Loroi abilities, and Loroi Judo

[Hālian]

There really is something like this in the US? Very interesting, but please tell me that they are a little bit more historically accurate than, for example, the history channel.

I believe the Military Channel is created by the same people who did the History Channel.

Indeed.

[saint of m]

There really is something like this in the US? Very interesting, but please tell me that they are a little bit more historically accurate than, for example, the history channel.

I believe the Military Channel is created by the same people who did the History Channel.

Indeed.

Yeah, it's not hard to believe a number of Chanels are owned by the same company. In this case, it focuses more on the armaments and the soldiers, although history is penned by the person who out bludgeoned the other to death, so it may very.

[daelyte]

It seems to me that the appeal of early gunpowder weapons was as much for their psychological impact (this is my BOOMSTICK!) as for their actual effectiveness as weapons.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket#Europe:
"By the 16th century the handheld firearm became commonplace, replacing the crossbow and longbow in all advanced armies, and known as the arquebus."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arquebus#Archery:
"An arquebusier loses less of his battlefield effectiveness than an archer or crossbowman when he loses strength due to fatigue, malnutrition or sickness."

"It was also possible to load an arquebus (and indeed any smoothbore gun) with small shot rather than a single ball. Small shot did not pack the same punch as a single round ball but the shot could hit and wound multiple enemies."

IMO, the appeal of the arquebus was as an anti-pikeman weapon. Accuracy is less of a problem when shooting at tightly packed infantry formations at close range, especially when you get splash damage.

Muskets didn't replace pikes until the advent of the bayonet, which is still sometimes used. (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0bd_1249524865)

Armored cavalry also went on into ww1 (see Cuirassier), until they were replaced by armored fighting vehicles such as tanks.

[ed_montague]

Arguably, cavalry was already doomed to oblivion before World War I. Even ignoring the reality of trench warfare, cavalry charges were decreasing in efficiency with the invention of more accurate firearms.

[saint of m]

Arguably, cavalry was already doomed to oblivion before World War I. Even ignoring the reality of trench warfare, cavalry charges were decreasing in efficiency with the invention of more accurate firearms.

Guns, guns that can fire more then one round, machine guns, cannons, tanks, land mines, and oh


Poison gas. Nothing says fun like chlorine gas!

[bunnyboy]

Battle of Bataan (January 16, 1942): US 26th Cavalry Regiment makes a mounted pistol charge against Japanese positions, the last mounted charge in battle by conventional United States troops.
Eastern Front, World War II, (August 24, 1942): The last cavalry charge against a regular enemy army of Italian history happened in Izbušenskij. It was mounted against a Soviet artillery position along the River Don by 700 men of the Italian 3rd 'Savoia' Cavalry Regiment. This is often reported as "the last successful cavalry charge in history".
Battle of Poloj (October 17, 1942): The last charge of an Italian horse regiment during WWII. It was executed in Yugoslavia by the 14th Light Cavalry Regiment "Cavalleggeri di Alessandria" versus Communist partisans.
Battle of Borujsko (Schönfeld in German) was the last charge of the Polish 1st Cavalry Brigade just before the end of WWII. On March 1, 1945, it attacked the German lines in support of Soviet Forces. The charge was successful.
Korean War (February 7, 1951): A company of soldiers from the U.S. Army's 27th Infantry Regiment did an infantry charge which successfully defeated an enemy machine gun position.
Battle of Mount Tumbledown (June 13–14, 1982): British infantry charge Argentine positions in the Falklands War. The last successful bayonet charge until 2004.

