Page 97

Discussion regarding the Outsider webcomic, science, technology and science fiction.

Moderator: Outsider Moderators

Michael
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:51 pm
Location: England

Re: Page 97

Post by Michael »

Grayhome wrote:
It's hard to plan an invasion when you're reacting to the deployments of a superior force.
If they hadn't counter-attacked through Morat -and Tithric territories, they likely would have been defeated by the time the Outsider story began.
And had the Loroi been clever enough to make the Morat and the Tithric into allies they would have won by the time the Outsider story began. The Loroi are not asking for friendship from their neighbors, they are demanding slaves. That has a tendency to provoke a negative reaction in a neutral nation, especially when they note that the Loroi have been losing the war for 25 years. BADLY.
Both outcomes involve the story ending before it begins. This makes for a very boring story, therefore both arguments are null and void....big smiles all round :D
CJ Miller: How many millions must be banned before we stop having pointless arguments on the Internet?
fredgiblet: ALL OF THEM! Our banhammers will blot out the sun!
CptWinters: Then we will troll in the shade.!
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
GeoModder
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Page 97

Post by GeoModder »

Mjolnir wrote:
Grayhome wrote:And had the Loroi been clever enough to make the Morat and the Tithric into allies they would have won by the time the Outsider story began. The Loroi are not asking for friendship from their neighbors, they are demanding slaves.
The other members of the Loroi Union are not slaves. The Golim are the closest to such a thing, but not through any deliberate action by the Loroi, and the Loroi have actually taken steps to maintain a Golim population not influenced by Loroi telepathy...not really in character for your arrogant bloodthirsty slavers. It sounds like the Morat sided with the Umiak only when it looked like they were about to win the war (which would in fact have happened if the Historians hadn't intervened), and the Loroi actually tried a diplomatic approach with the Tithric first, but the Tithric government stalled while apparently aiding the Umiak, who were performing mass exterminations of Loroi on captured colony worlds. They aren't perfect neighbors, but your description of them seems wildly inaccurate.
What Mjolnir says. ;)

Grayhome wrote:They've been at a stalemate overall, with some losses and some gains. Things don't look good, but if they were losing badly, they wouldn't still be around after 25 years. "Losing badly" isn't something you can sustain for decades.
If I interpreted the little maps in history of the war section correctly, Azimol is a former Morat system. Wonder if that means the Loroi now have an extensive occupied Morat population in their empire.
Also, question on the star colors on those maps: Arioch, do those colors more or less depict the spectrum of those stars? If so, it looks like Donsil and Eiren Sipis are OB stars.
Image

User avatar
Trantor
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:52 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Page 97

Post by Trantor »

Grayhome wrote:The society the Loroi have seems to be a cross between Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, and the Sith empire.
Sounds pretty much like the current US of A. scnr. :mrgreen:
Grayhome wrote:I do not expect an intelligent decision out of the Loroi, especially after we have witnessed Stillstorm's inept handling of first contact with Humanity. She tortured the frigging ambassador to a neutral power she met all of five minutes ago and knows nothing about in a time of war when her nation is losing said war.
Hm. I more or less agree with you that about how the Loroi would handle us in general; maybe not as slaves, but surely we would be nothing more than wards.
But i wouldn´t go so far and blame Stillstorm for what she did - it is war after all, and she had her reasons.
Grayhome wrote:The Loroi need every ally they can get, but they do not seem willing offer anything to would be allies other than the old "serve us and you get to live" reward that tyrannies like to hand out as payment for enslaving smaller and weaker nations.
And that´s why it is good to have other players as well in this theater. ;)
sapere aude.

User avatar
Grayhome
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:11 am

Re: Page 97

Post by Grayhome »

The Loroi lost when they grew complacent and allowed the Umiak to overrun and destroy their veteran forces in the beginning of the war.

The Loroi lost when they forced the Morat to ally with the Umiak to expel their invasion. Any and all Morat systems claimed or destroyed by Loroi are not particularly relevant, the Morat are not the Umiak and the Umiak could care less about what happens to their slaves. Destroying the Morat's war industry does not halt the Umiak's ability to wage war, it does however help the Umiak further influence their now weakened Morat ally.

The Loroi Lost when they made an enemy in the Tithric they did not need and obliterated civilian population centers. No one will ever surrender to the Loroi ever again, all wars will be a matter of survival vs extinction. Again, this action does not harm the Umiak's ability to wage war in the slightest, it does help their cause by giving the Umiak ammunition for their propaganda machine. If anyone does not understand the value of this then there are no words I say that can influence you in regards to anything. This action was, in my opinion, the most harmful to the Loroi war effort of the entire war.

