Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

GeoModder wrote:After over eight (Earth) centuries of 'almost' unrestrictive population growth, the Maian population must be double or triple (if not more) that of the other 3 'sister worlds' combined. If not political, did this makes the Maiad sector the economic heart of the Loroi part of the Union?
Yes, the Maiad cultural group (which includes the majority of the colonial population) if by far the largest portion of the Loroi population. While Maia itself is an important commercial center and a strategic crossroads, the Maiad Sector as a whole does not have as many large, productive colonies as some more influential sectors (notably Seren), and it does not have any native alien civilizations.
GeoModder wrote:And am I right to asssume there's a higher percentage of civvies compared to warriors in the Maian demographics?
Yes.
GeoModder wrote:In the Insider tensions because of lopsized political representation between the three original sister worlds is mentioned, of which Perrein and Taben have a smaller population level compared to Deinar. Are there political tensions between Maia and Deinar as well because of a lack of representation in policy making (for example, all emperors have been Deinar natives)? Or does the Diadem Council nowadays have a significant presence of Maia-descended Loroi, possibly mitigating such problems?
While there have been tensions between "old world" and "new world" Loroi, they have mostly been cultural rather than political. In the second Loroi civil war (the Neridi Succession crisis), somewhat ironically it was the sitting Emperor (Swiftsure) who had been trying to democratize and decentralize the government, and it was the regional governor (Eighth Dawn) who ultimately restored Deinar-centric imperial rule, and there were Maia-descended personages on both sides. Although Eighth Dawn was Deinar-born, her base of power was in Seren and many of her lieutenants were Maia-descended Seren natives, and so the Maiad cultural group was fairly well represented in her government. And in the age of colonial expansion and foreign war that followed, the needs and concerns of the colonies were always given high priority (and the Emperor often governed from the frontier), whereas the grumblings of Taben conservatives deep in the heart of the empire where nothing interesting happened might not always get the attention that they felt they deserved.
Jericho wrote:What inheritance laws do Loroi have actually?
They vary according to local customs, but for the most part they are governed by individual wills and contracts. Personal property among the warrior class is subject to a variety of regulations, so a lot of the land and property was held in trust by the extended family group rather than individuals, and distribution of such property was usually controlled by a council of clan elders. If a modern Loroi who holds personal property dies without a personal will or a family contract specifying inheritance, then the eligibility for inheritance follows a path through various relatives (sisters, daughters, cousins, etc.) in an order according to local laws and customs, which vary. But much of a warrior's worldly goods (including housing) will often be provided by the state, and on her death, these revert to the state rather than being transferred through inheritance.

In Deinar history, hereditary titles (such as there were) were often allocated in a similar manner: by decision of an executor council. Important Loroi personages often had many offspring; systems that allocated arbitrarily (such as to the first born rather than to the most powerful) often led to civil war, and those that mandated even distribution among offspring often led to the subdivision, fragmentation, and ultimate dissolution of empires (see: Frankish Empire).

A daughter of a warrior family who fails the trials and is discharged into civilian life is often by custom granted a one-time outlay from the family estate, but then subsequently has no legal claim on the family's property. Inheritance among civilians is determined entirely by will or contract, since many civilians never have children and are often not directly related to those who they live and work with. Many civilian guilds have contracts with their members that mirror the function of the warrior extended families in overseeing inheritance, allocation of joint property, etc. A warrior may not inherit property from a civilian, even if she is related.
Jericho wrote:Where all males wards even in ancient times?
Sort of, but not always. In most ancient Deinar nations which had adopted some form of the caste system (the ones that didn't were known collectively as "barbarians"), males were recognized as a protected class, and reproductive access to males was strictly controlled. Males and females alike were the responsibility of the extended family, but in many cases these clans or houses were in effect the local government in semi-feudal systems. Clan rights over males persisted into the starflight era, but this was transferred to the central government along with the abolition of traditional clan names as a result of the first Loroi civil war.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