[ed_montague]

Battle of Bataan (January 16, 1942): US 26th Cavalry Regiment makes a mounted pistol charge against Japanese positions, the last mounted charge in battle by conventional United States troops.
Eastern Front, World War II, (August 24, 1942): The last cavalry charge against a regular enemy army of Italian history happened in Izbušenskij. It was mounted against a Soviet artillery position along the River Don by 700 men of the Italian 3rd 'Savoia' Cavalry Regiment. This is often reported as "the last successful cavalry charge in history".
Battle of Poloj (October 17, 1942): The last charge of an Italian horse regiment during WWII. It was executed in Yugoslavia by the 14th Light Cavalry Regiment "Cavalleggeri di Alessandria" versus Communist partisans.
Battle of Borujsko (Schönfeld in German) was the last charge of the Polish 1st Cavalry Brigade just before the end of WWII. On March 1, 1945, it attacked the German lines in support of Soviet Forces. The charge was successful.
Korean War (February 7, 1951): A company of soldiers from the U.S. Army's 27th Infantry Regiment did an infantry charge which successfully defeated an enemy machine gun position.
Battle of Mount Tumbledown (June 13–14, 1982): British infantry charge Argentine positions in the Falklands War. The last successful bayonet charge until 2004.

Hey, I'm not saying cavalry charges didn't work. Against an irregular enemy that doesn't know how to stand and fire three rounds a minute (or that does not possess effective weaponry), cavalry charges are just fine. The Charge of the Light Brigade managed to accomplish its objective--lots of them died, sure, but that's war. It's just that armored vehicles are a hell of a lot harder to disable, and sometimes it's best to let the tanks roll through or just call in an airstrike. Horses are kind of fragile, compared to armor.

[Absalom]

Yeah, nowadays cavalry is really only useful for covert ops, formal events, and some therapy methods. And, in some militaries, possibly for utility purposes (e.g. pulling supply carts), though I wouldn't be surprised if basically every current military has switched over to cars & such for that.

[discord]

although slower compared to mechanized supply they have the advantage of requiring less supply.

[ed_montague]

Motor vehicles require gasoline/diesel/other fuel. Horses just need to be fed.

However, fire a bullet at an armored car and it goes *ping*. Fire a bullet at a horse and it dies.

Technology has its advantages.

[junk]

Battle of Bataan (January 16, 1942): US 26th Cavalry Regiment makes a mounted pistol charge against Japanese positions, the last mounted charge in battle by conventional United States troops.
Eastern Front, World War II, (August 24, 1942): The last cavalry charge against a regular enemy army of Italian history happened in Izbušenskij. It was mounted against a Soviet artillery position along the River Don by 700 men of the Italian 3rd 'Savoia' Cavalry Regiment. This is often reported as "the last successful cavalry charge in history".
Battle of Poloj (October 17, 1942): The last charge of an Italian horse regiment during WWII. It was executed in Yugoslavia by the 14th Light Cavalry Regiment "Cavalleggeri di Alessandria" versus Communist partisans.
Battle of Borujsko (Schönfeld in German) was the last charge of the Polish 1st Cavalry Brigade just before the end of WWII. On March 1, 1945, it attacked the German lines in support of Soviet Forces. The charge was successful.
Korean War (February 7, 1951): A company of soldiers from the U.S. Army's 27th Infantry Regiment did an infantry charge which successfully defeated an enemy machine gun position.
Battle of Mount Tumbledown (June 13–14, 1982): British infantry charge Argentine positions in the Falklands War. The last successful bayonet charge until 2004.

Hey, I'm not saying cavalry charges didn't work. Against an irregular enemy that doesn't know how to stand and fire three rounds a minute (or that does not possess effective weaponry), cavalry charges are just fine. The Charge of the Light Brigade managed to accomplish its objective--lots of them died, sure, but that's war. It's just that armored vehicles are a hell of a lot harder to disable, and sometimes it's best to let the tanks roll through or just call in an airstrike. Horses are kind of fragile, compared to armor.

Generally speaking a lot of people, even trained soldiers panic at the sight of someone charging at them and screaming like a madman. It's the reason why very often at <10m a person with a knife has a very good chance of taking down an armed opponent.

Of course, if you have an APC and IFV you have no reason to do a traditional charge. Those will be from now on relegated to only urban warfare I'd guess. Where they still happen from time to time.

