WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

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icekatze
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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

It is generally considered a good thing to be nice and considerate to other people. Some people take it too far by insisting that you must be polite or else, which isn't right either. But seriously, you ought not to go out of your way to be a jerk to people.

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Arioch
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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Arioch »

junk wrote:I actually find it relatively funny that loroi society seems to be more human warrior than based on mammalian societies which have similar differences in gender count. Lions come to mind fairly well actually.
The mammal species in which males collect harems of females are very different from the Loroi. First, the males are larger and stronger than the females, and are expected to fight and bully each other for the right to mate with females. Second, the male-to-female birth ratios among most such mammals are still very close to 1:1 (the birth ratio of male lions is actually higher than female lions). The difference is that once males reach adulthood, they must leave the group and fend for themselves, until such time as they are prepared to challenge the current alpha male(s). The proportion of males gradually declines as they increase in age, presumably because of higher casualty rates caused by their solo hunting lifestyle when not leading a group and due to fatalities from fighting each other.

In some regions, the leader of a lion pride is seldom a single male, but more often a coalition of up to seven cooperating males that act as a unit in competition against other coalitions. This system supports a larger number of males (with female prides usually being around 3-18 individuals).

In contrast, the Loroi males do not have to compete with each other for mates, and far from suffering higher casualty rates, instead they are carefully protected by the females.

For a good example of an alien culture based on lions, see C.J. Cherryh's Hani.

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junk
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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by junk »

Another fairly decent example I'd say of a semi idealised lion based society would be the Tarka from Sword of the stars. Admittedly the gender plays out a strongly differently that what we'd consider normal but overal makes sense from an alien standpoint.

Actual all of the species there are very well designed as far as it comes to society and how gender plays there. To the level of one of the species (alien insect hive based) having certain issues in combat operations against human crews. As their standard instinct is to kill any and all females as that would usually eliminate the longterm survival of the enemy hive.

Now imagine dealing with a crew that can have as much as 50% or even more females in it.


Out of curiosity, Arioch is there actually any species that would come close to the Loroi on earth as far as you know. I actually can't think of any since it does create fairly big issues with the gene distribution, unless loroi units tended to either directly exchange men or women.

I guess the exchange of men could make some sense.


@Trantor
Considering that the overextension of PC is only an issue in some nations I'd strongly argue with it. On top of that at least some basic level PC was required in order to actually create at least relatively balanced situations.

The bigger issue is when PC is abused into a such a way that it actually creates unbalanced situations. Brits tend to go down that road far too often lately.

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Karst45 »

In link with the Politically correct:

Why is it when someone says "with all due respect" they really mean, "kiss my ass"? (mass effect)

I had to do it! i really like that quote!

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by javcs »

Karst45 wrote:In link with the Politically correct:

Why is it when someone says "with all due respect" they really mean, "kiss my ass"? (mass effect)

I had to do it! i really like that quote!
So true.
No one can blame you for using it.

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Arioch »

junk wrote:Out of curiosity, Arioch is there actually any species that would come close to the Loroi on earth as far as you know. I actually can't think of any since it does create fairly big issues with the gene distribution, unless loroi units tended to either directly exchange men or women. I guess the exchange of men could make some sense.
The only Earth species that I know of with such high percentages of female births are insects, in particular social insects. They are similar in that females do most of the work/fighting, and that males are specialized almost exclusively for reproduction. However, the similarities break down past that point... most of the females don't reproduce, that task also being specialized to one or more "queens." And... they're just bugs, without intelligence or technology or culture.

Regarding the distribution of genes, I don't think that would be a particular problem in Loroi. First, there's no reason to assume that male and female genes are split X/Y as in Earth organisms. But even if we guess that might be case, the bearers of the male genes may be small in number, but they're very prolific and widely distributed. A Loroi female who has more than one offspring will very rarely have them by the same father.

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Absalom »

Karst45 wrote:In link with the Politically correct:

Why is it when someone says "with all due respect" they really mean, "kiss my ass"? (mass effect)
Because otherwise it's inherent in what you're saying. Also, it can actually add to the insult by implying "you don't deserve any more respect than this".

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by CptWinters »

Absalom wrote:
Karst45 wrote:In link with the Politically correct:

Why is it when someone says "with all due respect" they really mean, "kiss my ass"? (mass effect)
Because otherwise it's inherent in what you're saying. Also, it can actually add to the insult by implying "you don't deserve any more respect than this".
That was a joke.

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by discord »

well, on the subject of political correct speech, i personally find it abhorrent since it is basically a carte blanche to lie through your teeth and or avoid personal opinion, it is taking 'white lies' to stratospheric heights....did i mention i absolutely despise lies in all forms?
especially in politics, since that and media is THE places lies should be avoided at all costs, if I could i would create a law with serious(up to and including capital punishment) for lying to the public, it just might make democracy work, would probably crash the system faster though, since people seem incapable of not lying.

wizards first rule. 'nuff said.

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icekatze
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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Just because someone is being honest, doesn't mean they are telling the truth. And if you're going to be truthful about minorities and outgroups, then you need to accept that self fulfilling prophecy is a real thing that has a profound impact on people's lives. And if you want to make the world a better place, then you need to realize that overcoming bias requires real effort.

