Loroi Trade translation request general

[Arioch]

The lexicon entry for “welcome” seems to be an adjective, not an interjection. What would you say in Loroi Trade when welcoming someone?

"Welcome" in English is also an adjective, but that doesn't stop us from using it as an interjection. If you said "Dozal," the target would most likely understand what you mean. If you wanted to sound more erudite, you could make it a proper sentence such as Lozen me here to dozal penni, "You are welcome here."

The most basic trade greeting is rales, "hail" or "greeting."

[Mercy Machine]

Isn't "welcome" a noun, a verb, and an adjective? I'm not trying to be picky here, but English is my second language and I still find its grammar... slippery.

[Arioch]

Isn't "welcome" a noun, a verb, and an adjective? I'm not trying to be picky here, but English is my second language and I still find its grammar... slippery.

Most words in English can be used an nouns, verbs and adjectives.

[gaerzi]

Isn't "welcome" a noun, a verb, and an adjective? I'm not trying to be picky here, but English is my second language and I still find its grammar... slippery.

As Watterson's Calvin once remarked, "verbing weirds language".


But yes, English is remarkably prone to adjective verbs and nouns and to verb nouns and adjectives and to noun adjectives and verbs.

For instance, we can thank Facebook for turning "friend" into a verb. One that has a different meaning from the preexisting verb "befriend".

[G. Janssen]

lake is "mennis" (the automatically-generated word was "penis", which is obviously not acceptable. )

Imho, similar sounding naughty words should not be avoided. Because they happen. A lot. So I think having them makes a language more realistic. And having less than perfect knowledge of a language also makes having them fun.

A few examples:

"Cut" is a common word in English. "Kut", which has the same pronounciation, is a Dutch word for female genitalia and a common thing for Dutch people to shout when they're angry. So it's not something a frustrated Dutch movie director (Paul Verhoeven) should shout when shooting an expensive scene.

"Fikken" is a Dutch word for "burn". "Ficken" (same pronounciation) is the German equivalent of the f-word. An operator of the German equivalent of 911 was once quite surprised to hear that a house was having sex when a Dutch woman made a call about a burning house.

Famous story 1. Two Dutch CEOs were once reprimanded by a stewardess on an American flight after an American passenger had complained about their conversation. The passenger kept hearing "cool f*ck" and "freeze f*ck", which had greatly disturbed him. The two Dutch gentlemen however, had merely been debating in Dutch if the name for the compartment inside a refrigerator that is used to freeze its contents, was named "koelvak" (refrigeration compartment) or "vriesvak" (freezing compartment)

Famous story 2: A Dutch politician (Joseph Luns) was once asked by J.F. Kennedy if he had a hobby and what that hobby was. His unfortunate answer (which would lead to the publication of a book about Engrish) was "I fok horses". When a rather surprised Kennedy said "pardon?", Luns enthusiastically answered "yes, horses!". The Dutch word for "breed" is "fok" and again sounds an awful lot like the f-word.

Famous story 3: When Winston Churchill paid a visit to the Netherlands, he met with Dutch politician Pieter Gerbrandy. At one point, Churchill said “Spring is in the air”. And Gerbrandy said: “Why should I?” Once again, similar sounding words and limited knowledge of a language had created an interesting situation. "Spring is" sounds a lot like "spring eens", which is Dutch for "do a jump". Gerbrandy had heard Churchill say "do a jump in the air".

And these people were professionals, diplomats and politicians! And these screwups happen all the time. Everywhere. Penis? I would have left it in place.

[Arioch]

lake is "mennis" (the automatically-generated word was "penis", which is obviously not acceptable. )

Imho, similar sounding naughty words should not be avoided. Because they happen. A lot. So I think having them makes a language more realistic. And having less than perfect knowledge of a language also makes having them fun.

Made-up languages in fiction are there to serve a purpose in the story; it's nice if they can feel authentic, but factors that call undue attention to themselves, whether or not they are "realistic," can detract from the story rather than adding to it. Any collection of phonemes is likely already going to mean something in some language somewhere, but there are degrees of how well such words are known, especially for the language in which the story is written. For example, the word "Soia" means "soy bean" in several languages, but I don't think that is well known to English speakers, and probably wouldn't be too jarring even to readers in those languages. However, if I named a place or character "Penis," that would definitely get readers' attention and pull them out of their immersion in the story.

I think the notable exception to this rule is when using the similarity deliberately for effect and directly alluding to it in the story, such as with "ensign/enzin."

[GeoModder]

Famous story 1. Two Dutch CEOs were once reprimanded by a stewardess on an American flight after an American passenger had complained about their conversation. The passenger kept hearing "cool f*ck" and "freeze f*ck", which had greatly disturbed him. The two Dutch gentlemen however, had merely been debating in Dutch if the name for the compartment inside a refrigerator that is used to freeze its contents, was named "koelvak" (refrigeration compartment) or "vriesvak" (freezing compartment)

Wouldn't have happened with most Flemish speakers. The majority of us don't halfway pronounce a 'v' as an 'f'.