The Loroi lost when they fell into the obvious trap the Umiak laid for them when the Loroi retook the Umiak held worlds and launched a spear into Umiak territory which then got cut off and obliterated. That entire section of the war was designed by the Umiak to lure the Loroi in, give them emotional distress caused by witnessing the fate of their colonies, and then cut them to bloody ribbons when the Loroi military overextended themselves. A masterful plan, ruthless, cold and logical; how deliciously Umiak ... Arioch, well done.

The Loroi have been losing this war by inches from the beginning. Every move the Loroi military have made was according to the Umiak's designs and desires.

The Loroi are excellent fighters as Arioch has made very clear to us. When allowed to use their psionic and telepathic advantages to full effect they are unparalleled in the art of war. And that is why since the very beginning of this conflict the Umiak have not allowed the Loroi to use their psionic abilities to their full extent.
Both outcomes involve the story ending before it begins. This makes for a very boring story, therefore both arguments are null and void....big smiles all round :D
I know right? This is some epic storytelling right here.

User avatar
Grayhome
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:11 am

Re: Page 97

Post by Grayhome »

The other members of the Loroi Union are not slaves. The Golim are the closest to such a thing, but not through any deliberate action by the Loroi, and the Loroi have actually taken steps to maintain a Golim population not influenced by Loroi telepathy
You and I seem to have differing ideas of what slavery constitutes then.

Do the other members of the Union have a military that can protect them and enforce their will? No they do not.

Do the other members of the Union have a say in what happens in the Union, in respects to seats on the Diadem council and who becomes the Emperor? No they do not and no they can not.

Can the other members of the Union expand to other colonies? No they can not (with the exception of the Neridi).

The Golim are the very definition of slaves, that their slavery is pleasant does not change anything, in fact it makes their enslavement seem all the more heinous. They are mind shackled slaves with a tiny portion of their population allowed freedom of will due mainly to Loroi guilt, and if anyone thinks that the Golim, a race that evolved on a high gravity world which can survive in hostile environments just happens to be highly vulnerable to an artificially created, telepathic race of fungus women who were grown in a laboratory test tube for slavery and food, then you should read more science fiction. There was a time before Loroi recorded history when so called "Gods" traveled the stars in Death Stars a little genetic tampering would not be nearly as difficult.

All augmentations Arioch has thus far stated which belong to the Loroi are things I would program into a slave race, save psionics. You make them more robust and healthier so you do not have to waste valuable money treating illnesses. Make them eat less so you do not have to waste money feeding them. Lower core body temp and lower life support requirements for the Loroi and you can crank down the life support and air in their slave pins. Weaken the males because the males are crazy, highly intelligent, creative, aggressive and persuasive (guess which one I believe Captain Jardin will embody).

Loroi psionics, I believe, is a mutation brought on by too much augmentation and too many species modifications, or perhaps due to exposure to a random element. I certainly do not believe those who had a hand in creating the Loroi were benevolent or that they meant for the Loroi to have those abilities.

Loving the responses, btw :twisted:

User avatar
JeroOfBaconGrease
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:33 am
Location: Somewhere in Northwest Oregon

Re: Page 97

Post by JeroOfBaconGrease »

In the context of the meaning of slavery:

Dictionary.com refers to a slave as:
1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.
2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person.

It gave others, but they weren't relative to the topic at hand. Can we describe the Loroi Union non-partner member races (I refer to them as Non-Partner Races since the Loroi's wishes trump all other members.) as meeting the the above definitions. Well, if they are under the direct influence of Loroi psionic powers then yes, the second definition's conditions are met so long as said races collective will is being subverted. However, you could say that due to the Loroi subjugating all non-partner races' economic capacities to fuel their war effort you could describe that as an enslaving influence. Really, they're as free as they want to believe they are, and as enslaved as they believe they are. Good old Obi-Wan's comment about point of view comes to mind, even if it was Lucas coming up with a clever solution for inconsistency.
There ARE FOUR Lights!

Absalom
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:33 am

Re: Page 97

Post by Absalom »

Trantor wrote:
Grayhome wrote:The society the Loroi have seems to be a cross between Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, and the Sith empire.
Sounds pretty much like the current US of A. scnr. :mrgreen:
You over-estimate our organization, for the moment all we can agree on is to very thoroughly kill anyone who attacks us. ;)
Grayhome wrote:The Loroi lost when they grew complacent and allowed the Umiak to overrun and destroy their veteran forces in the beginning of the war.

