Outcast Quest [Updated 10/10/18 - Turn 14]

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Razor One »

Yeah, it's the Doctor's stats that mattered here as it's in the biomedical field. Even if your learning surpassed his, unless you've trained as a doctor, he'd still be the one to head this action, otherwise you'd have weird stuff where people like Volkova would be pulling biomedical miracles with no medical training.

Learning for your character is affected by your core specialisation. In your case, you're a ships captain, so anything to do with your ship that calls for learning is where your learning is what will apply. In a similar vein, it's why O'Malley was in charge of the whaling expedition, even though it utilised shuttles and marines firing harpoons; she was the one best able to coordinate actions with smallcraft.

Cross-disciplinary stuff will probably take the average of a stat, so if you were trying a novel naval maneuver in combat, a mix of martial and learning would apply.

Working on your options for your tactical turn. Mostly figuring out a good balance of nice rewards and choices to make. Expect it tonight or tomorrow.
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Razor One »

Tactical Research Turn

Your armed forces have traded in their guns and lasers for harpoons and ancient songs about whaling. Most recently, they managed bring in a good specimen for study and dissection. Unfortunately, you only have so much time before the whale decomposes into uselessness. What parts would you like your research team to focus on?

Choose Three.

[] Strange Gizzard
[] Stomach Contents
[] The Brain
[] Odd Diaphram
[] Strange Corkscrew Structures
[] Skeletal System
[] Heart and Circulatory System
[] Viscous Substance
[] Vile Cysts
[] Bloated Organs
[] Musculature and Fat.
[] Pulsating Membrane

--

Yes, the options are vague by design. You'll get maybe one or two more chances to get additional tactical research into whales if you choose to continue hunting them, but you're not going to be able to get to study them fully unless you roll insanely well or start building dedicated whaling vessels and going full Moby Dick on their asses.

Will put a Survey up tomorrow so people can have a chance to discuss potential boons. :P
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Siber »

I vote for the:


[X] Stomach Contents
[X] The Brain
[X] Strange Corkscrew Structures

Reasons! The contents could potentially teach us about the ecosystem these things move through rather than just about them. The brain could tell us if these things are smarter than we think so we can stop murdering them asap if needed. And the strange corkscrews are strange, so they might be useless or they might teach us something novel. Learning novel things about where we are now could save our ass, or open up new avenues.
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by dragoongfa »

Well...

I would say that the Brain is a must at first glance. Since the whales do not show any signs of Jump sickness the nervous system must have something to do with it.

The Viscous substance and the vile cysts sound weird at first but they may be related to their immune system with everything that entails in medical research.

The Gizzard and the Stomach would tell us what the whale has been eating and by extension what else may be out there.

The Diaphram and the corkscrew structures sound related to their sonar like abilities.

Musculature and Fat would show us if they are edible.

The Organs anything else that is usable.

Skeletal and Circulatory system would show us any potential weakness.

The Pulsating Membrane, I don't know what that will be.

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Shrewfoot »

Based off your logic Dragoongfa, I'm leaning towards...

Brain
Corkscrew structure
Pulsating membrane

Brain seems pretty self-explanatory. The corkscrew structure if it IS sonar (which seems likely as you said) we could stand to learn more about how sonar works in this dimension, we could probably adapt better sonar tech based off of it which would be swell.

As for pulsating membrane, I want to study it because there doesn't seem to be an obvious way to interpret it. The mystery is attractive to me and if these whales seem to be non-sapient then studying them further is certainly on the table, we can learn if they are edible later. But if they do turn out to be sapient, I'd rather learn all I can about their most mysterious aspects before it becomes an ethical problem.
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Absalom »

I've decided to aim for "wierdness".

[X] Strange Corkscrew Structures
[X] Vile Cysts
[X] Pulsating Membrane

dragoongfa wrote:The Diaphram and the corkscrew structures sound related to their sonar like abilities.
Why would "corkscrew" say "sonar" to you? Do you think sound here is circularly polarized or something?
dragoongfa wrote:Well...

I would say that the Brain is a must at first glance. Since the whales do not show any signs of Jump sickness the nervous system must have something to do with it.
Which I expect won't be translatable to Humanity any faster than just researching Jump Sickness. Any benefit from Brain will probably be from something else.
dragoongfa wrote:The Viscous substance and the vile cysts sound weird at first but they may be related to their immune system with everything that entails in medical research.
Vile Cysts are probably either what you think, or some sort of reproductive/excretory/etc system. I suppose that they could use them for sound detection (ala Ampullae of Lorenzini), but that's all I can think of.

