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fredgiblet · Post by **fredgiblet** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:43 pm

Wintermute wrote:I believe they have in the past, they're just exceedingly rare.

Not a race no. Individuals of various apparently can develop/have Lotai, but humans are the only species that appears to have it a base feature.

osmium · Post by **osmium** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:01 pm

As I recall Lotai (mask) as I recall is only a trait that Loroi (and possibly other psionic powered races [although to my knowledge no others have been introduced yet]) can train hard to actively suppress their natural signature thereby not showing up on psionic "radar". As far as we know Humans are the only race that subconsciously have this on all the time(at least in Jardin's case, but the fact that humans are an unknown factor perhaps implies this is the case for all humans as well) and the capability to Lotai is considered rare and special which we can infer from their treatment of Alex with the question "how does your lotai work"(paraphrase). Varying degrees of resistance to mind probes exist among the races. Some loose their free will merely by being nearby a Loroi who wishes that they would do something. Obviously we know nothing of the historians as they send AI's, but there are degrees of mind probe resistance up through apparent immunity (or at least functionally so) with humans.

-O

BattleRaptor · Post by **BattleRaptor** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:48 pm

If we consider the Loroi universe and its races, its highly likely humans will have technogly that is in part superior to the Loroi and Umiak.
So it makes sense the Loroi dont want to let the Umiak get it.

A real world example is Graphic cards, developed for the entertainment industry they are now being used in arrays to create supercomputers for physics simulations, because they are millions of times faster at complex mutistaged and non liner executions then normal a normal CPU.

These wouldnt exist today except directly because of how humans function and society is structured our love of games and learning has directly effected what parts of our technogly rapidly developed, and humans are surposed to develop faster then most other races in outsiders.

now I mentioned the Graphic cards specificly, because if we look at the prologue... the AI Ambassador is extremly limited graphicly... and this was because of the systems resources being used elsewhere.

YET even today such a representation would require very little processing power, infact the AI thought process should use far more resources then the Graphical Avatar.....

Im not saying humans DO have technogly thats better then the Loroi or Umiak... since only the Outsider universe creator can tell us that... im just saying its possible and from a military standpoint, and you wouldnt want it falling into enemy hands, so destroying/defending it makes sense.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:15 am

BattleRaptor wrote:If we consider the Loroi universe and its races, its highly likely humans will have technogly that is in part superior to the Loroi and Umiak.

Disputable.
It´s simply the old "avoid traces"-thingy.
The only things valuable for the loroi are our resources (metal rich planet) they do not know about yet.

Speaking of which: I suppose Loroi ships are more of composites than metal, right?

Voitan · Post by **Voitan** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:00 am

The only things valuable for the loroi are our resources

Our biological data and our cultural history will be relevant to their interests, and if there are any Soia interactions in our species history.

I'm sure their curiosity is just as strong as ours.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:04 am

Voitan wrote:
The only things valuable for the loroi are our resources
Our biological data and our cultural history will be relevant to their interests, and if there are any Soia interactions in our species history.

I'm sure their curiosity is just as strong as ours.

Their prime concern is avoiding annihilation. And i never heard of a war won by historybooks.

Voitan · Post by **Voitan** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:10 am

I never asserted that our history is going to help them win a war.

To see the Loroi as having no interests in anything besides war and survival is hemming them into a stereotype that will give us nothing in the story to tell about the Loroi other than stoic warriors fighting a savage war.

I think the Loroi are more than capable of holding their attention to more than one endeavor.

manticore7 · Post by **manticore7** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:52 am

Trantor wrote:
Voitan wrote:
The only things valuable for the loroi are our resources
Our biological data and our cultural history will be relevant to their interests, and if there are any Soia interactions in our species history.

I'm sure their curiosity is just as strong as ours.
Their prime concern is avoiding annihilation. And i never heard of a war won by historybooks.

durring World War 1 a british General by the name of Allenby outflanked the Ottomans at the town of Michmash by using a secret path around the town, He found the path by reading an account in the bible which is among other things a historical document.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:59 am

manticore7 wrote:urring World War 1 a british General by the name of Allenby outflanked the Ottomans at the town of Michmash by using a secret path around the town, He found the path by reading an account in the bible which is among other things a historical document.

