took the Loroi 525 years to go from the industrial revolution to Sputnik.

The Loroi and Umiak have a hell of a headstart, but humanity are catching up by virtue of riding the technological equivalent of a rocket-powered death-dragster.

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Durabys
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Durabys »

Interesting thing I looked up when the Loroi commented how Mass Drivers can hurt as much as as Loroi/Umiak AM/M torpedoes, if you get them onto the target, that is. I just went and calculated some things like Mas Driver firepower. Converted into TNT..

..well: At 16,000,000,000,000 Joules from 400 km/s and 200 kg KKV..

..3,824 kilotons..aka 3.824 Mt of TNT. :shock:

Outsider Humanity starships outclass and outgun the firepower of BattleTech Inner Sphere WarShips by three orders of magnitude. Heavy Naval Capital Autocannon shells are canonically rated at under 10 kilotons of TNT. Holy Mother of God.. :o

Now I think of a FanFic Idea where Outsider Humanity Earth and its Colonies are ISOT dropped into 3020's AD BT-verse. 'Hilarity Ensues' cannot even describe the following clusterfuck. :lol:


EDIT: Please ignore the above post. Because Durabys clearly fails at basic math and SI Unit knowledge forever. :oops: *headdesk*
Last edited by Durabys on Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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ShadowDragon8685
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Durabys wrote:Interesting thing I looked up when the Loroi commented how Mass Drivers can hurt as much as as Loroi/Umiak AM/M torpedoes, if you get them onto the target. I just went and calculated some things like Mas Driver firepower. Converted into TNT..

..well: At 16,000,000,000,000 Joules, 400 km/s and 200 kg KKV..

..3,824 Kt..aka 3.8 Mt. :shock:

Outsider Humanity starships outclass and outgun the firepower of BattleTech Inner Sphere WarShips by three orders of magnitude. Heavy Naval Capital Autocannon shells are rated at under 10 kilotons of TNT. Holy Mother of God.. :o

Now I think of a FanFic Idea where Outsider Humanity Earth and its Colonies are ISOT dropped into 3020's AD BT-verse. 'Hilarity Ensues' cannot even describe the following clusterfuck. :lol:
Yep. And screens do all of jack shit to protect against mass drivers. Umiak inertial dampeners do... But probably not nearly enough against the heavier rounds. In a fight at docking range, pretty much nothing outguns an America-class Heavy Cruiser. Equals, maybe, but not outguns.

As Alex said: Now if only humanity could invent some kind of pinpoint-accurate jump drive that would let them warp into docking range, they'd be cooking with antimatter.

raistlin34
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by raistlin34 »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Durabys wrote:Interesting thing I looked up when the Loroi commented how Mass Drivers can hurt as much as as Loroi/Umiak AM/M torpedoes, if you get them onto the target. I just went and calculated some things like Mas Driver firepower. Converted into TNT..

..well: At 16,000,000,000,000 Joules, 400 km/s and 200 kg KKV..

..3,824 Kt..aka 3.8 Mt. :shock:

Outsider Humanity starships outclass and outgun the firepower of BattleTech Inner Sphere WarShips by three orders of magnitude. Heavy Naval Capital Autocannon shells are rated at under 10 kilotons of TNT. Holy Mother of God.. :o

Now I think of a FanFic Idea where Outsider Humanity Earth and its Colonies are ISOT dropped into 3020's AD BT-verse. 'Hilarity Ensues' cannot even describe the following clusterfuck. :lol:

As Alex said: Now if only humanity could invent some kind of pinpoint-accurate jump drive that would let them warp into docking range, they'd be cooking with antimatter.
Is foreshadowing what I´m reading? :o :D

ShadowDragon8685
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

raistlin34 wrote:Is foreshadowing what I´m reading? :o :D
If you had a pinpoint-accurate jump drive that could warp into docking range, you'd have a pinpoint-accurate jump drive that could warp an antimatter-filled torpedo into the hull. At that point, you've jumped straight to Schlockian Terrapedos, and the war is over; the Umiak have lost, and the Loroi are experiencing brown trousers time, now that it is suddenly of absolutely critical importance they make friends with the pink apes.