The Loroi lost when they forced the Morat to ally with the Umiak to expel their invasion. Any and all Morat systems claimed or destroyed by Loroi are not particularly relevant, the Morat are not the Umiak and the Umiak could care less about what happens to their slaves. Destroying the Morat's war industry does not halt the Umiak's ability to wage war, it does however help the Umiak further influence their now weakened Morat ally.

The Loroi Lost when they made an enemy in the Tithric they did not need and obliterated civilian population centers. No one will ever surrender to the Loroi ever again, all wars will be a matter of survival vs extinction. Again, this action does not harm the Umiak's ability to wage war in the slightest, it does help their cause by giving the Umiak ammunition for their propaganda machine. If anyone does not understand the value of this then there are no words I say that can influence you in regards to anything. This action was, in my opinion, the most harmful to the Loroi war effort of the entire war.

The Loroi lost when they fell into the obvious trap the Umiak laid for them when the Loroi retook the Umiak held worlds and launched a spear into Umiak territory which then got cut off and obliterated. That entire section of the war was designed by the Umiak to lure the Loroi in, give them emotional distress caused by witnessing the fate of their colonies, and then cut them to bloody ribbons when the Loroi military overextended themselves. A masterful plan, ruthless, cold and logical; how deliciously Umiak ... Arioch, well done.

The Loroi have been losing this war by inches from the beginning. Every move the Loroi military have made was according to the Umiak's designs and desires.

The Loroi are excellent fighters as Arioch has made very clear to us. When allowed to use their psionic and telepathic advantages to full effect they are unparalleled in the art of war. And that is why since the very beginning of this conflict the Umiak have not allowed the Loroi to use their psionic abilities to their full extent.
You imply much, but have evidence for exceedingly little. How LOROI of you.
Grayhome wrote:Can the other members of the Union expand to other colonies? No they can not (with the exception of the Neridi).
You misquote your evidence, the Neridi HAVE expanded, the others HAVE NOT. No reason is given. The Loroi are quite simply xenophobes, much like Europe & the US were. How do the Delrias under the Loroi differ from the native tribes under the US in the 1800s? Simple, THEY DON'T. Yet for the most part, the tribes (especially the Apache & other western tribes) weren't slaves.
Grayhome wrote:The Golim are the very definition of slaves, that their slavery is pleasant does not change anything, in fact it makes their enslavement seem all the more heinous. They are mind shackled slaves with a tiny portion of their population allowed freedom of will due mainly to Loroi guilt, and if anyone thinks that the Golim, a race that evolved on a high gravity world which can survive in hostile environments just happens to be highly vulnerable to an artificially created, telepathic race of fungus women who were grown in a laboratory test tube for slavery and food, then you should read more science fiction.
The Golim are druggies. The Loroi are embarrassed about the relationship, because it's the equivalent of wetting the bed.

The final nail in the coffin is the Arekka. The Arekka cannot be accurately described as slaves, the Arekka are OCCUPIED. The Arekka aren't equivalent to African-American slaves, they're equivalent to Palestinians and Syrians: they're under a dictatorship.
Grayhome wrote:All augmentations Arioch has thus far stated which belong to the Loroi are things I would program into a slave race, save psionics. You make them more robust and healthier so you do not have to waste valuable money treating illnesses. Make them eat less so you do not have to waste money feeding them. Lower core body temp and lower life support requirements for the Loroi and you can crank down the life support and air in their slave pins.
It depends on your time-view. If you look at it over the short term you give these traits to your slaves because it makes it easier to keep them; if you look at the long-view then you give them to yourselves, because they give you an inherit advantage over all local species.
Grayhome wrote:Weaken the males because the males are crazy, highly intelligent, creative, aggressive and persuasive (guess which one I believe Captain Jardin will embody).
This, in comparison, is basically a design decision for a genetic engineer. At any rate, the traits that you've mentioned can all be undermined if you're willing to do genetic engineering, and therefor don't mean anything.