There was a time when it was common knowledge that the Earth was the center of the universe. People had no idea that their world-view was incorrect, and were not lying when they perpetuated it. If you can accept that people can speak honestly and still be wrong, then you ought to realize that people shouldn't be given a blank check to say that kind of stuff without counterpoint. Especially when it can seriously effect other people's well being.

Yes, some times people take it too far. Usually when they try to incorporate censorship into it. However, much more often I find that people who complain about Political Correctness are trying to perpetuate an immoral status quo.

Calls for capital punishment laws for people who speak contrary to your own opinions is, quite frankly, deeply disturbing.

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Trantor »

icekatze wrote:And if you want to make the world a better place, then you need to realize that overcoming bias requires real effort.
...

Yes, some times people take it too far. Usually when they try to incorporate censorship into it. However, much more often I find that people who complain about Political Correctness are trying to perpetuate an immoral status quo.
So PC is the absolute truth, everything else is just bias? 8-)

To understand phenmomenas of all kinds it is often useful to have a look onto history. More specially, on the history of origins.
Google "PC", google "DWEM", and make up a mind of your own. ;)

I grew up in a world without PC, then i saw "it" being introduced into all kinds of discussions. One interesting recurring pattern was that those PC-archpriests always had an agenda, so i for myself deeply mistrust them.
icekatze wrote:Calls for capital punishment laws for people who speak contrary to your own opinions is, quite frankly, deeply disturbing.
It´s a very sharp, two sided sword; so far you´re right.
But i can also understand discords deep frustration about politics.
sapere aude.

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icekatze
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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by icekatze »

hi hi
So PC is the absolute truth, everything else is just bias?
I believe I already addressed this question. Lets see...
Just because someone is being honest, doesn't mean they are telling the truth.
Oh, right. I did. Fancy that. I guess maybe you just assumed I was implying a double standard when I did in fact say no such thing?

I googled PC, got a bunch of stuff about personal computers. I googled Politically Correct and I got some information about how it was used sarcastically in the seventies, and how it was used as a pejorative by the right in their culture war nonsense. I googled DWEM, I got some urban dictionary results about some irrelevant insults. I don't see what any of those have to do with anything.

I suggest you try reading up a bit on Framing Effects

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Karst45 »

We are talking about President's Choice right? (disarm situation DC15 roll:d20+4 for using Humour level 2)

discord
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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by discord »

ice: not knowing the truth and actively misleading are two VERY different things, admittedly it can be difficult to see which is which from outside of the persons skull(or from the inside, considering how much double talk politicians do, it goes to reason that there is lots of double or triple think too.)
and proposing penalty for people who's job is to keep us informed so we can make informed choices actively misleading us(the public), does not seem like such a large stretch.

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Trantor »

icekatze wrote:...
I googled DWEM, I got some urban dictionary results about some irrelevant insults. I don't see what any of those have to do with anything.
Your Google is broken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_white_males

HTH.
Karst45 wrote:We are talking about President's Choice right? (disarm situation DC15 roll:d20+4 for using Humour level 2)
Humour. Rare it is these days.
sapere aude.

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Karst45 »

There plenty around, it just that people seem to seek it less than other and/or than before. (oh my god! Were all slowly becoming some old coots!)


By the way, we all come from different country/workplace/education, Don't assume someone will automatically know what your acronym mean. If i say BDI or MAFS. One will probably not know what am talking about. Even a Google search will lead to wrong result about what it is. (for those curious BDI stand for Battery Discharge Indicator and MAFS for Mass Air Flow sensor)

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by javcs »

Karst45 wrote:There plenty around, it just that people seem to seek it less than other and/or than before. (oh my god! Were all slowly becoming some old coots!)


By the way, we all come from different country/workplace/education, Don't assume someone will automatically know what your acronym mean. If i say BDI or MAFS. One will probably not know what am talking about. Even a Google search will lead to wrong result about what it is. (for those curious BDI stand for Battery Discharge Indicator and MAFS for Mass Air Flow sensor)
Eh ... I'd say that technical acronyms are more likely to be understandable, at least, when used in context.

But yeah. We are turning old. Or at least feel like we are. I think the humor issue is that 'our' (loosely speaking) senses of humor, while possibly more mainstream when we were younger, has since slipped out of the mainstream.
In other words, kids these days have a crap sense of humor (from our various perspectives).

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by Voitan »

What does this have to do with the concept characters page?

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icekatze
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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

I saw the page about Dead White Males. What I failed to see was how it is relevant to this discussion, given the context of your argument. Yes, people can be insulting, and yes, sometimes they insult majority groups instead of minority groups. Just because someone is in a majority group doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be nice to them.

Politically Correct: Language, ideas, policies and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, religious beliefs or ideologies, disability and age related contexts.

In other words, don't be a dick.

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Re: WIP - concept characters page (spoilers ??)

Post by javcs »

Voitan wrote:What does this have to do with the concept characters page?
Thread drift. It happens. You'll get used to it.
icekatze wrote:In other words, don't be a dick.
Unfortunately, what does or does not constitute "being a dick" can, to an extent, depend upon one's perspective.

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