The Viscous Substance, on the other hand, makes me think "blood", and "slug/hagfish slime". Blood is of course commonly related to immune function, but we don't actually know where this stuff came from. It could be breast milk, for instance.
dragoongfa wrote:Skeletal and Circulatory system would show us any potential weakness.
Or maybe they'll have a useful substance, e.g. carbon nanotubes.
dragoongfa wrote:The Pulsating Membrane, I don't know what that will be.
Maybe a fetus, maybe an "escape organ" that can take the most recent of the whale's memories and start the maturation process again, maybe a parasite, maybe a biological tracking device.

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Razor One »

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Krulle »

Starting to join you. Started reading up a bit, while having followed this thread the last round....

Brain? Why research that? Just killing the wonders of vacuum-life alone is an ethical problem. Are these whales that common, or do we know of only one or two groups? Once the brain tells us these Whales are sapient-able, we should stop. Just take the cynical approach and leave that for later. Whatever we can learn there we cannot use for ourselves anyway, we would have to modify Humans to a degree that they would stop being Humans.
[edit]Absalom already had the same idea. It would help checking for a new page before answering... d'uh![/edit]

We do not know much about their biosphere yet, so observation may be more useful before examining their digestive tracts. Once we've seen them eat, we know more. And if they "eat" and breakdown asteroids and re-compose that matter, we will find the remains even if they are fully decomposed.
Skeletal system should be able to resist decomposing a bit longer anyway. We should be able to research parts of that even after decomposing of the corpse.

For that reason, my choices would be rather random and pointed towards things which decompose fast. Like organs, circulatory systems, cysts, brain, viscous substance, ...

The pulsating membrane may be their defecatory organ. Somehow even vacuum organisms need to get rid of accumulating poisonous matter. A membrane to kick it out into space may be their way, as they still need to seal against vacuum.


Or have I missed things we already know about the Whales?
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by dragoongfa »

Voted:

[x]Brain
[x]Corkscrew structures
[x]Viscous substance

Mostly stuff that I believed would offer some insights about the whales themselves.

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Absalom »

Voted as I previously said.
Krulle wrote:A membrane to kick it out into space may be their way, as they still need to seal against vacuum.


Or have I missed things we already know about the Whales?
Well, there is the fact that we've never actually seen them inside of a vacuum, hence why sonar works here.

One of the possible concerns with hunting whales is that the local super-power is not the Loroi, but instead a silicon-based species that considers carbon-based species to be tools... and creates such. So we might be interfering with someone else's mining operation.

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 27/7/16 - Turn 12 Results]

Post by Razor One »

Survey Closed. Apologies for the delay, a lot of stuff came up.

Here's what you got.

Tactical Turn Results

[X] Stomach Contents

Probing the stomach contents of a filter feeding organism the size of a football field was an interesting experience for most of your scientists. And by interesting, they meant creepy and unnerving. Still, they did discover a lot about the whales diet. It seems that they mostly feed on the gases of the jovian-like environment itself, filtering in heavy particles that then get broken down and digested by various enzymes and acids, same as most any other living organism really. Such particles can vary from micro-fine dust not all to different from proplyd material to chunks as large as their mouths can stretch.

Fortunately it seems that the whales themselves have no teeth, so it's highly doubtful that they're carnivorous. That seems to be the Manta's evolutionary niche.

Further investigation did reveal something quite useful though. A beneficial gut bacteria was found that is highly efficient at breaking down organic molecules. Samples and testing reveal they could have an enormous benefit to any organic recycling measures you care to implement.

Reward: Stomach Contains Beneficial Microbe, +100% to Recycling Tanks

[X] The Brain

Whales on Earth are believed to be intelligent, even if their language is an uncrackable mess of metaphor and impenetrable cultural references to which you have no reference points. Many of your scientists were both excited and afraid that they'd gone out and killed the Whale's equivalent of Mozart, Picasso, or Einstein.

They needn't have worried. The whales are as dumb as a doorknocker. Dumber in fact. Though their brains are quite large in comparison to even the brainiest terran creature, the neurons are too spread out for them to have any sort of coordinated and focused intellect, being more akin to dullest cows. They have enough intelligence to smell out new sources of food, to breed, to recognise danger, and so forth, but abstract reasoning, language and even self awareness are questionable. As one report put it "They have more in common with a terran fish than they do a terran whale."