User avatar
GeoModder
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Page 97

Post by GeoModder »

Grayhome wrote:Do the other members of the Union have a military that can protect them and enforce their will? No they do not.
Both the Nissek and Historians do.
Grayhome wrote:Do the other members of the Union have a say in what happens in the Union, in respects to seats on the Diadem council and who becomes the Emperor? No they do not and no they can not.
Doesn't look to me as the Loroi have a say on what happens in the Hegemony and Historian territory.
Grayhome wrote:Can the other members of the Union expand to other colonies? No they can not (with the exception of the Neridi).
The Neridi (but you mentioned those already) and the Pipolsid. Most of the other members were at one time or the other enemies of the Loroi and have been conquered or occupied.
Actually, the latter are a good example of how Loroi treat their former enemies. ;)
Image

Wintermute
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Page 97

Post by Wintermute »

Just read through all the pages again. Man Outsider is good! Definitely a labor of love. Consistent quality, consistent narrative, consistent characters. I just wanted to say that.

Can't wait for the next page.

Edit: Also Geomodder your avatar depresses the hell out of me.

User avatar
Grayhome
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:11 am

Re: Page 97

Post by Grayhome »

Both the Nissek and Historians do.
The Nissek and the Historians are not members of the Loroi Union, they are members of the Loroi Alliance. The difference between those two institutions is that the union is composed of races the Loroi have either conquered or who have surrendered their liberties in exchange for the security the Loroi have promised them. The Alliance is an organization composed of the Loroi Union, the Historians and the Nissek Hegemony each are separate powers who have allied with each other for the purpose of protecting themselves against Umiak aggression.
Doesn't look to me as the Loroi have a say on what happens in the Hegemony and Historian territory.
Yes, you are correct, the Loroi have no say in the politics of the Nissek Hegemony and the Historians because the Loroi are not in control of either the Nissek or the Historian societies.
You imply much, but have evidence for exceedingly little. How LOROI of you.
It's all there in the History of the war. Reread the page with my words in mind and make the decision for yourselves, to me it looks like the Umiak have been playing the Loroi from the very beginning of the war with the skill of a master.
The Golim are druggies. The Loroi are embarrassed about the relationship, because it's the equivalent of wetting the bed.

The final nail in the coffin is the Arekka. The Arekka cannot be accurately described as slaves, the Arekka are OCCUPIED. The Arekka aren't equivalent to African-American slaves, they're equivalent to Palestinians and Syrians: they're under a dictatorship.
Concerning the Golim, an excellent way to make a person your slave is to make that slavery pleasurable. Drugs and drink were common ways for dictators to maintain control of their underclasses in ye olden days of yore, and still are, come to think of it. Anyone for some poppy?
Concerning the Arekka (of whom I am a fan of btw) they have a Loroi military force on the ground and operate under severe restrictions. The Arekka people live under a government that operates through the threat of violence and the use of violence. This is not freedom. When someone controls every aspect of your life including when to end that life then it is (to me at least) slavery.
It depends on your time-view. If you look at it over the short term you give these traits to your slaves because it makes it easier to keep them; if you look at the long-view then you give them to yourselves, because they give you an inherit advantage over all local species.
Yes you are right, and I am sure that those who created the Loroi, Barsam and Neridi had a selection of far more useful and extensive augmentations and species modifications than they gave to their slaves. :)
This, in comparison, is basically a design decision for a genetic engineer. At any rate, the traits that you've mentioned can all be undermined if you're willing to do genetic engineering, and therefor don't mean anything.
True, but remember your looking to make the slaves profitable and extensive genetic modification would cost more, I suspect it was very possible to make the males more docile but was deemed more advantageous in the long run to simply remove them from the equation altogether. The augmentations the Soia engineered all seem tapered to making the subject easier to maintain in the economic sense and more profitable in the long run.
Dictionary.com refers to a slave as:
1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.
2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person.
From what I have been able to determine from Arioch's writings, the Loroi consider all other races in the galaxy to be their servants, either conquered or waiting to be conquered. Also, the Loroi regularly practice psionic mind muckery to dominate or influence others. Your definition seems to prove my points very well, thank you for it.

User avatar
GeoModder
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Page 97

Post by GeoModder »

