STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

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icekatze
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

It doesn't help that many of the paths through systems are not on the ecliptic, so most of the inner system debris isn't going to be along most of the usual transit paths.

Presumably, even though there is a protoplanetary disk in the Naam system, it hasn't been a strategic hiding spot prior to Umiak finding away around the Loroi farseers. The goal is to cross the steppes and strike at Loroi territory, and passing through a proplyd at relativistic speeds is probably a dangerous proposition.

Without farseers, one might try to hide a resupply base there, but I'm pretty sure that any long term presence would disrupt the cloud in a noticeable way. Stuff would clump up and get jostled around, and so even if they couldn't see the exact composition of the forces inside, they'd know something was there.

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cacambo43
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by cacambo43 »

I'm not a tactical expert in any sense, but I feel like there's a difference between a technology being technically possible vs. it being deployable and an overall asset. It seems to me that the more outlandish ideas being suggested here just aren't really practical or sustainable. Even if you could almost perfectly insulate the skin of a craft while shunting all this thermal energy through cryokenesis, you're going to have an inevitable build-up of heat inside the ship (and crew!). If you don't dissipate it outside at some point, you're going to roast the crew and components inside. In fact, the better your insulation, the faster this will happen. That means you only have so long to cool-down your ship and to commence operations before you have to either leave or give up your stealth advantage. With all the other technology and tactics available, I just don't see why any of these proposed solutions would be considered for a split-solon.

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Siber
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by Siber »

@Cacambo43, that's the typical problem with thermal stealth in space. White's whole proposal is to use a specific psionic power to sidestep that, by 'magically' cooling the ship off in ways that are not typically physically possible.
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cacambo43
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by cacambo43 »

But even with conjectured Loroi "cryokenesis", the heat has to go somewhere - into the Loroi bodies, if I was reading the increasingly implausible scenarios right. Unless you have a way for them to dump the heat into hyperspace, I don't see how you can ultimately get around it.

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Siber
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by Siber »

The Insider goes into some detail on those considerations, and the various telekinetics variations don't have to worry about where to put the reaction to whatever it is they're doing. A regular telekinetic doesn't have to push off anything, or off themself, a pyro doesn't have to get the heat from anywhere, and a cryo doesn't have to put it anywhere. Hyperspace is the best bet if you're looking for something to balance the equations.
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icekatze
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

My own personal hypothesis is time travel. That the Loroi brainwaves are reaching some point in the future, where a highly powerful being/machine sends the appropriate reaction back in time to the appropriate moment.

But it's probably just best to accept it as magic. ;)

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cacambo43
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by cacambo43 »

Siber wrote:The Insider goes into some detail on those considerations, and the various telekinetics variations don't have to worry about where to put the reaction to whatever it is they're doing. A regular telekinetic doesn't have to push off anything, or off themself, a pyro doesn't have to get the heat from anywhere, and a cryo doesn't have to put it anywhere. Hyperspace is the best bet if you're looking for something to balance the equations.
Yes, I see. I am just now getting my brain up to speed on all that. Interesting speculation on how it might be done, but I still don't think it would be very practical. Probably not enough to give a great advantage or and edge, anyway.

I like icekatze's time travel idea! Heh heh.

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novius
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by novius »

I think there are two more mundane means of hiding some ship's presence in space which hadn't been discussed here, meaning directed emissions and destructive interference.

Directed Emissions
When you imagine a lighthouse, your mind puts in the beam emitted from the lighthouse, preferably with the lighthouse on the left and the beam pointing right, not straight at you, right?

Well, that picture would only be correct if you keep in mind that it would normally be a foggy night. In clear weather, you wouldn't be able to see the beam unless it's pointed straight at you.

What you actually see is the backscatter of the beam, the fog's water drops reflecting the light of the beam. Take away these drops and the light continues on its path with you none the wiser.

Same thing happens in astronomy when watching specific stellar objects, like pulsars. We only get a hint of their presence if their beam (the jet of emitted particles and radiation) passes over the detector while the stellar object rotates.

So, if you have a good idea where the foe is coming from you might be able to direct your emissions away from there... but you may watch for possible backscatters. Space isn't completely empty, and some excited hydrogen or helium atoms may still give away your presence.

Destructive Interference
Light plus Light equals darkness... well, it's difficult to wrap your mind around this, but that's wave theory for you. That it actually works you can see in a double-slit experiment, on any soap bubble or on insect carapaces. There you see interference in action.

Add to that, with sound there are even practical applications. Any headphone with Active Noise Reduction proves that.

Trying with interference, you need to have a good idea where the enemy is coming from, but a carefully calibrated emitter which copies the own emissions and puts up the corresponding opposite-phase emissions would leave a single scout or a tightly packed squad in an interference shadow. At the cost that when moving out of the shadow, your ship will be doubly noticeable.


So, even when taking away supernatural means there should be enough possibilities to ... while not making a ship completely undetectable ... make looking for a carefully hidden ship quite an effort.

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Chekist_Felix
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Re: STEALTH!!!...IN SPACE!!!

Post by Chekist_Felix »

Right now the most elusive thing in the known universe is next page of "Outsider". *ba dum tss*
My literacy is cringe-fest... Apologies for what you're about to read.

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