Reward: Knowledge on Whale Intellect, +10 to future Whale Hunts

[X] Strange Corkscrew Structures

While your other research teams were covering the more familiar structures to expand your knowledge about the whales in general, these structures piqued the interest of many, having no earthly equivalent of any kind.

They set to work eagerly, though carefully, dissecting the structures in order to determine precisely what they were for.

After much consternation and debate, along with some plain observation, your scientists have determined that these corkscrews are a unique form of propulsion. A series of microstructures cover the surfaces of the corkscrew. As gas passes over them, a strange electrochemical effect occurs, with the resulting gas escaping the structure faster than it entered. The result is propulsion, allowing the whales to move their bulk with much more agility than a mere flipper could muster, though they seem to have retained those structures for attitude control.

The corkscrew propulsor is able to vary its width and length, and thus the strength of its propulsive effect, as well as close off altogether, allowing the whale to stop. Reversing the direction of the corkscrew seems to have the reverse effect, allowing the whales to slow down without turning.

Your scientists believe that they can replicate the structure for the most part for incorporation into the drone designs that were drawn up a while back. Additionally, they believe that a propulsion module could be added onto the L'Amour's outer engine block that would allow for faster transit within the Briar Patch. For obvious reasons, this propulsive method only works within your home region of space.

Reward: Unique Propulsion, Corkscrew Propulsion Module (Requires Drydock): Reduces transit time to exit Briar Patch down to one week (two months by default), +200 Drone Research

--

So, you got some fairly nice bonuses, and there are definitely more in the wings. Whale hunting will be a repeatable military action which will result in further tactical turns, but bear in mind that while the whales are essentially stupid, they're not completely dumb and will wise up to your hunting them over time or if you roll poorly.

As an aside, if you succeed on your next whale hunt, you can repeat these actions again, though your bonuses will be slightly lower.

I need to do some bookeeping cleanup and rolls for the end of your first year as a colony. So far you've done well. :twisted:
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by Tamri »

I propose in the future continue to explore the impeller, and the other two options take something incomprehensible, like membrane, for example.

Nice work, Razor.

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by dragoongfa »

Nice...

The Recycling center now got very sexy in the build order, we also got the upgrade that helps with the hunting so that's an extra bonus.

The propulsion module and drone research stuff are great but I got one question in regards to the Briar patch.

Does the transit time of two months is the time needed to go from one end of the Briar patch to the other or from where Niflheim is to its edge?

EDIT: Also since Whale hunting takes 2 turns does this mean that we will get an other tactical turn or does this mean that the whalers need to take some down time?

EDIT2: Also how many whales are there in the Briar patch?

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by Razor One »

Transit time is from your current position to the edge nearest to Loroi space. It used to be a month but you've drifted further in over the past year. Most of that was because of fuel limitations and top speed considerations in a dense atmosphere. Your engines are designed for vacuum after all, and your hull isn't fully aerodynamic. The Corkscrew propellers basically circumvent most of your problems.

The whale hunting option hasn't been updated since you first encountered the whales in a scouting mission. Since they're right at your doorstep, it only takes one turn now.

The number of whales in your local area that you can see range into the thousands, not including their young. The briar patch as a whole is vast, and there could be potentially millions or more, depending on the ecosystem. You've only just scratched the surface there.
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by dragoongfa »

Hmm...

Will need to make some alterations to the build plan in order to save time.

EDIT: Updated the headplan to take into account the time saving effects of the corkscrew module and its need for a dry-dock:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Moved the Warehousing down and put a second round of Whalers in since its both something that people will now want and its relatively cheap. In the next round we will go as low as 1000RU in the reserves but after that we will see a steady increase especially when the Recycling center kicks in.

EDIT2: Forgot to ask, when will the population increase kick in?

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by Siber »

Awesome outcomes, glad we went with those strange corkscrews! That should in time make chasing us into the briarpatch a very bad idea for enemies. With those kinds of bonuses a second round of whaling is indeed pretty appealing. Not sure I'd advocate another hit of spirals though, I suspect the diminished returns on that will make the opportunity cost on getting other bonuses fairly painful, though it's hard to say that for sure without fore-knowledge of what the options are of course.
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by Razor One »

Population increase kicks in next turn, but since they're only infants they're not going to add to your productive population for another 18 years. 16 if a majority of the thread argues for a decrease in working age, though that may have consequences.