I have to wonder if there are ever any Loroi warriors who purposefully choose to go into civilian businesses. I can imagine there might be some temptation for profit, but also I could see some cases where ineffective civilian run business might motivate some Loroi to take one for the team and try to turn things around, even if it is only indirectly benefiting the military.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

icekatze wrote:I have to wonder if there are ever any Loroi warriors who purposefully choose to go into civilian businesses. I can imagine there might be some temptation for profit, but also I could see some cases where ineffective civilian run business might motivate some Loroi to take one for the team and try to turn things around, even if it is only indirectly benefiting the military.
Warriors may work with a private company if it's involved in strategic production (as modern military officers work as liaisons with armament and aerospace companies, or to help manage a private company that has been nationalized for some reason), but individual warriors don't usually get to decide where they are posted, so these are not assignments a warrior can purposefully choose. A Loroi warrior can't simply choose to retire from the military and take a job with a private company; once she has passed the warrior trials, she has warrior status for life, unless she is discharged for some reason, which is rare. For a private company to be able to bribe a warrior with the promise of a lucrative civilian job is one of the forms of corruption that the prohibition against warriors working for profit was meant to prevent.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by boldilocks »

Arioch wrote:Loroi civilian females can own and run large businesses, so I'd say they have a higher status than most European peasant women of the medieval period, as the latter couldn't own or inherit property independently of their husbands in most cases.
They most likely have higher status than any european peasants, men or women, as they were all bound to the land and so could not own and run any businesses, unless you call a farm their business.
They are more like tradesmen than peasants, I'd guess. Though some of the rights the peasants "lacked" (such as the right to marry without the consent of their lord) don't really translate to loroi society.

Of course the duties and privileges of peasants varied across europe and across time, especially after the black death.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by boldilocks »

Arioch wrote:
icekatze wrote:I have to wonder if there are ever any Loroi warriors who purposefully choose to go into civilian businesses. I can imagine there might be some temptation for profit, but also I could see some cases where ineffective civilian run business might motivate some Loroi to take one for the team and try to turn things around, even if it is only indirectly benefiting the military.
Warriors may work with a private company if it's involved in strategic production (as modern military officers work as liaisons with armament and aerospace companies, or to help manage a private company that has been nationalized for some reason), but individual warriors don't usually get to decide where they are posted, so these are not assignments a warrior can purposefully choose. A Loroi warrior can't simply choose to retire from the military and take a job with a private company; once she has passed the warrior trials, she has warrior status for life, unless she is discharged for some reason, which is rare. For a private company to be able to bribe a warrior with the promise of a lucrative civilian job is one of the forms of corruption that the prohibition against warriors working for profit was meant to prevent.
What could be gained from bribing a warrior? I assume one of the higher brass might have control over production contracts.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

boldilocks wrote:What could be gained from bribing a warrior? I assume one of the higher brass might have control over production contracts.
The "higher brass" are warriors too. As are pretty much all government and police. The idea is to prevent both bribery by civilians and extortion of civilians by warriors, both on large and small scales, at all levels. Corruption is one of the biggest problems in authoritarian regimes.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Jericho »

boldilocks wrote:
Arioch wrote:Loroi civilian females can own and run large businesses, so I'd say they have a higher status than most European peasant women of the medieval period, as the latter couldn't own or inherit property independently of their husbands in most cases.
They most likely have higher status than any european peasants, men or women, as they were all bound to the land and so could not own and run any businesses, unless you call a farm their business.
They are more like tradesmen than peasants, I'd guess. Though some of the rights the peasants "lacked" (such as the right to marry without the consent of their lord) don't really translate to loroi society.

Of course the duties and privileges of peasants varied across europe and across time, especially after the black death.
Farms were certainly a business and if you owned your own land you were also expected to be conscriptet and fight in wars which is another reason serfdom became more prevalent in the middle ages as poorer peasants agreed to it to avoid conscription and certain taxes. This is also a big reason why women for example were the last choice when inheriting property as they were seen as unfit to take on the social responsibility expected of your class. I think we should be clear to make a distinction between a peasant and a serf, one of them owns their own land and the other is owned by a lord.

The big difference between Loroi caste system and european fuedalism apart from gender roles seems to be that feudal systems in europe had five different classes of people and military service is based on property ownership wheres the loroi only have three classes of people (males being counted as their own class for the sake of argument) and property ownership does not seem to be the defining feature of your military status. It's hard to make an accurate comparison when the workers and warriors can make up an equivalent of two or three classes at ones in the loroi system. The only class that they don't seem to be able to cover is the clergy but that is probably handled by the males of their species.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Jericho »



Speaking of corruption and bribery. Isn't telepathy a natural deterrant towards such behaviour? A Loroi ruler need not worry about loyalty from her peers (as much as a human would) as they would be very open about their position to begin with. This could actually create a much more benevolent dictatorship than anything we could manage as the ruler could spend more treasure on her subjects than her keys to power.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by boldilocks »