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Durabys
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Durabys »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
raistlin34 wrote:Is foreshadowing what I´m reading? :o :D
If you had a pinpoint-accurate jump drive that could warp into docking range, you'd have a pinpoint-accurate jump drive that could warp an antimatter-filled torpedo into the hull. At that point, you've jumped straight to Schlockian Terrapedos, and the war is over; the Umiak have lost, and the Loroi are experiencing brown trousers time, now that it is suddenly of absolutely critical importance they make friends with the pink apes.
Terrapedos, how I love thee!
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Durabys
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Durabys »

Oh god. I am an idiot. I fail at mathematics for ever. Please. Kill me. The result was 3,469 tonnes. Not kilotons. The firepower is well in range of Real Sci-Fi weaponry. Oh god. This feels like the famed 'Telepanty' Debacle all over again.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. - If you wish for peace, prepare for war.

ShadowDragon8685
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

I figured that was the case. Even so, they're still capable of doing more damage than a Historian Plasma Focus on Overload at knife-fighting ranges.

The trick remains getting into knife-fight range.

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Mr Bojangles
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Mr Bojangles »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Also, I was rapidly running towards the nebulous "when Notepad++ says the wordcount is 55,000, stop writing" limit. Kind of a shame, really, I had wanted to have Alex show that picture of a Supermarine Spitfire to Talon, and have her first express disbelief that it was capable of flight, and then incredulity that Alexander's people were flying those things as top-of-the-line technology 225 years ago, literally within a Loroi lifetime.

So far, the shoe hasn't dropped. Nobody with the intelligence and context to understand how fast human technology has advanced has seen any of the hints dropped about human tech from earlier. When it does, well...

Loremark lived a long life by Loroi standards in the absence of violent death. She was 459 years old. Round that to 460 and subtract it from where humanity is as of Outsider, and you're in the Golden Age of Sail, and Edward Teach is the most fearsome devil sailing the West Indies, (Edward Kenway excepted). Meanwhile, it took the Loroi 525 years to go from the industrial revolution to Sputnik.

The Loroi and Umiak have a hell of a headstart, but humanity are catching up by virtue of riding the technological equivalent of a rocket-powered death-dragster.
I don't know if you've dug them up yet, but we've actually had pretty extensive discussions on the relative rates of technological advancement for humanity and the Loroi. Just an FYI, but here's something Arioch said - http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17262#p17262.

I enjoyed your latest installment (loved what Alex pulled on Talon). Looking forward to more.

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Mr Bojangles
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Mr Bojangles »

Durabys wrote:Oh god. I am an idiot. I fail at mathematics for ever. Please. Kill me. The result was 3,469 tonnes. Not kilotons. The firepower is well in range of Real Sci-Fi weaponry. Oh god. This feels like the famed 'Telepanty' Debacle all over again.
Haha, you're good, man. Math errors happen, but that misspelling of "telepathically" was pretty epic. NOMAD still hasn't quite lived that one down...

ShadowDragon8685
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Mr Bojangles wrote:I don't know if you've dug them up yet, but we've actually had pretty extensive discussions on the relative rates of technological advancement for humanity and the Loroi. Just an FYI, but here's something Arioch said - http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17262#p17262.
I think I had read that a while ago. Frankly, I put it down to "this is what this race is culturally geared for." Just like the Umiak and Loroi are culturally geared for domination, humanity is culturally geared for innovation. In small part, I think, this is due to both major races's status as inheritors of a long-ago dead race's technology. They're caught in the rut the Imperium of Man is, of always thinking of "the ancients" as having been better and superior, and thus there's more interest in rediscovering what "the ancients" had than in researching new things for themselves. The discovery of the psionic amplifier helps to reinforce this.