Yeah, nowadays cavalry is really only useful for covert ops, formal events, and some therapy methods. And, in some militaries, possibly for utility purposes (e.g. pulling supply carts), though I wouldn't be surprised if basically every current military has switched over to cars & such for that.

Cavalry is amazing the police force. It might not be as great in the military in traditional military roles, perhaps apart from certain mobile infantries. But in the police force it shines.

[discord]

ed: my point was that a horse can graze and live off the land, most vehicles since the discontinued use of steam power cant, so the horse also has an advantage, under specific circumstances.

what i was NOT saying in any shape or form was that horses were superior to modern vehicles, just that they have a single advantage that comes to play when out of supply.

[javcs]

ed: my point was that a horse can graze and live off the land, most vehicles since the discontinued use of steam power cant, so the horse also has an advantage, under specific circumstances.

what i was NOT saying in any shape or form was that horses were superior to modern vehicles, just that they have a single advantage that comes to play when out of supply.

Horses have an edge only in terrain that can support them by grazing, which soaks up time. There's a fair number of places in the world that you can't graze horses particularly well.

[Suederwind]

I´m not sure if this belongs here or in a new topic.
After re-reading some things about medieval armor, weapons and the society at that time for this thread, I stumbled upon that Loroi timeline in the Insider section.
Especially this bit:

1750-50 BCE Classical Menelos period on Deinar (medieval). Near-constant warfare between nations.

So because of that I´m basically thinking the whole day about how Loroi Middle Ages would have looked like. Maybe with some kind of male "damsel in distress" and female Minnesingers? And how would their wars looked like at that time? Some kind of "Rape of the Sabine Men"?
I don´t know, but I can´t get this pictures out of my head right now.
Sorry for the interruption.

[junk]

ed: my point was that a horse can graze and live off the land, most vehicles since the discontinued use of steam power cant, so the horse also has an advantage, under specific circumstances.

what i was NOT saying in any shape or form was that horses were superior to modern vehicles, just that they have a single advantage that comes to play when out of supply.

Horses have an edge only in terrain that can support them by grazing, which soaks up time. There's a fair number of places in the world that you can't graze horses particularly well.

Not to mention that a military warhorse will have issues on just grazing. They need a bit more.

But yeah, light mulish horses might work on certain terrains for a long term mobile infantry. But that sort of means squat to any semi modern army, since they will generally move to and from FOBs pretty quickly.

[daelyte]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_World_War_II

Over the course of the war Germany and the Soviet Union employed more than six million horses.

The CMGs of the period (one Tank Corps and one Cavalry Corps) were regularly weapons of choice in operations where terrain prohibited use of fully deployed Tank Armies.

Cavalry can move faster than infantry through some terrain such as forests and mountains, where tanks are less mobile. They can also carry or pull loads that would be impractical for infantry, through those same terrains that would be impractical for motorized units.

George S. Patton lamented their lack in North Africa and wrote that "had we possessed an American cavalry division with pack artillery in Tunisia and in Sicily, not a German would have escaped."

[Arioch]

But the salient point is that horses in WWI and later were used for transportation, not as a weapon. The cavalry, when it existed, was a scouting unit that dismounted to fight. The cited examples of cavalry charges were unusual exceptions.

[Sanguinius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Cavalr ... Kingdom%29

4th Cavalry Brigade (United Kingdom)

4th Cavalry Brigade
Active 2 September 1939 - 1 August 1941
Country Great Britain
Branch British Army
Type Yeomanry
Role Cavalry
Size Brigade

Part of World War I
2nd Cavalry Division

World War II
1st Cavalry Division

Engagements World War I

Battle of Mons
Affair of Cérizy
Battle of the Marne
Battle of the Aisne
Battle of Messines
Capture of Meteren
Battle of Gheluvelt
Battle of St. Julien
Battle of Bellewaarde
First Battle of the Scarpe
Capture of Bourlon Wood
Battle of St. Quentin
Battle of Amiens
Battle of Albert
Second Battle of Bapaume
Battle of the Canal du Nord
Battle of the St. Quentin Canal
Battle of Beaurevoir
Battle of Cambrai
Battle of the Sambre
Capture of Mons [1]
World War II
Anglo-Iraqi War
Syria-Lebanon Campaign
Battle of Palmyra

The 4th Cavalry Brigade was formation of Regiments of the British Army during the First World War, which was formed again in 1939 from Yeomanry Regiments for service during the Second World War. During both conflicts it served as a part of the 1st Cavalry Division.