Jericho wrote: Farms were certainly a business and if you owned your own land you were also expected to be conscriptet and fight in wars which is another reason serfdom became more prevalent in the middle ages as poorer peasants agreed to it to avoid conscription and certain taxes.
Peasants didn't own the land, though, at least that wasn't the norm in medieval society. They rented/tenured it from the lord or from a bishop.
Jericho wrote:This is also a big reason why women for example were the last choice when inheriting property as they were seen as unfit to take on the social responsibility expected of your class. I think we should be clear to make a distinction between a peasant and a serf, one of them owns their own land and the other is owned by a lord.
I believe you're thinking of either a free-tenant or a franklin rather than peasant here, as serf is a subgroup of peasant. But even the free-tenants were still subject to and paid rent to their lords. (Although in the same way I suppose you could say that all loroi are subject to and pay "rent" to their governments)
Jericho wrote:The big difference between Loroi caste system and european fuedalism apart from gender roles seems to be that feudal systems in europe had five different classes of people and military service is based on property ownership wheres the loroi only have three classes of people (males being counted as their own class for the sake of argument) and property ownership does not seem to be the defining feature of your military status. It's hard to make an accurate comparison when the workers and warriors can make up an equivalent of two or three classes at ones in the loroi system. The only class that they don't seem to be able to cover is the clergy but that is probably handled by the males of their species.
The feudal systems of medieval europe are rather disparate so it's difficult to compare with a more "defined" system. If we think of the clergy as a class of scholars and scientists, which was their biggest economic function in medieval europe, then I guess we have something to compare to. Is science handled by the military or civilian sector of the economy, or is it spread all over?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Jericho »

boldilocks wrote:
Jericho wrote: Farms were certainly a business and if you owned your own land you were also expected to be conscriptet and fight in wars which is another reason serfdom became more prevalent in the middle ages as poorer peasants agreed to it to avoid conscription and certain taxes.
Peasants didn't own the land, though, at least that wasn't the norm in medieval society. They rented/tenured it from the lord or from a bishop.
Jericho wrote:This is also a big reason why women for example were the last choice when inheriting property as they were seen as unfit to take on the social responsibility expected of your class. I think we should be clear to make a distinction between a peasant and a serf, one of them owns their own land and the other is owned by a lord.
I believe you're thinking of either a free-tenant or a franklin rather than peasant here, as serf is a subgroup of peasant. But even the free-tenants were still subject to and paid rent to their lords. (Although in the same way I suppose you could say that all loroi are subject to and pay "rent" to their governments)
I probably mispoke a bit here but i don't think i argued against freeholders paying taxes or rents. What distinguishes them is the social expectations and fees they have to pay and obey. And i'm well aware that the ratio of freeholders to serfs differed between regions in europe (in fact norway and sweden are the only nations whose land was largely owned by freeholders as opposed to the church or nobility that i know of) however that doesn't mean that they didn't exist in the rest of europe as well and they shouldn't be lumped together with serfs because they had a very different status in society.
boldilocks wrote:
Jericho wrote:The big difference between Loroi caste system and european fuedalism apart from gender roles seems to be that feudal systems in europe had five different classes of people and military service is based on property ownership wheres the loroi only have three classes of people (males being counted as their own class for the sake of argument) and property ownership does not seem to be the defining feature of your military status. It's hard to make an accurate comparison when the workers and warriors can make up an equivalent of two or three classes at ones in the loroi system. The only class that they don't seem to be able to cover is the clergy but that is probably handled by the males of their species.
The feudal systems of medieval europe are rather disparate so it's difficult to compare with a more "defined" system. If we think of the clergy as a class of scholars and scientists, which was their biggest economic function in medieval europe, then I guess we have something to compare to. Is science handled by the military or civilian sector of the economy, or is it spread all over?
In modern times science is involved in every sector of the economy but in medieval times it was almost exclusivily the church that preserved and advanced our understanding of the world. And in some cases supressed it.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Jericho »

Arioch wrote:Such statistics as I have are listed in the particle beam weapon table alongside the other combatants' versions here:
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/weapo ... icle_beams

It's a large weapon that does superior damage to the Loroi/Delrias heavy version at short range, but is ineffective beyond 30 Mm, and has a low rate of fire which is further hampered by the power limitations of the older heavy cruisers on which it was hurriedly mounted.
This is a question that popped up when i reread that page.

Was the Loroi/Delrias beam weapon always better at penetrating armor or did they modify it after the war began? How did the Loroi fare before they got hands on plasma weapons? Tactically speaking that is. The majority of the war they must have relied on particle beam weapons that doesn't look half as impressive as the pulse cannon. Losses must have been much higher.