Mainly, though, I suspect it's because we're the only ones who write science fiction.
I enjoyed your latest installment (loved what Alex pulled on Talon). Looking forward to more.
Technically, he didn't pull anything on her at all. He just let her walk blindly into something someone else was pulling. :)

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Mr Bojangles
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Mr Bojangles »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Mr Bojangles wrote:I don't know if you've dug them up yet, but we've actually had pretty extensive discussions on the relative rates of technological advancement for humanity and the Loroi. Just an FYI, but here's something Arioch said - http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17262#p17262.
I think I had read that a while ago. Frankly, I put it down to "this is what this race is culturally geared for." Just like the Umiak and Loroi are culturally geared for domination, humanity is culturally geared for innovation. In small part, I think, this is due to both major races's status as inheritors of a long-ago dead race's technology. They're caught in the rut the Imperium of Man is, of always thinking of "the ancients" as having been better and superior, and thus there's more interest in rediscovering what "the ancients" had than in researching new things for themselves. The discovery of the psionic amplifier helps to reinforce this.

Mainly, though, I suspect it's because we're the only ones who write science fiction.
If you read my post above that one, I agree. Humanity's "gearing" is recent in our history, but once we let our curiosity get the better of us, we were off. And, that seems to be a unique thing in Outsider.
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I enjoyed your latest installment (loved what Alex pulled on Talon). Looking forward to more.
Technically, he didn't pull anything on her at all. He just let her walk blindly into something someone else was pulling. :)
Well, he could have warned her. But, like any true best friend, he let her blunder right into it and got a chuckle out of it. :)

ShadowDragon8685
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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Mr Bojangles wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I enjoyed your latest installment (loved what Alex pulled on Talon). Looking forward to more.
Technically, he didn't pull anything on her at all. He just let her walk blindly into something someone else was pulling. :)
Well, he could have warned her. But, like any true best friend, he let her blunder right into it and got a chuckle out of it. :)
Exactly. A mere friend would have warned her and she could have grabbed a pistol while she was aboard Coldfjord courtesy of Spiral. :P

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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Absalom »

harlequin2262 wrote:If nothing else, the general transliteration can be applied, even if the meter and rhyme is wasted. If they heard him speak it though, at least a measure of it could be retained.
I imagine poetry to be something the Loroi struggle with as well, being as rooted as it is with creative mistruths.
Actually, it's mostly rooted in the rhyme & meter: the syllabic structure makes it easier to memorize the contents, since it makes them semi-regular. Prose works well when written, or in some other way recorded, but reciting it from memory is also harder, hence the reason that plays traditionally contained poetry instead of prose.

The flowery content has some historicity, but mostly because having more ways to say something makes it easier to fit it into the chosen poetic structure. Traditionally poetry wasn't normally written just to be a form of art, even if that was one of the goals, whereas today it's fairly common for poetry to be written for it's own sake.

There's an Egyptian myth that's passingly relevant: when Thoth invented writing, one of the gods (either Osiris or Ra, I forget which) expressed the concern that the people might forget how to remember.

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Re: What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

Post by Sweforce »

I came to think about the popularity of E-sports, especially in South Korea where StarCraft live feeds are popular entertainment nowadays. If a certain bar owner sold the feed to some network Talon & Spiral could have become celebrities with a following of fans eager to get autographs! :mrgreen: And earn a buck once they sue for a piece of earnings for the feed. I doubt individual loroi in the fleet have any money of their own other then perhaps an allowance to sample the local R&R opportunities.

I also came to think about the welcoming drink Alex got, while anything willingly consumed are probably tested for the loroi to avoid incidents. There is however always the possibility of a say, a wasp finding it's way beneath the armour of an unlucky warrior causing some interesting effect. Mosquitos on the other would not find them palatable at all letting an loroi be amused at the sight of Alex & Kelly waving their arms swearing in an desperate attempt to get rid of the pests. There is a lot of possibilities. :twisted:

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