Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[icekatze]

hi hi

Thinking about how the Loroi food situation would have promoted different things than our own early history, I also wonder how the Loroi's engineered immune system would have promoted different things. For most wars up until modern warfare, disease killed more people than combat, but I imagine the same might not have been true for the Loroi. (Except maybe on Perrein.)

[Arioch]

I think especially in Daiam in the ancient period, where they built large fortifications (in violation of standard Loroi Warrior rules),

Oho, can you explain further? As much detail as possible please, this sounds interesting.

At the beginning of the Loroi Iron Age, when the earliest city-states were still struggling to survive against barbarian invasions, defensive works in and around cities were more common. Many were partial walls designed to funnel the enemy into a narrow area to be dealt with by heavy infantry (the barbarians had PK's too), often earthen works or rough brick. The city-state of Lotam on the Daiam peninsula off the eastern coast of Mestirot had access to stone quarries and so built more complete, conventional stone walls. As they settled new cities throughout the peninsula, they became famous for their distinctive stone walls. As their settlements spread to the mainland, they encountered more formidable resistance, both from barbarians and from other city-states, and so they built a sort of Hadrian's Wall across the narrow isthmus near Shezen. These great fortifications stood for more than a thousand years, persisting well into the Classical era when such things became against the rules of 'civilized' warfare. One of the negative stereotypes of the eastern Login racial group (of which Daiam was a part) is that they are either a) barbarians, or b) cowards who hide behind walls.

Thinking about how the Loroi food situation would have promoted different things than our own early history, I also wonder how the Loroi's engineered immune system would have promoted different things. For most wars up until modern warfare, disease killed more people than combat, but I imagine the same might not have been true for the Loroi. (Except maybe on Perrein.)

Large scale disease was rare on Deinar. Most disease organisms must have a specifically evolved parasite-host relationship, and the Loroi were alien transplants who apparently didn't bring any of their own pathogens with them. The most common diseases on Deinar were descendants of the Dreiman terraforming yeast, and there were only a few times in history when virulent strains of this respiratory infection became widespread and life-threatening. More here: http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 825#p16825

[icekatze]

hi hi

...More here: http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 825#p16825

That's what I was referencing. What I meant was, I wonder how that fact affects the logistics of warfare, since disease doesn't cull the wounded like it did on ancient Earth, you would at least probably end up with a lot more veteran fighters living to fight another day unless something else existed to make warfare deadlier.

[Arioch]

hi hi

...More here: http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 825#p16825

That's what I was referencing. What I meant was, I wonder how that fact affects the logistics of warfare, since disease doesn't cull the wounded like it did on ancient Earth, you would at least probably end up with a lot more veteran fighters living to fight another day unless something else existed to make warfare deadlier.

I'm not sure it would make a big difference, except perhaps to make armies larger. Disease was kind of a steady attrition on Earth armies, but I don't think it affected logistics much since there wasn't really anything to be done about it at that tech level.

[dragoongfa]

I think that you found a salient point as to why Loroi, to their admission, have been fighting not stop throughout their history and is seen universally as the pinnacle of civilization.

We have to admit that disease attrition is one of the key reason why human cultures saw war with trepidation, war was dangerous not only because of those killed but also because of the diseases that spread in its wake.

Now imagine if the attrition through diseases wasn't there for us; in such war would have lost a core negative aspect and may have gained a far more prominent role in policy making and geopolitical planning as far more men would return alive from even major conflict. Veteran warriors who wouldn't be as scared as warriors who would have seen their comrades die en mass due to diseases.

To give an example, take the Roman populists and how they preached of the spoils and glory war and conquests brought to Rome. Now take diseases completely out of the picture and the countless dead warriors that they brought; war just lost its greatest danger while still maintaining its luster.

I think that culturally war would have become a far more acceptable low risk, high reward endeavor if humans didn't have to contend with diseases.

[Arioch]

Now imagine if the attrition through diseases wasn't there for us; in such war would have lost a core negative aspect and may have gained a far more prominent role in policy making and geopolitical planning as far more men would return alive from even major conflict. Veteran warriors who wouldn't be as scared as warriors who would have seen their comrades die en mass due to diseases.