This also raises the question if it's because of historian weapons that the loroi were able to turn back the Umiak or if it's Greywinds reforms that had the most effect? Or will this perhaps be adressed in the comic?
Last edited by Jericho on Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Jericho wrote:Was the Loroi/Delrias beam beam weapon always better at penetrating armor or did they modify it after the war began?
The blaster hasn't changed much since the start of the war; it's a comparatively old weapon.
Jericho wrote:How did the Loroi fare before they got hands on plasma weapons? Tactically speaking that is. The majority of the war they must have relied on particle beam weapons that doesn't look half as impressive as the pulse cannon. Losses must have been much higher.
The Loroi heavy blasters still had a significant range advantage over the Umiak SR plasma focus in use at the start of the war, but the early Loroi battle lines were slow (with a core of Catapult heavy carriers and Fauchard-class heavy battleships, which were sort of smaller versions of Skymaster) and got beat up pretty badly in the early battles. During the first siege of Seren, the core of the Loroi fleets mostly consisted of Halberd fast battleships, the large Starblade-class heavy cruisers, and a variety of older hybrid cruiser/carrier classes. The Loroi did pretty well with more mobile tactics and faster ships until the Umiak introduced the longer-ranged MR plasma focus around the time of the offensive into Historian space, which competed on more even terms with the Loroi blasters.
Jericho wrote:This also raises the question if it's because of historian weapons that the loroi were able to turn back the Umiak or if it's Greywinds reforms that had the most effect? Or will this perhaps be adressed in the comic?
There were many factors in play, and the Loroi came within a hair's breadth of collapse, so it's hard to point to one as decisive. Sunfall's key victories in 2140-1 were won fighting mostly with units that had not yet received new plasma weaponry, and were fought too soon after Greywind's accession for her reforms to have had a large impact, but the Loroi would not have been able to go on the offensive in 2144 without lots of new ships (thanks to the reforms) armed with new weaponry (thanks to the Historian tech exchange).

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Werra »

A question about music. The Loroi commonly only listen to live performances and telepathy is a large part of that. How good are Loroi components at evoking feelings with music alone? What would a Loroi audience think of something like "Morning Mood"?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Werra wrote:A question about music. The Loroi commonly only listen to live performances and telepathy is a large part of that. How good are Loroi components at evoking feelings with music alone? What would a Loroi audience think of something like "Morning Mood"?
That particular piece of music sounds a bit corny to me, probably because I've heard it a few too many times as a background for Saturday morning cartoons. But there are other passages from Peer Gynt that are among my favorite classical music pieces.

In the course of watching lots of baby videos (as one does), I noticed the strong tendency of young children to impulsively dance when they hear music. Some of these are very young babies, some so young that they've probably never even seen other people dancing. I also noticed babies reacting emotionally to "sad" and "happy" tunes, without any external context to the subject of the music. Although I think a large part of our interest in music is cultural, I get the feeling that some of it is just hard-wired in us. I think music was a key component in preliterate storytelling (ancient human tales being mainly sung, tune and rhyme being an aid to memory), and I think our storytelling is a huge part of what informs who we are.

I don't think Loroi music has the same roots in storytelling, and so I don't think they are quite as plugged in emotionally to certain musical cues the way that we are.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Roeben »

I don't think Loroi music has the same roots in storytelling, and so I don't think they are quite as plugged in emotionally to certain musical cues the way that we are.
Are you implying that they would for example, feel an emotional connection to marches or "wardrums", and not so much about your average human classical composition?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Roeben wrote:
I don't think Loroi music has the same roots in storytelling, and so I don't think they are quite as plugged in emotionally to certain musical cues the way that we are.
Are you implying that they would for example, feel an emotional connection to marches or "wardrums", and not so much about your average human classical composition?
Maybe. I'm not sure I would be that specific; not all classical music is story-based, and not all story-based music is classical, but both use musical cues which humans are conditioned to recognize and which aliens might not. Reactions would be individual; they might appreciate the music on an aesthetic level (which might also be emotional), but it probably wouldn't make pictures appear in their heads the way it sometimes does for us.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Zorg56 »

Is this a common fruit?
Image

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Krulle »

May just be a grape-like cluster of berries....
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Dorfington »

Looks more like an alien avocado.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Zarya »

On the plate before him you see one cut in half.
Looks like a Scotch Egg, although the minced meat is green.

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