[G. Janssen]

Wouldn't have happened with most Flemish speakers. The majority of us don't halfway pronounce a 'v' as an 'f'.

True. The Flemish are better at speaking (and writing) Dutch than the Dutch. And they (we) know it.

[Keklas Rekobah]

The lexicon has a Trade word for "Earthquake", but not for words like "rattle", "shake", or "turbulence".  Translations, please?  Thank you.

[Arioch]

The lexicon has a Trade word for "Earthquake", but not for words like "rattle", "shake", or "turbulence".  Translations, please?  Thank you.

rattle v. riselda(n)
shake v. pomobo
stir, agitate v. nasanda(r)

[Snoofman]

(Just because I was bored.)


It's raining men, hallelujah, it's raining men, amen
I'm gonna go out to run and let myself get
Absolutely soaking wet
It's raining men, hallelujah
It's raining men, every specimen
Tall, blonde, dark and lean
Rough and tough and strong and mean

[Arioch]

Disibo tó lenara à lasteri ("males are being rain-doing")
Disibo tó lenara à sineri ("males are rain-falling")

[Angry_Americanok]

As of late I've been reading a great deal about men in combat, E.B. Sledge's With the Old Breed, The Last Stand of Fox Company by Bob Drury and Tom Clavin, The Bedford Boys by Alex Kershaw, and Rough Riders by Mark Gardner most recently. I've also been reading Lord of the Rings and what others have written about Lord of the Rings, and it's all got me thinking about the notions of unit cohesion, morale, the will to fight, camaraderie, courage in the most horrific conditions, leadership under fire, that particular hatred of a lethal enemy, things like that.

Since the Loroi are a warrior-centric culture with a long history of conflict among themselves and against assorted aliens, I figure they would have put a great deal of thought into what keeps warriors where they're supposed to be (ex. crater in the coral with the blood of the last occupants all over the walls), and what gets them to go where they probably would rather not be (ex. going up a hill at machine guns and rifles that are shooting back down at them [insert lasers and plasma as required]).

It's got me wondering about the trade words that convey those concepts.
I'm not particularly familiar with how the search functions operate here so if this has come up before I haven't been able to find it.

Also, what would the trade be for pneumatic? From the lexicon I presume it'd be related to timon, but I don't understand linguistics enough to hash a full word out from that and the grammar page.

[Arioch]

As of late I've been reading a great deal about men in combat, E.B. Sledge's With the Old Breed, The Last Stand of Fox Company by Bob Drury and Tom Clavin, The Bedford Boys by Alex Kershaw, and Rough Riders by Mark Gardner most recently. I've also been reading Lord of the Rings and what others have written about Lord of the Rings, and it's all got me thinking about the notions of unit cohesion, morale, the will to fight, camaraderie, courage in the most horrific conditions, leadership under fire, that particular hatred of a lethal enemy, things like that.

Since the Loroi are a warrior-centric culture with a long history of conflict among themselves and against assorted aliens, I figure they would have put a great deal of thought into what keeps warriors where they're supposed to be (ex. crater in the coral with the blood of the last occupants all over the walls), and what gets them to go where they probably would rather not be (ex. going up a hill at machine guns and rifles that are shooting back down at them [insert lasers and plasma as required]).

It's got me wondering about the trade words that convey those concepts.
I'm not particularly familiar with how the search functions operate here so if this has come up before I haven't been able to find it. I think this mostly sums up how the Loroi view the role of the warrior class in combat.

The motto of the Loroi warrior class reads: Rozain ronnei Pelor dezon. Moriet tonirrir Lishradil dezon. “Victory, only from Duty. Ascension, only through Unity.” I think this mostly summarizes how the warriors view their role in combat.

In the current war, there is not a lot of ground combat, and so the main weight of conflict falls on the fleet arm of the Loroi military, and in particular on their small craft pilots, marines and special forces. Most young Loroi warriors (as with young human soldiers) are eager to get into combat for the first time, but learn to temper these feelings when they've had direct experience of combat. But even seasoned troops still feel the call of duty, even if it means their eventual destruction.

That said, Loroi warriors are not immune to fatigue, and so even the most ardent young warriors have their limits... and command recognizes this. Warfare is as much about morale, fatigue and logistics as it is about hardware.

Also, what would the trade be for pneumatic? From the lexicon I presume it'd be related to timon, but I don't understand linguistics enough to hash a full word out from that and the grammar page.

Yes, timon is the term used when relating to air pressure. I'm guessing that at the tech level of most Loroi devices, outside of HVAC systems, pneumatic systems don't play much of a role.

Psychokinetics can compress and project air missiles in what is essentially an air bullet or "pneumo" (called such only because I'm a classic Battlestar Galactica fan), but I think that Loroi terms for Teidar abilities are mostly esoteric rather than scientific; they didn't really understand the physical principles that they were using to kill people.