World War I

The 4th Cavalry Brigade, was part of the 2nd Cavalry Division, during World War I, together with the 3rd Cavalry Brigade and the 5th Cavalry Brigade, served on the Western Front in France from 1914 to 1918.[1][2]
Commander

General Sir Hubert de la Poer Gough [1]

Formation

Regt of Household Cavalry (consisting of various squadrons)
6th Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers)
3rd (King's Own) Hussars
1st Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars [1][2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mons

The first contact between the two armies occurred on 21 August, when a British bicycle reconnaissance team encountered a German unit near Obourg. One of the cyclists, Private John Parr, was killed, thereby becoming the first British fatality of the war.[22] The first substantial action occurred a day later, on the morning of 22 August. At 6:30 a.m., the 4th Dragoon Guards laid an ambush for a patrol of German lancers outside the village of Casteau, to the northeast of Mons. When the Germans spotted the trap and fell back, a troop of the dragoons, led by Captain Hornby, gave chase, followed by the rest of his squadron, all with drawn sabres. The retreating Germans led the British to a larger force of lancers, who they promptly charged, and Captain Hornby became the first British soldier to kill an enemy in the Great War, fighting on horseback with sword against lance. After a further pursuit of a few miles, the Germans turned and fired upon the British cavalrymen, at which point the Dragoons dismounted and opened fire. Drummer Edward Thomas is reputed to have fired the first shot of the war for the British Army, hitting a German trooper.[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... %281918%29

The attackers captured the first German position, advancing about 4,000 yards (3,700 m) by about 7:30 am[18] In the centre, supporting units following the leading divisions attacked the second objective a further 2 miles (3.2 km) distant. Australian units reached their first objectives by 7:10 am, and by 8:20 am, the Australian 4th and 5th and the Canadian 4th Divisions passed through the initial breach in the German lines.[18] The third phase of the attack was assigned to infantry-carrying Mark V* tanks. However, the infantry was able to carry out this final step unaided.[18] The Allies penetrated well to the rear of the German defences and cavalry now continued the advance, one brigade in the Australian sector and two cavalry divisions in the Canadian sector.

[ed_montague]

The first battle you describe was one of the first in the war, before the trenches stretched across Europe. The cavalry engagement described was a skirmish between scouting parties.

The second battle was part of the last great offensive of the war, when the German lines were broken and Allied forces were actually moving forward. The cavalry undoubtedly did a splendid job exploiting the breach, but the presence of tanks and artillery probably contributed more to the actual breakthrough than anything else.

[Suederwind]

When I think about cavalry in WWII, thats the first thing that comes to my mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty

The 18th Pomeranian Uhlans spotted a group of German infantry resting in a clearing in the Tuchola Forest heath near the railroad crossroads of Chojnice - Runowo Pomorskie line.

Colonel Kazimierz Mastalerz decided to take the enemy by surprise and ordered Eugeniusz Świeściak, commander of the 1st squadron, to execute a cavalry charge at 1900 hours, leading two squadrons, about 250 strong. Most of the two other squadrons, and their TKS/TK-3 tankettes, were held back in reserve.

The charge was successful: the German infantry unit was dispersed, and the Poles occupied the clearing. However German armored reconnaissance vehicles appeared from the forest road, probably part of Aufklärungs-Abteilung 20, and soon the Polish units came under heavy machine gun fire, probably from Leichter Panzerspähwagen equipped with MG 34, or Schwerer Panzerspähwagen equipped also with a 20 mm gun. The Poles were completely exposed and began to gallop for cover behind a nearby hillock.

Cavalry vs armored vehicles: never a good idea.