Wintermute wrote:Edit: Also Geomodder your avatar depresses the hell out of me.
Such are the spoils of war. :(
(I'm awaiting a pic where Jardin has a violent stomach reaction due to his Loroi food experimenting :ugeek: )
Grayhome wrote:The Nissek and the Historians are not members of the Loroi Union, they are members of the Loroi Alliance. The difference between those two institutions is that the union is composed of races the Loroi have either conquered or who have surrendered their liberties in exchange for the security the Loroi have promised them. The Alliance is an organization composed of the Loroi Union, the Historians and the Nissek Hegemony each are separate powers who have allied with each other for the purpose of protecting themselves against Umiak aggression.
You got me there.
Grayhome wrote:It's all there in the History of the war. Reread the page with my words in mind and make the decision for yourselves, to me it looks like the Umiak have been playing the Loroi from the very beginning of the war with the skill of a master.
Mmm, not quite. It's simply the fact the Umiak can keep on sending waves of warfleets one after the other. During the Semoset campaign the Loroi cut-off most likely happened because there were Umiak fleets taking another route to the Loroi border. For all we know those underway fleets were barely warned in advance of the Loroi spearhead in Nelain. The whole History of the War reads to me as the Umiak pounding from all directions they can on their enemy. Its simply impossible for the Umiak along such a huge front to coordinate fleet movements.
Grayhome wrote:Concerning the Golim, an excellent way to make a person your slave is to make that slavery pleasurable. Drugs and drink were common ways for dictators to maintain control of their underclasses in ye olden days of yore, and still are, come to think of it. Anyone for some poppy?
Concerning the Arekka (of whom I am a fan of btw) they have a Loroi military force on the ground and operate under severe restrictions. The Arekka people live under a government that operates through the threat of violence and the use of violence. This is not freedom. When someone controls every aspect of your life including when to end that life then it is (to me at least) slavery.
The Loroi didn't make the Golim susceptible to their telepathic abilities. Its a situation they found. But admittedly, they partially exploited it. But I'm also pretty sure you won't find many Loroi on Golim-Chei. Circumstances there are simply too hostile to them. The off-world Golim on the other hand are free bait so to speak.
For the Arekka, the Germans between the end of WWII and the fall of the Soviet Union as comparison? ;)
Grayhome wrote:From what I have been able to determine from Arioch's writings, the Loroi consider all other races in the galaxy to be their servants, either conquered or waiting to be conquered. Also, the Loroi regularly practice psionic mind muckery to dominate or influence others. Your definition seems to prove my points very well, thank you for it.
To me it more looks like the Loroi consider their alien contacts' martial capabilities inferior unless proven otherwise. If there was a total imperial dictatorship in effect, I don't think alien contractors would get a benefit for manufacturing over their Loroi counterparts. Its just so that (most of) current Loroi society is heavily stratified, and the Loroi military happen to be the best among the races that compose the Union. Other races' abilities are appearantly quite recognized and appreciated (see the Neridi and Pipolsid).
Image

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Page 97

Post by Arioch »

A few points of information related to the discussion:
  • The Loroi tend to be isolationist more than expansionist, and most of their interstellar expansions have come as an unexpected by-product of defeating someone who attacked them first. The only interstellar war that the Loroi deliberately started was the Third Mannadi War (and that after the Mannadi had started the first two). In all other cases, it was the other side that declared war first... though in some cases such as the Tithric, the Loroi had taken provocative action beforehand. It's true that the Loroi are arrogant and consider themselves superior (a natural result of always winning), but they are more Spartan than Roman in the sense that they are usually content with the status quo rather than actively seeking expansion.

    The peacetime expansion into the Seren sector under Emperor Eighth Dawn is the notable exception to this rule.
  • The Loroi did not actually attack the Morat in 2135, but instead launched an attack on Umiak positions through Morat territory. It was certainly an illegal incursion, but they weren't invading Morat planets or anything like that.
  • Since the Loroi themselves live under a military dictatorship, the average Loroi individual doesn't have any more say in government than an individual of a Union member species. Actually, a typical non-Loroi Union member individual has a lot more say in their local government than a Loroi typical individual does.
  • Regarding expansion of non-Loroi Union races: colonial franchises are granted by the Union Assembly (which is Loroi-dominated), so requests from Loroi political friends (Neridi, Barsam, Pipolsid) are granted, while requests from Loroi political enemies (Arekka, Delrias, Mannadi) are denied. The Neridi have been the most prolific of the colonizers, but the Barsam have been at work in this area as well. The Pipolsid mostly set up new colonies in the oceans of worlds already inhabited by other races.
  • Azimol was not originally a Morat system, but it was under occupation by Morat forces at the start of the Loroi Semoset offensive.

User avatar
Grayhome
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:11 am

Re: Page 97

Post by Grayhome »

This is most informative Arioch thank you.

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Page 97

Post by Arioch »

GeoModder wrote: Such are the spoils of war.
"Spoils of war" by way means goods obtained by looting. I think you may have meant something else.

