Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

[Werra]

"Third time's the charm, eh?" Loroi High Command

[GeoModder]

"Third time's the charm, eh?" Loroi High Command

"Charmed, I'm sure." Terran diplomat

[CF2]

"We're insane and run around destroying worlds; please come annihilate us!" ?

Now where have I seen that before...

[Sweforce]

I have the feeling that encountering deliberately irradiated worlds would raise just the kind of interest that you don't want if you're trying to avoid attention.

Another way could be to pretend to be weaker then you are so conquering you will get a lower priority while you arm up. Still, the British empire spanned the world in an era with no electricity and the travel time to some parts of it took months. In the worst case this tactic may even backfire and an invader may simply got for exterminate and replace rather then conquer and hire. Speaking of the British, there is a reason why there are so many Indians (from India, not native Americans) all over the world. As a conquered people they where easy to work with and have a natural resistance to the heat of tropical regions. And the Sikh make excellent soldiers!

[Zorg56]

For some reason i only now start to think about it, but...
It looks like in outsider universe there is no real central goverment for humanity.
What if some of human nations will choose Loroi, and other will choose Umiak?
Civil war without end?

[GeoModder]

For some reason i only now start to think about it, but...
It looks like in outsider universe there is no real central goverment for humanity.
What if some of human nations will choose Loroi, and other will choose Umiak?
Civil war without end?

Strictly speaking, its through the TCA Humanity will side with one or the other. Individual nations probably don't have the means to make contact on their own with either the Loroi or Umiak.

[boldilocks]

For some reason i only now start to think about it, but...
It looks like in outsider universe there is no real central goverment for humanity.
What if some of human nations will choose Loroi, and other will choose Umiak?
Civil war without end?

Strictly speaking, its through the TCA Humanity will side with one or the other. Individual nations probably don't have the means to make contact on their own with either the Loroi or Umiak.

Wakanda stands with the Umiak!

Would Johnny Bravo make a better diplomat to the Loroi than Alex? I mean, he's also blonde.

[Arioch]

For some reason i only now start to think about it, but...
It looks like in outsider universe there is no real central goverment for humanity.
What if some of human nations will choose Loroi, and other will choose Umiak?
Civil war without end?

Strictly speaking, its through the TCA Humanity will side with one or the other. Individual nations probably don't have the means to make contact on their own with either the Loroi or Umiak.

And individual nations do not have much in the way of military starships that could independently participate in the conflict. Some nations might decline to support the war through funds, resources and industry if they don't like the TCA's choice (though they would probably face severe international sanctions if they did, as this would be a breach of treaty), but it's hard to imagine human nations declaring war on each other over the matter -- since none of them will know anything about the combatants except what they've been told by the TCA.

While the TCA is not an international government, it is authorized to negotiate with aliens on behalf of humanity. It is run by a council of delegates from the member nations, somewhat analogous to the UN Security Council (except with the means to enforce its resolutions).

[Zorg56]

For some reason i only now start to think about it, but...
It looks like in outsider universe there is no real central goverment for humanity.
What if some of human nations will choose Loroi, and other will choose Umiak?
Civil war without end?

Strictly speaking, its through the TCA Humanity will side with one or the other. Individual nations probably don't have the means to make contact on their own with either the Loroi or Umiak.

And individual nations do not have much in the way of military starships that could independently participate in the conflict. Some nations might decline to support the war through funds, resources and industry if they don't like the TCA's choice (though they would probably face severe international sanctions if they did, as this would be a breach of treaty), but it's hard to imagine human nations declaring war on each other over the matter -- since none of them will know anything about the combatants except what they've been told by the TCA.

While the TCA is not an international government, it is authorized to negotiate with aliens on behalf of humanity. It is run by a council of delegates from the member nations, somewhat analogous to the UN Security Council (except with the means to enforce its resolutions).

I dont think that these ships that TCA have make any difference. As i can see they are too outdated to actually be used in this conflict.
But, how they dont know what alians are if they are in council that negotiate with them?
For me it sounds like "USA dont know about NATO plans". Absurd.