I've never been in battle, but it's hard for me to imagine that soldiers would be more afraid of death due to disease than of being brutally hacked to death on the battlefield. There was plenty of disease at home as well.

However, it is true that it's one of many factors that made warfare more common. A warrior culture, military leadership of the state, dedicated standing armies with high social status, a peasant class that was off-limits both to military service and as a target of military action, and so forth.

[Luge]

Is there any particular reason why Reed has her hair neatly braided and coiled around her head (as per the concept drawings) and the fact that it's not visible with her helmet, as opposed to Fireblade, whose hair permanently looks like a scarlet-coloured houseplant that's got out of control?

L.

[Arioch]

Is there any particular reason why Reed has her hair neatly braided and coiled around her head (as per the concept drawings) and the fact that it's not visible with her helmet, as opposed to Fireblade, whose hair permanently looks like a scarlet-coloured houseplant that's got out of control?

Two very different characters, of different castes, and substantially different ranks.

[Hālian]

What are the usual temperatures in the Arranese deserts?

[Arioch]

What are the usual temperatures in the Arranese deserts?

It's a large region, so it varies considerably by location and according to the weather. In the southern latitudes, the open desert gets well below freezing at night. The usual lack of cloud cover means the temperature rises significantly during the day, but it rarely gets "hot."

[Werra]

If Teidar that can kill with unamplified TK are uncommon, how did they go about breaking up infantry formations?

And what is the limiting factor in their lethality? Are they too weak to kill even directly attacking organs or are they too inaccurate to attack the weak points that require little force?

[Arioch]

If Teidar that can kill with unamplified TK are uncommon, how did they go about breaking up infantry formations?

Mostly by pushing, tripping, or lifting as a coordinated group.

And what is the limiting factor in their lethality? Are they too weak to kill even directly attacking organs or are they too inaccurate to attack the weak points that require little force?

Attacking unseen internal organs of a moving target requires both high TK skill and accurate anatomical and physiological knowledge, which was in short supply in pre-industrial times. Most of the attacks that a Classical-era Teidar knew how to perform were on the order of a "Force-choke" and not instantly lethal, though some (like a "kidney-punch") did have a chance to stun or incapacitate. The brain is especially vulnerable to telekinetic attacks, but not all Loroi of the period knew this; in our own Classical period, some of the top Greek scientists thought that the brain was just a cooling mechanism for the blood.

There were some Teidar that had the skill, power, and/or expertise to instantly kill with telekinesis, but they were in the minority.

[Jericho]

Arioch wrote:
If nguni shields could reliably stop bullets, I think the battles of Rorke's Drift and Ulundi would have turned out every differently. However, since the Loroi infantry weren't facing bullets, I'm not sure that's relevant. You don't need to chase down skirmishers when they can't hurt you because they don't have any effective missile weapons.

My bad... should have worded myself a little better. The point i was trying to make is that it is possible to create a strong large shield using light materials if you want one. Not bullet stopping perhaps but certainly enough to protect against swordblades and other lighter weapons (polearms not so much i'd warrant).

Arioch wrote:
The percentage of warriors could be as large as half, even in antiquity. Many pre-industrial jobs that we consider to be "civilian" were handled by the warrior class, including most municipal, engineering and many skilled craft jobs (especially those involving production of weapons and armor). Loroi need less food than humans, and their staple crop was an ultra-tech supergrain, so they didn't need as many farmers as humans in the comparable era did.

Could you eloborate on this a bit more?

Is there any list of professions that are exlusivily civillian? Apart from farming. On that subject are farmers self employed or serfs of a local lord?

How much of a crossover is there between civillian and warriors that practise in a similar field (assuming that they do)? In medieval europe you would have the swordmakers and the knifemakers guilds which weren't allowed to produce each others goods (leading to a hilarous dispute regarding the german messer). Would the Loroi have the swordblades made by warriors and later let the civillian do the menial task of producing the hilt and decorating it?

