Since snipping apparently isnt frowned upon on these forums(cutting posts up with quotes and spamming the forum) IM going to do so too, except remove my own posts for the sake of not blowing out posts into mutipage responses with just a few words of new material.
Mjolnir wrote:Yes, they've been at war for 25 years, and have achieved a great deal more in those 25 years than in similar periods during peacetime. This is why comparing their historical rate of advancement with that of humans is invalid! Your claim is that overall largely-peacetime rates of development mean that humans will progress 10x as fast as Loroi in all situations, which is just absurd.
The Loroi are not stupid. They're just slow to adopt new things without a good need, and not as culturally driven to compete on a basis of technological innovation. A group of humans trained in Loroi technology would likely have taken just as long to reverse engineer the technology behind those blaster weapons. Perhaps somewhat faster, but they wouldn't have done it in a matter of months.
I never said they were stupid, so how about you dont put words into my mouth.. ok?
Also they are a military based civilization with 70% of there population in the military.
This suggests that even during peace time great ammount of resources is spent on IMPROVING weapon related tech.
Mjolnir wrote: I said exactly what I said, stop trying to put words in my mouth: bronze age man wouldn't have the materials needed even if they were given the know-how. Lodestone is a weakly magnetic material and will not produce electric motors useful for much other than toys. If they had soft iron, they'd be better off building AC motors and generators that don't need permanent magnets, but you specified bronze age man. Later greeks and romans could do those, but designing powerful motors and generators takes a lot of EM theory and math, and even materials that seem similar can perform in very different ways, so their motors would still be underpowered and bulky until they got the theory and materials science down. And even those would still be complex, high-maintenance devices full of semiprecious metals, not common mass produced pieces of equipment.
I said humans could copy it, I NEVER said it would be as effective.. INFACT I said the reverse.. you are bullshitting along once again putting words in MY mouth.
You gave Memsistors as a example of why humans wouldnt beable to reverse engineer any loroi tech in a reasonble time frame... stating that its taken 40+ years and we still dont have commerical product.
You fail to grasp that most of the 40+ years was spent attempting to find materials that could CREATE it(this isnt even true infact because no real research was done into it that I can find untill the last 10 or so years it remained only a theory).
Mjolnir wrote: Yes, you apparently missed something. There's a difference between having a working memristor in the lab, and having memory chips based on memristors in production. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Do tell whats the time expected time lapse between a working practical Memsistor and a commerical product...
Apparently so far it looks like 5 years.. so from 40+ years we have knocked off 35 years simply by knowing what materials to make it out of.
You seem to have failed to notice this.
Mjolnir wrote:No I haven't, I've made my position extremely clear. Difficulty of copying something depends on the situation. Alexander Bell would get no benefit at all from studying a passive optical network switch. While it might lead to earlier adoption of fiberoptic technologies decades later, it would only distract him from approaches he could actually implement, and it would be a long time until the field of optics was developed sufficiently to understand how it worked and reproduce it. And bronze age man would be essentially completely unable to reproduce an electric motor due to lack of materials and basic knowledge.
I never claimed Humans could understand and instantly start using EVERYTHING, infact IF you go back and read my posts you will see I actually said there would be things humans WOULDNT understand untill Human tech had advanced.
Since you are arguing the point then you are arguing the point........unless you aint arguing that point.. which leaves me wondering what the hell you are arguing.
Mjolnir wrote:Again, I've made it quite clear what my position is. Do everyone a favor and actually read the posts you're responding to.
Yes you are arguing that humans couldnt reverse engineer a working starship and start using parts of the technogly is a short ammount of time 1-2 years.
Mjolnir wrote:The Loroi and Umiak use a fundamentally different power system for their drives, using matter to energy conversion instead of fusion as humans do.
You are arguing with the creator of the comic who has stated humans are only 3 generations behind.
Pulse detonation engines are fundamentally diffrent to anything used during ww1 or 2 for aircraft propulsion yet they could understand the concept completely, they couldnt replicate it but they could understand it and know what direction they need to go towards TO replicate it.
Mjolnir wrote:
They fire weapons that blast straight through human vessels. We're not a few years away from replicating their work.
Im sorry what now?
where did this data come from?
1.The Bell had LIGHT armor, infact there is a Satistics of Terran ships
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/fleet_terran.html
The Bell was effectivey what a armored Jeep is to a Main battletank in regards to armor.
2.The bell isnt a warship, it was lightly armored and a race develops weapons that can kill its own. The bell would have fared no better agasint a Human heavy cruiser that was camping the jump point and opened fire immedately after the Bell appeared.
3.The Owner of the ship that fired on the bell isnt known, but we do know at least one race has far more powerful weapons then the Umiak and Loroi.. the Historians.
4.We have been told Terran Ships have heavier armor then Umiak/Loroi due to lack of screens for size.
5. We have been told Terran weapons are more then capable of ruining a Loroi or Umiaks day if they get in range. Since Larger terran ships have heavier armor, and to date the only weapons terrans know they need to defend agasint are there own.. and those weapons are powerful enough to penetrate Loroi and Umiak defenses. then a good chance Exists that Terran armor can offer protection agasint Loroi and Umiak weapons.
So unless we have been told specificly any human ship gets holed by a single shot from umiak and Loroi weapons we cant come to any conclusion but I would love to hear how you did.
You apparently are also a expert on outsider tech, knowing the advacement path of Outsider Terran level tech to Outsider Loroi level tech.
Mjolnir wrote:
No he hasn't. He's stated that humans and Umiak advance unusually quickly. It's not "our thing", it's just one of our notable characteristics. And the Loroi have largely been keeping pace with the Umiak, holding them in a stalemate. They've had help in doing so, but they're not the idiots you make them out to be.
Once again words in my mouth. I never once called the Loroi stupid or made them out to be so, you have failed to answer questions you snip and respond to what you wish and ignore anything that disagrees with you.
Lets put this another way..
So a peakcocks tail feathers.. which is a Characteristic of Peacocks isnt infact the peacocks "THING".
I really think you are arguing now just to argue.
However do feel free to explain how you took "our thing" to mean and how that was different to your wording of "notable characteristic"
Also the Loroi HAVNT been keeping pace with the Umiak, there engines and weapons come from other species.
Of course we dont know what tech the Umiak got from there own allies so its a bit of a stretch to argue.
But
We do have facts
Humans are 3 generations behind, the webcomic is written by a human from the modern world, so its logical to assume generation will match modern examples.
Maybe you have a better match for what was meant by generation, do feel free to actually provide it.
Also if you want to IMPLY anything, you have constantly implied humans would gain no benifit from having a working Loroi Ship.
Which one could take that you are implying ALL HUMANS ARE STUPID.. as this is the mirror of your own assessment that if Humans can understand and start replicating Loroi Level technogly that it must imply Loroi are stupid.
This is what you are arguing because the Orginal argument was humans would benifit greatly from having alien hardware to study.