[Arioch]

And individual nations do not have much in the way of military starships that could independently participate in the conflict. Some nations might decline to support the war through funds, resources and industry if they don't like the TCA's choice (though they would probably face severe international sanctions if they did, as this would be a breach of treaty), but it's hard to imagine human nations declaring war on each other over the matter -- since none of them will know anything about the combatants except what they've been told by the TCA.

While the TCA is not an international government, it is authorized to negotiate with aliens on behalf of humanity. It is run by a council of delegates from the member nations, somewhat analogous to the UN Security Council (except with the means to enforce its resolutions).

But, how they dont know what alians are if they are in council that negotiate with them?
For me it sounds like "USA dont know about NATO plans". Absurd.

Unlike NATO, the TCA has its own independent military and intelligence gathering forces, and it's the TCA Scout Corps that is conducting the Alien Contact Mission; almost all information that Humanity has about the aliens has been collected by the Scout Corps, and the only means of communication with the aliens is through the Scout Corps' relays. As you can imagine, this information is classified. A report is made to the TCA council (in a similar way that classified reports are made by military or intelligence services to committees in the US Congress) so that it can make decisions, but this information is not supposed to leave the council room. There will be reports made to the various member governments and to the public, but these will be heavily redacted.

It is possible, I suppose, that one or more of the TCA council members might disagree with the decision of the majority so vehemently that he or she would leak classified information to their own governments and/or public, and persuade them to side with a different alien power than the one chosen by the majority. This would be a drastic thing to do, as the delegate(s) in question would probably be expelled from the council (and might face criminal charges), and any member nations defying the council's decisions (who would by definition be in the minority) would probably face treaty sanctions. So if, as a hypothetical, the special committee for the Alien Contact Mission decided to sign a treaty with the Loroi, and, say, Guatemala decided (for whatever bizarre reason) that they preferred to be Umiak subjects and declared war on the Loroi, they would have no way to communicate their intentions to the Umiak, and would have to deal with the international repercussions of violating the TCA treaty. It seems unlikely to me that human nations would be willing to go war with each other over aliens they've never met and know almost nothing about, but I suppose it's possible. I think it's more likely that Guatemala would be isolated by crippling political and economic sanctions.

The major powers' delegates on the council will have something akin to veto power, so I think it's unlikely that the TCA would be able to an take action that multiple major powers would be willing to defy with civil war. Especially since they all know that their only chance at survival is unity; if they can't agree on a side, then they may be committing racial suicide (as the Tithric did).

[boldilocks]

So if, as a hypothetical, the special committee for the Alien Contact Mission decided to sign a treaty with the Loroi, and, say, Guatemala decided (for whatever bizarre reason) that they preferred to be Umiak subjects and declared war on the Loroi

Damn furries. Every time.

[Mr Bojangles]

Unlike NATO, the TCA has its own independent military and intelligence gathering forces, and it's the TCA Scout Corps that is conducting the Alien Contact Mission; almost all information that Humanity has about the aliens has been collected by the Scout Corps, and the only means of communication with the aliens is through the Scout Corps' relays. As you can imagine, this information is classified. A report is made to the TCA council (in a similar way that classified reports are made by military or intelligence services to committees in the US Congress) so that it can make decisions, but this information is not supposed to leave the council room. There will be reports made to the various member governments and to the public, but these will be heavily redacted.

How independent is the TCA from governments of the nations that support it? I can't imagine that the leaders of the nations those council delegates represent would be happy with redacted reports...

[GeoModder]

Unlike NATO, the TCA has its own independent military and intelligence gathering forces, and it's the TCA Scout Corps that is conducting the Alien Contact Mission; almost all information that Humanity has about the aliens has been collected by the Scout Corps, and the only means of communication with the aliens is through the Scout Corps' relays. As you can imagine, this information is classified. A report is made to the TCA council (in a similar way that classified reports are made by military or intelligence services to committees in the US Congress) so that it can make decisions, but this information is not supposed to leave the council room. There will be reports made to the various member governments and to the public, but these will be heavily redacted.

How independent is the TCA from governments of the nations that support it? I can't imagine that the leaders of the nations those council delegates represent would be happy with redacted reports...

I had understood it was the public that received redacted reports, not the governments of member nations.
But you're right, it could be implied that both governments and public receive heavily redacted information.