Never heard of that. Unlikely also.
And besides: Which of the trillion versions of this book of fairytales?

CptWinters · Post by **CptWinters** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:15 am

Trantor wrote:Never heard of that. Unlikely also.
And besides: Which of the trillion versions of this book of fairytales?

That's uncalled for. The man was simply making an observation--there's no need for that kind of comment.

manticore7 · Post by **manticore7** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:33 am

@CptWinters: thanks capt, It donsn't bother me though. Trentor has his feelings about the subject and I have mine. again thanks

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:01 am

CptWinters wrote:
Trantor wrote:Never heard of that. Unlikely also.
And besides: Which of the trillion versions of this book of fairytales?
That's uncalled for. The man was simply making an observation

Whatever. We´re talking about a total war. A total war is all about resources.
And not about religiously embellished "secret paths" unbeknownst even to the locals.

CptWinters wrote:there's no need for that kind of comment.

It´s just a fact. There are trillions of "variations". Compare a lutheran bible with an example of one of those from a hardcore catholic/orthodox/whatever sectarian splinter group.

And back to topic: Speaking with Helena Cain, it´s nice to discuss the subtleties of culture and history, but just incase you forgot - the Loroi are AT TOTAL WAR.

CptWinters · Post by **CptWinters** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:27 am

I'm sure you're right, but that's no excuse to be uncivil.

GeoModder · Post by **GeoModder** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:03 am

Mjolnir wrote:I think Stillstorm mistrusts him entirely because he's a disconcertingly Loroi-like alien (and telepathically unreadable on top of that), not due to any suspicion of him being an Umiak plant. She may be insulting humanity's prowess as warriors specifically because she's concerned that they will be like Loroi in that regard (due to their physical similarities), and will pose a serious second threat at a time when the Loroi are more than occupied with the Umiak...she's provoking him to see how he responds. And probably coordinating constantly with Tempo.

There's a thought. A version of the bad cop vs badass cop.

CptWinters · Post by **CptWinters** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:10 am

It's like good cop/bad cop-- except without the "good."

Serkr Team · Post by **Serkr Team** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:10 pm

BattleRaptor wrote:If we consider the Loroi universe and its races, its highly likely humans will have technogly that is in part superior to the Loroi and Umiak.
So it makes sense the Loroi dont want to let the Umiak get it.

Entirely possible, but I doubt humanity has any advanced technology that can be used for a practical military advantage. As said before, the position and resources of human worlds are what makes them in any way important (excluding human telepathy/mental resistance hinted at). I'm not sure how Arioch intends the average colonised solar system to be like resources-wise, but from what we know through real life Earth and Sol are unique for their abundunce of metals and such. Our sun is one of the less common stars out there too, the vast majority of which are uninteresting red dwarfs.

Karst45 · Post by **Karst45** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:21 pm

Trantor wrote:And i never heard of a war won by historybooks.

But i did heard about losing a war because you didn't take example of past mistake

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. "George Santayana"

dfacto · Post by **dfacto** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:57 pm

If we consider the Loroi universe and its races, its highly likely humans will have technogly that is in part superior to the Loroi and Umiak.

I'm having a hard time thinking of any real advantage earth tech could possibly have over a species that has been space faring for hundreds of years and is fighting with tech near the cutting edge (damn stingy Historians).

Most likely humans would be able to offer non-tech services, the chief of which would be diplomacy. We're bound to be better at it than a race that needs specially trained personnel solely to not to tell others that they suck. Additionally humans could probably offer frontline infantry, since human males are still bigger than the average Loroi and probably stronger too.

Also, anyone get a nagging feeling that humanity is a Historian experiment?

GeoModder · Post by **GeoModder** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:15 pm

Karst45 wrote:Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. "George Santayana"

"All this has happened before. All this will happen again." -- Pythia

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:27 pm

GeoModder wrote:
Karst45 wrote:Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. "George Santayana"
"All this has happened before. All this will happen again." -- Pythia

True that.

And surely both our cultures will benefit from each other on many fields.
It is only that the Loroi have PRESSING problems, so action comes first, the rest comes later.

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