Don't know if i've asked this before but have there been an effort to phase out the civillian Loroi entirely from Loroi society and leave those lower tasks to their alien subjects? Like making laws that forbid breeding for the civillians and let them die out from old age? Or do they Loroi still want them around less they be forced to rely entirely on smelly inferior aliens (like Golims)?

Lastly what is the loroi word for civillian? Is it directly translated or they call civillians something more derogatory like serf, laborer or workers?

[Arioch]

Is there any list of professions that are exclusively civilian? Apart from farming. On that subject are farmers self employed or serfs of a local lord?

Loroi subcultures in different times and locations had different laws and customs, so there was some variation. In most, civilian workers were forbidden from engaging in combat or the direct support thereof, and warriors were forbidden from working for personal profit. Warriors were not above menial labor (like Roman legions, they were frequently put to work building roads and outposts and other infrastructure, or to forage and sometimes harvest crops in enemy territory, or even in friendly territory during an emergency), but such work was supposed to be for the common welfare, and they were not allowed to sell the fruits of their labor. Civilians were usually excluded from manufacturing weapons and armor, partly to help keep the working class in line, but also partly to keep them from being targeted during wartime and to discourage looting and pillaging. In some subcultures, nearly all "town" jobs were considered military and the civilians were restricted purely to rural jobs (in Daiam, they justified city fortifications by making nearly all city-dwellers military), but in most cases the two were more integrated.

Food was probably the main strategic asset produced by civilians, but they tried to treat food as a civilian asset, and there were strict rules against destroying food or using starvation as a war tactic. If there are no city walls, there are no sieges.

The legal status of the working class varied under different governments and subcultures and over time. In most of the Classical period, civilians were not overtly considered property, but they owed fealty to a state government or an individual that was similar to that of peasants in medieval Europe. In the modern Loroi Union, civilians are legally free agents, though they may often owe significant duties to the guilds or orders to which they are affiliated.

How much of a crossover is there between civillian and warriors that practise in a similar field (assuming that they do)? In medieval europe you would have the swordmakers and the knifemakers guilds which weren't allowed to produce each others goods (leading to a hilarous dispute regarding the german messer). Would the Loroi have the swordblades made by warriors and later let the civillian do the menial task of producing the hilt and decorating it?

Resolution of overlap varied, with the work sometimes given to one group or the other, or sometimes with the two groups working together. Sometimes civilian blacksmiths were involved in the weapons manufacturing process, and sometimes they were excluded to the point of all steel tools being the exclusive province of warrior smiths. There was no civilian weapons market, so a civilian langmesser-like "long knife" sword was out of the question. As warfare became more industrialized, it became harder to keep civilians completely out of strategic production, and civilians and warriors had to become more integrated in the military-industrial sector, as they are in the modern Union.

However, when it comes to civilian guilds and rival monopolies of civilians goods and services, there is still a fair amount of silly contention over who is allowed to make what. Some Loroi nations are still more mercantilist than free market.

Don't know if i've asked this before but have there been an effort to phase out the civillian Loroi entirely from Loroi society and leave those lower tasks to their alien subjects? Like making laws that forbid breeding for the civillians and let them die out from old age? Or do they Loroi still want them around less they be forced to rely entirely on smelly inferior aliens (like Golims)?

Though the ancient sagas hint at a time when their ancestors were pure warriors (labor being done by "others"), I think most modern Loroi warriors dislike aliens far more than they dislike Loroi civilians.

Lastly what is the loroi word for civillian? Is it directly translated or they call civillians something more derogatory like serf, laborer or workers?

The most common term is sobedi, which just means "worker." A more derogatory version is sinadas, which means "fallen."

[Onaiom]

So, basically, the Loroi Civilian Caste was the same thing as the peasant women in the Medieval Age (farmers, tailors and midwives).

[Jericho]

So, basically, the Loroi Civilian Caste was the same thing as the peasant women in the Medieval Age (farmers, tailors and midwives).

I got the same feeling but to be fair peasant women would probably enjoy higher status than loroi civillians. Having a more important social role overall.