[Arioch]

Unlike NATO, the TCA has its own independent military and intelligence gathering forces, and it's the TCA Scout Corps that is conducting the Alien Contact Mission; almost all information that Humanity has about the aliens has been collected by the Scout Corps, and the only means of communication with the aliens is through the Scout Corps' relays. As you can imagine, this information is classified. A report is made to the TCA council (in a similar way that classified reports are made by military or intelligence services to committees in the US Congress) so that it can make decisions, but this information is not supposed to leave the council room. There will be reports made to the various member governments and to the public, but these will be heavily redacted.

How independent is the TCA from governments of the nations that support it? I can't imagine that the leaders of the nations those council delegates represent would be happy with redacted reports...

The TCA is run by delegates from the member nations, and so it is representative in a sense. The member nations also control the TCA's purse strings, since the TCA does not itself have the power to print money or collect taxes. The TCA is not a federal government in the traditional sense, as its jurisdiction is very tightly defined, but within its narrow scope of Human interplanetary affairs, the TCA's authority is supreme.

California has multiple members on both the House and Senate Intelligence committees, and these representative receive detailed classified intelligence briefings. However, neither California's Governor nor state legislature has any authority to demand the same classified briefings; international intelligence is not the jurisdiction of the California government. California's government has to trust that its congressional representatives are weighing California's interests along with those of the entire Union, and that the California government will be informed of intelligence that directly affects them. And the government of California certainly doesn't have any say in when and how the United States goes to war.

The decision to go forward with the Alien Contact Mission and potentially commit Humanity to war was one that involved much debate at many different levels of government, from the TCA to the various member nations and their various unions and federations. However, once the consensus was reached that this was the way forward, the authority to conduct this mission and, potentially, make crucial decisions regarding the fate of Humanity had to be invested in the TCA. Ideally an alien delegation could be brought to Human space for a lengthy negotiation, but the planners realized that circumstances might require a decision to be made on the spot, hundreds of light years from home, and so the TCA's agents had to be endowed with the authority to make these decisions.

[Mr Bojangles]

Unlike NATO, the TCA has its own independent military and intelligence gathering forces, and it's the TCA Scout Corps that is conducting the Alien Contact Mission; almost all information that Humanity has about the aliens has been collected by the Scout Corps, and the only means of communication with the aliens is through the Scout Corps' relays. As you can imagine, this information is classified. A report is made to the TCA council (in a similar way that classified reports are made by military or intelligence services to committees in the US Congress) so that it can make decisions, but this information is not supposed to leave the council room. There will be reports made to the various member governments and to the public, but these will be heavily redacted.

How independent is the TCA from governments of the nations that support it? I can't imagine that the leaders of the nations those council delegates represent would be happy with redacted reports...

The TCA is run by delegates from the member nations, and so it is representative in a sense. The member nations also control the TCA's purse strings, since the TCA does not itself have the power to print money or collect taxes. The TCA is not a federal government in the traditional sense, as its jurisdiction is very tightly defined, but within its narrow scope of Human interplanetary affairs, the TCA's authority is supreme.

California has multiple members on both the House and Senate Intelligence committees, and these representative receive detailed classified intelligence briefings. However, neither California's Governor nor state legislature has any authority to demand the same classified briefings; international intelligence is not the jurisdiction of the California government. California's government has to trust that its congressional representatives are weighing California's interests along with those of the entire Union, and that the California government will be informed of intelligence that directly affects them. And the government of California certainly doesn't have any say in when and how the United States goes to war.

The decision to go forward with the Alien Contact Mission and potentially commit Humanity to war was one that involved much debate at many different levels of government, from the TCA to the various member nations and their various unions and federations. However, once the consensus was reached that this was the way forward, the authority to conduct this mission and, potentially, make crucial decisions regarding the fate of Humanity had to be invested in the TCA. Ideally an alien delegation could be brought to Human space for a lengthy negotiation, but the planners realized that circumstances might require a decision to be made on the spot, hundreds of light years from home, and so the TCA's agents had to be endowed with the authority to make these decisions.

I think your second paragraph gets to the core of my confusion. In your example, CA is a semi-independent subunit of a federated union. Constitutionally, its delegated role is subservient in matters that affect the whole of the Union.