[gaerzi]

Yes, timon is the term used when relating to air pressure. I'm guessing that at the tech level of most Loroi devices, outside of HVAC systems, pneumatic systems don't play much of a role.

Psychokinetics can compress and project air missiles in what is essentially an air bullet or "pneumo" (called such only because I'm a classic Battlestar Galactica fan), but I think that Loroi terms for Teidar abilities are mostly esoteric rather than scientific; they didn't really understand the physical principles that they were using to kill people.

The Teidar lingo is probably "pumba" since they didn't know it was actually "timon".

[Demarquis]

A main difference, I think, is that for humans, given our evolutionary past and history, chronic warfare is an exceptional situation that requires a number of psychological compromises to adapt to. This may not be true for the Loroi, who as I understand it, were designed with this in mind. Violence and death could be the water they swim in, in which case Alex is in for some major surprises when he gets a chance to discuss what happened to Cloud with the others.

This may be the first time he has seen the Loroi operate in what they consider normal conditions.

[Cthulhu]

1. Is there any Loroi Trade word or concept which describes a princess/her ladyship/ojou-sama, basically the young offspring of an influential heritage or somebody related to an important person? Like Ashrain, if she qualifies as one? Maybe even a more archaic form which would actually be a title?
2. Warlord.
3. Mystic (as a title/role/function).
4. Silence (the absence of any sanzai).

Also, the minnir is both a mythological figure, and an actual animal. Is there any reason why this particular beast was given such significance?

[Arioch]

1. Is there any Loroi Trade word or concept which describes a princess/her ladyship/ojou-sama, basically the young offspring of an influential heritage or somebody related to an important person? Like Ashrain, if she qualifies as one? Maybe even a more archaic form which would actually be a title?

The traditional term for the scion of an important clan would be siirrin, but in the modern post-clan era this is a term that would mostly be used derisively to refer to someone of un-earned privilege.

2. Warlord.

Nennastem

3. Mystic (as a title/role/function).

Don't know specifically what you mean there. "Seer" is timadi, and "prophet" is onzir, if that helps.

4. Silence (the absence of any sanzai).

The term binzer is used to describe a telepathic mute. I don't have a specific term for a lack of telepathic activity; it could be described by the literal phrase bishires sanzai. "Silence" (edenat) refers specifically to sound.

Also, the minnir is both a mythological figure, and an actual animal. Is there any reason why this particular beast was given such significance?

The actual animal was so named because it reminded the people who discovered it of the description of the mythical creature (never having seen another bird-like animal before).

The mythical creature figures prominently in several tales having to do with victory and fate.

[Cthulhu]

1. Can the term siirrin also be used in a non-derisively manner? There are still prominent bloodlines and influential families around, right?
2. By Mystic, I meant someone who deals with the more esoteric stuff. Fringe psionic techniques, rare means of telepathic treatment, etc. Maybe there's even a rank and title for that, buried somewhere in the byzantine caste hierarchy?
3. If there is no psionic silence, how about the term for telepathic jamming?
4. Will the minnir (the mythical one) be featured in the comic? Also, is the word's root, which it shares with the terms for reincarnation and rebirth, simply coincidence due to the language generator's whim?

[Arioch]

1. Can the term siirrin also be used in a non-derisively manner? There are still prominent bloodlines and influential families around, right?

Anything is possible in the right context, but if you're trying to represent a sense of the mainstream Loroi culture, I don't think that would be a good thing to use.

The Loroi clan system was abolished after the Splinter Wars along with the Axis Assembly, both to solidify imperial power and to promote the egalitarian ideal of the warrior class. The old bloodlines still exist, and they are not without influence, but it would not be seemly to call attention to one's "birthright" in the current political system. It would be kind of like calling someone a "prince" in post-revolution France... you might do it affectionately or in jest toward a good friend or family member in private, but it's probably not something you'd want other people to hear someone say about you.

(Romans: "Sure, Caesar, we'll agree to make you dictator for life, but for God's sake don't call yourself a 'king!'")

2. By Mystic, I meant someone who deals with the more esoteric stuff. Fringe psionic techniques, rare means of telepathic treatment, etc. Maybe there's even a rank and title for that, buried somewhere in the byzantine caste hierarchy?

I don't have a title for something like that.

3. If there is no psionic silence, how about the term for telepathic jamming?

The techniques of antipsi can be referred to as sal-sanzai or sal-dennen.

Terms describing telepathy tend to be rather literal... as Loroi discussing telepathy don't usually use spoken words to do so.

4. Will the minnir (the mythical one) be featured in the comic?

loroi_symbol.gif (1.6 KiB) Viewed 63686 times

Also, is the word's root, which it shares with the terms for reincarnation and rebirth, simply coincidence due to the language generator's whim?

There are some similarities between the mythological minnir and the phoenix legend.