User avatar
manticore7
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:09 am
Location: Milpitas CA

Re: Page 97

Post by manticore7 »

whats Loroi foreign Policy like during peace time? If the TCA had encountered the Loroi at peace would the Humans be forced to join the Loroi Union?
"Worlds governed by artificial intelligence often learned a hard lesson, Logic doesn't care"
Andromeda season 2 episode 6 All too Human

Tamren
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:16 am

Re: Page 97

Post by Tamren »

Arioch wrote:
GeoModder wrote: Such are the spoils of war.
"Spoils of war" by way means goods obtained by looting. I think you may have meant something else.
"Wages of sin" maybe?

Solemn
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:35 am

Re: Page 97

Post by Solemn »

Tamren wrote:
Arioch wrote:
GeoModder wrote: Such are the spoils of war.
"Spoils of war" by way means goods obtained by looting. I think you may have meant something else.
"Wages of sin" maybe?
"Fortunes of war," I should think.

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Page 97

Post by Arioch »

manticore7 wrote:If the TCA had encountered the Loroi at peace would the Humans be forced to join the Loroi Union?
No.

The anti-neutrality policy did not exist before the war, but Humanity would not be required to join the Union in any event. The wartime policy is specific to the current conflict and stipulates only that failure to declare war on the Umiak constitutes casus belli against the Loroi.

fredgiblet
Moderator
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:02 pm

Re: Page 97

Post by fredgiblet »

Grayhome wrote:The Loroi lost when they grew complacent and allowed the Umiak to overrun and destroy their veteran forces in the beginning of the war.
An extremely biased view of events. The Umiak launched a sudden, massive invasion. The Loroi had no way of knowing that such an invasion was planned. The Insider doesn't go into too much detail but I suspect that the Loroi thought there was a great deal more diplomatic maneuvering to be done before any sort of war would start.
The Loroi lost when they forced the Morat to ally with the Umiak to expel their invasion. Any and all Morat systems claimed or destroyed by Loroi are not particularly relevant, the Morat are not the Umiak and the Umiak could care less about what happens to their slaves. Destroying the Morat's war industry does not halt the Umiak's ability to wage war, it does however help the Umiak further influence their now weakened Morat ally.
A calculated risk. The Loroi likely did not believe they would lose such an invasion, thus leaving the Morat under THEIR control and giving the Morat the options of allowing them to pass through or fight a superior military that hadn't lost a war yet. The Loroi were over-confident, but then that was because they'd rarely, if ever, lost before.
The Loroi Lost when they made an enemy in the Tithric they did not need and obliterated civilian population centers. No one will ever surrender to the Loroi ever again, all wars will be a matter of survival vs extinction. Again, this action does not harm the Umiak's ability to wage war in the slightest, it does help their cause by giving the Umiak ammunition for their propaganda machine. If anyone does not understand the value of this then there are no words I say that can influence you in regards to anything. This action was, in my opinion, the most harmful to the Loroi war effort of the entire war.
It's amusing that you call this a loss, since if they HADN'T done this they would most likely have lost the war by this point. Their actions with the Tithric is why they are still able to fight today. Had they left the Tithric alone, or spent years trying to diplomatically bring them to heel the result could very well have been the loss of the war.

The Tithric DIDN'T surrender to the Loroi, the lesson that other races should pull from the Tithric Genocide isn't "don't surrender to the Loroi" it's "don't fuck around with the Loroi and expect them to be nice".

The actions taken against the Tithric most certainly DO harm the Umiak as the buffer zone created in the Steppes allows the Loroi to effectively defend themselves.

Regarding propaganda, I think you vastly over-value it. Unaligned races are very unlikely to encounter both species at the same time, if they are encountered first by the Umiak then they will, one way or another, join the Umiak. The only instance where I can see this being a serious issue is if both sides encounter a race that's too strong to cow at the same time. On the flip side, if the Loroi successfully execute an offensive the Umiak vassals that are aware of the genocide will take the Loroi very seriously when they say "surrender or else".

User avatar
Durabys
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:57 pm
Location: Czech republic

Re: Page 97

Post by Durabys »

Arioch wrote:
manticore7 wrote:If the TCA had encountered the Loroi at peace would the Humans be forced to join the Loroi Union?
No.

The anti-neutrality policy did not exist before the war, but Humanity would not be required to join the Union in any event. The wartime policy is specific to the current conflict and stipulates only that failure to declare war on the Umiak constitutes casus belli against the Loroi.
So if humanity declares clearly that they are joining the Loroi side and ally with them and help them with their industry and military - will the Loroi, after the war is finished, still attempt to screw us over? That is the most important question of the day, ladies and gentlmen.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. - If you wish for peace, prepare for war.

Post Reply