As you say, the TCA isn't a federal authority and is somewhat akin to a United Nations that can enforce its edicts. So, the TCA seems odd to me, as its member nations are wholly sovereign and yet can be bound in some sense by its direction. So, the CA::US analogy doesn't quite fit. But, your third paragraph clears things up - the TCA has been especially invested with the power to make the necessary decisions given the realities of their mission, which does go beyond the Alien Contact Mission. I don't know if this power is extraordinary, but it fits with the mandates given to explorers in times past. You never know what will have to be done in the moment.

[Arioch]

As you say, the TCA isn't a federal authority and is somewhat akin to a United Nations that can enforce its edicts. So, the TCA seems odd to me, as its member nations are wholly sovereign and yet can be bound in some sense by its direction. So, the CA::US analogy doesn't quite fit. But, your third paragraph clears things up - the TCA has been especially invested with the power to make the necessary decisions given the realities of their mission, which does go beyond the Alien Contact Mission. I don't know if this power is extraordinary, but it fits with the mandates given to explorers in times past. You never know what will have to be done in the moment.

I think you get where I'm going with this: there is no point in having an organization like the TCA unless it has the authority to do what it needs to do. In effect, this means that the member nations are not truly sovereign in the traditional sense; though it's treaty organization, in signing the treaty the member nations give up some small measure of their absolute sovereignty, at least when it comes to interstellar affairs. A better analogy would be a member of a confederation like the European Union. To join such a union is to give up certain rights that a truly sovereign nation expects: such as the ability to control who crosses your borders.

[Jayngfet]

I think the obvious question is how important those various member states are and what kind of power they wield. Our idea as an audience on how such a thing should play out is informed by real life politics, where two or three superstates can dictate international politics. However we see several Outsider nations have broken away from their real world progenitors.

Are U.S.A./Russia/China still top dogs, have any of them been broken up, or have any other major entities arisen? Have any of them become larger or more powerful?

[boldilocks]

I think the obvious question is how important those various member states are and what kind of power they wield. Our idea as an audience on how such a thing should play out is informed by real life politics, where two or three superstates can dictate international politics. However we see several Outsider nations have broken away from their real world progenitors.

Are U.S.A./Russia/China still top dogs, have any of them been broken up, or have any other major entities arisen? Have any of them become larger or more powerful?

Calexiteers rise up!

[Arioch]

I think the obvious question is how important those various member states are and what kind of power they wield. Our idea as an audience on how such a thing should play out is informed by real life politics, where two or three superstates can dictate international politics. However we see several Outsider nations have broken away from their real world progenitors.

The ups and downs of international politics tend to rest on situations that are difficult to predict over 140+ years, and since the specifics of Earth internal politics are not really relevant to the story, I try to be as vague about them as possible. I would like to think that the development of the rest of the wold will continue with nations in Africa and elsewhere coming into their own, but you never know what kind global catastrophes (plague, ethnic strife, resource shortages) will shape future outcomes. I think the Earth of 2160 will probably have suffered at least one major global pandemic.

Individual international cooperatives like the EU and NAFTA may come and go, but I think such regional cooperatives are probably where we will look for region-wide economic and political authority on the level that could affect the TCA. Keeping in mind current population and economic trends, I think the most important nation groups will be (in no particular order):
North America
South America
China
Indian Subcontinent
Asia/Pacific (Japan, Korea)
South-east Asia (Indonesia, etc.)
Africa
Europe
Russia

Probably about 5 of these groups will have one or more representatives with a veto on the TCA council.

Mars probably has two major influence blocs (Yinghuo and the Ares coalition), and the other colonies (Aldea, Alpha, Proxima, and Esperanza) probably each have one.

Are U.S.A./Russia/China still top dogs, have any of them been broken up, or have any other major entities arisen? Have any of them become larger or more powerful?

I don't think Russia has been a "top dog" for some time now. Russia isn't even in the top 10 world GDP, and though they are still #9 in population, they are the only country in the top 10 with a falling population. Russia will probably be passed by Korea in GDP and by Mexico in population in 2019.

[Zorg56]

Where is cabin on bellarmine?
Do loroi find any personal items?

P.s. Russia will collaps in a span of 5 years, there will be no such country in the future.