I've got to do a lot more cleaning up of various bits and pieces, odds and ends. I've transferred the character sheets over to an excel document. Should make keeping things up to date easier, though I've yet to apply all your stat gains. I've also got to go over your commodities you brought over. The bees are an issue if I recall, and my internal time limit was a year for their stasis. The various saplings should be able to manage for a while longer. Their growth is stunted until you build plantation structures for them, something I'll include in next turns stewardship actions.
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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by Sweforce »

Razor One wrote:Population increase kicks in next turn, but since they're only infants they're not going to add to your productive population for another 18 years. 16 if a majority of the thread argues for a decrease in working age, though that may have consequences.
Maybe they can let themselves be "persuaded" to take some disgruntled civilian cast workers of their forthcoming loroi allies hands as a sign of friendship. :mrgreen:

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by dragoongfa »

@Razor

The bees should have been included in the diversification process. In fact the potato plant requires pollination so some bees should have been out from day 1.

EDIT: In fact: http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 296#p21296
Corn, wheat and rice will require you to UNLEASH THE BEES, though your potatoes won't need them.
Corn and Wheat don't require pollination but Rice does and it is among our staples so the bees should be in picture with the diversification process.

EDIT2: Regarding the saplings, they are all genetic samples that require a biolab to produce them so we shouldn't have a problem with their being in the fridge:

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 798#p20798

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Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]

Post by Absalom »

Razor One wrote:Population increase kicks in next turn, but since they're only infants they're not going to add to your productive population for another 18 years. 16 if a majority of the thread argues for a decrease in working age, though that may have consequences.
No, they should be contributing a little around the time of their teens, even if just as a consequence of handling chores & educational projects (if not for the creche, and the daycare that it'll presumably develop into, they should be reducing productivity for the earier bits of their lives). Given that the population were colonists, they should be expecting the same too, since it basically falls under the same "rules of pragmatism" as kids growing up on a farm; even in Western societies this "no working till age of majority" stuff only applies to developed living situations.
Sweforce wrote:Maybe they can let themselves be "persuaded" to take some disgruntled civilian cast workers of their forthcoming loroi allies hands as a sign of friendship. :mrgreen:
If I were the Loroi, I wouldn't offer even rebellious civilian caste to someone that I'd known for less than several years, though that is faster than waiting on human maturation.

If we want population increases in the "near" future, then we're looking at either Urkuk (very fast life cycles) or immigration.
dragoongfa wrote:@Razor

The bees should have been included in the diversification process. In fact the potato plant requires pollination so some bees should have been out from day 1.
Potato flowers don't produce nectar, so the bees would quickly die. Nothing in the easily available set of plants will make nectar available. I talked about this with Razor before the pause.

In short, you guys flunked your homework.

Also, potatoes only need pollination when producing new varieties (which I assume is the back-story for them, since none of the convenient cargo calls for them), potato propogation is primarily via root cuttings, much like roses & strawberries. I thought this was common knowledge?
dragoongfa wrote:
Corn, wheat and rice will require you to UNLEASH THE BEES, though your potatoes won't need them.
Corn and Wheat don't require pollination but Rice does and it is among our staples so the bees should be in picture with the diversification process.
Rice is wind fertilized, just like corn and wheat (and yes, I checked). All of the grasses (which all three are members of) are wind fertilized. Bees might take advantage of their pollen on occasion, but the plant gains nothing from it.



Edited in:
My original post on nectar: link. Don't say that I didn't warn you, because I did. Your belief that Staples + Bees was enough for Honey was completely off-base and unresearched, which is why I mentioned Nectar.

And no, the wheat, rice, and corn don't produce nectar either.
dragoongfa wrote:EDIT2: Regarding the saplings, they are all genetic samples that require a biolab to produce them so we shouldn't have a problem with their being in the fridge:

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 798#p20798
And so is the Algae. Every saving grace that the Bees could have counted on is non-existent. You'd basically have to find some way to extract the sugar from something, at which point you're probably looking at Biolab or similar regardless. You guys should have swapped Algae and Bees for each other.

...

joestej thought trees would be ready to cut down in a year? Man, I hope you guys weren't counting on that. That's a Hemp growth rate, not a tree growth rate.

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