Would a male child born to a civillian mother be confiscated (for lack of a better word) or offered to the warrior class as a tribute?

[Arioch]

So, basically, the Loroi Civilian Caste was the same thing as the peasant women in the Medieval Age (farmers, tailors and midwives).

I got the same feeling but to be fair peasant women would probably enjoy higher status than loroi civillians. Having a more important social role overall.

Loroi civilian females can own and run large businesses, so I'd say they have a higher status than most European peasant women of the medieval period, as the latter couldn't own or inherit property independently of their husbands in most cases.

Would a male child born to a civillian mother be confiscated (for lack of a better word) or offered to the warrior class as a tribute?

All male children are wards of the state, raised in state-run creches, regardless of their parentage. Males are considered to be outside of the class system, and have a special status that is neither warrior nor worker. Who your mother's family is can be an important part of a male's social status, but the male children of a warrior and a worker might find themselves together in the same creche, school and adult job.

However, the percentage of Loroi, both male and female, born to civilian mothers is relatively small, especially during peacetime. The majority of civilian females were born to warrior mothers, but washed out of warrior training. Even though the percentage of children who fail the trials is small, with the frequency of Loroi generations it doesn't take much to keep up the population of civilian females, who, unlike their warrior counterparts, have a good chance of surviving for a large portion of their potential 400-year lifespans. It is normally only high-status civilian females who are allowed to reproduce, except in special circumstances such as when strong population growth is desired, or in special locations (like Maia, which has for most of its history has had an "almost" unrestricted reproductive policy, which is why a large percentage of the Loroi in the colonies have Maian ancestry).

[GeoModder]

After over eight (Earth) centuries of 'almost' unrestrictive population growth, the Maian population must be double or triple (if not more) that of the other 3 'sister worlds' combined.
If not political, did this makes the Maiad sector the economic heart of the Loroi part of the Union? And am I right to asssume there's a higher percentage of civvies compared to warriors in the Maian demographics?

In the Insider tensions because of lopsized political representation between the three original sister worlds is mentioned, of which Perrein and Taben have a smaller population level compared to Deinar.
Are there political tensions between Maia and Deinar as well because of a lack of representation in policy making (for example, all emperors have been Deinar natives)? Or does the Diadem Council nowadays have a significant presence of Maia-descended Loroi, possibly mitigating such problems?

[Jericho]

So, basically, the Loroi Civilian Caste was the same thing as the peasant women in the Medieval Age (farmers, tailors and midwives).

I got the same feeling but to be fair peasant women would probably enjoy higher status than loroi civillians. Having a more important social role overall.

Loroi civilian females can own and run large businesses, so I'd say they have a higher status than most European peasant women of the medieval period, as the latter couldn't own or inherit property independently of their husbands in most cases.

What inheritance laws do Loroi have actually?

Would a male child born to a civillian mother be confiscated (for lack of a better word) or offered to the warrior class as a tribute?

All male children are wards of the state, raised in state-run creches, regardless of their parentage. Males are considered to be outside of the class system, and have a special status that is neither warrior nor worker. Who your mother's family is can be an important part of a male's social status, but the male children of a warrior and a worker might find themselves together in the same creche, school and adult job.

However, the percentage of Loroi, both male and female, born to civilian mothers is relatively small, especially during peacetime. The majority of civilian females were born to warrior mothers, but washed out of warrior training. Even though the percentage of children who fail the trials is small, with the frequency of Loroi generations it doesn't take much to keep up the population of civilian females, who, unlike their warrior counterparts, have a good chance of surviving for a large portion of their potential 400-year lifespans. It is normally only high-status civilian females who are allowed to reproduce, except in special circumstances such as when strong population growth is desired, or in special locations (like Maia, which has for most of its history has had an "almost" unrestricted reproductive policy, which is why a large percentage of the Loroi in the colonies have Maian ancestry).

Where all males wards even in ancient times?

[Jericho]

On another unrelated topic Is there a story behind the picture of Cobalt in the insider page or is it just a random drawing?