junk wrote:Still we're perhaps better of than columbus indians. Mostly because the Loroi don't seem to use things which are almost alien to us. The majority of their equipment and tactics are things that are just fancier and higher tech version of what loroi timeline humans use and have.
The only thing that might fall into that category is the farseeing. But well not a problem for us and we're in the same situation as every other loroi verse species.
War is something even modern day humans can understand. At least to a certain level. Same as Europeans do when they came to the americas. Indians were really bad off.
Actually, the main problem the tribes faced was disease. A rather significant portion of the population was wiped out by diseases intentionally (and probably unintentionally) brought over by Europeans. By the time that us in the US started expanding westward, the real fight was already over.
That's all right though, as I understand it the Europeans took Syphilis back with them and changed it from a minor nuisance into a major pathogen .
Really, as long as we didn't pick up any weird Loroi bacteria we would probably be approximately fine, the biggest post-war concern would be economic. Disease though... it brought down the Athenians (they think that might have been the first record of Ebola, but no way to know), it devastated the Western Roman Empire, it prevented the Byzantine Empire from restoring "the glory that was Rome"... As far as I know, disease is the most reliable threat to human civilization.
We also turned a minor potato blight disease that caused minor food shortages from time to time... and almost destroyed Ireland.
There is something to be said for mixing and matching your harvests a little.
And syphilis is nothing compared to the damage real pathogens, like smallpox can do to a human population.
When the days of hunger begin and nations rise up in war, biological warfare might seem innately cruel... it in itself it can resolve the underlying problem of over-population.
Chemical warfare mutilates, while biological typically hurts you in ways that heal without scars (assuming they choose one of the nicer variants) and don't leave many people between the lines of DEAD, or IMPROVING.
And trashman, i know you were trashtalking but the idea of this thread is we de-rail the discussion as often as we want, we are allowed to get distracted and talk about the things that we are inspired to say by other threads without de-railing proper discussion :p
BTW I think i now understand the current development of modern warfare:
Airpowers trumps Artillery
Artillery trumps Ground Forces
Ground Forces trump Anti-Aircraft weaponry
And of course AA trumps Aircraft.
For all we keep trying to develop new weaponry to allow ground forces to deal with artillery, and aircraft to deal with AA, the fact is they always remain highly vulnerable to them unless you just counter them directly!
And space superiority requires high levels of accuracy to hit ground based targets AND needs independent resupply if you intend to try glassing the planet.
If say North Korea decided to start chucking rocks at earth, they could devastate the entire world, but exactly where would they live?
Destroying planets is easy,
While replacing them is not.
Fotiadis_110 wrote:And space superiority requires high levels of accuracy to hit ground based targets AND needs independent resupply if you intend to try glassing the planet.
If say North Korea decided to start chucking rocks at earth, they could devastate the entire world, but exactly where would they live?
Destroying planets is easy,
While replacing them is not.
North Korea couldn't hit the broad side of a planet to save its life.
Actually, they've succeeded in hitting the Pacific Ocean with their ballistic missiles on multiple occasions. That's a start.
It's not so much the fact that everyone would be dead that is preventing whoever's in charge of the North Korean space program from blowing up the world--it's just North Korea isn't exactly a source of quality engineering and design.
Actually, they don't really need anything really high-tech to flatten their southern neighbor before the U.S. could respond; most sources agree that their artillery would turn Seoul into a giant crater within the hour or something.
Ensign Jardin is my name
And Terra is my nation
Deep space is my dwelling-place
The stars my destination
From my reading, the south could do much the same with their opening volley, except they would rather use said guns to annihalate bridges and similar infastraucture, and thanks to their use of modern artillery plus a highly skilled army, are more likely to hit a target that isn't many kilometers across...
I only picked NK for the reason that they are a belligerent nation who continually chooses to 'flex their might' in order to try and show how all powerful they are.
The point is more about the idea of someone deciding to throw rocks because they obtained space superiority, because everyone talks of glassing planets, while forgetting the value of a habitable world, because terra-forming is horribly expensive.
Fotiadis_110 wrote:From my reading, the south could do much the same with their opening volley, except they would rather use said guns to annihalate bridges and similar infastraucture, and thanks to their use of modern artillery plus a highly skilled army, are more likely to hit a target that isn't many kilometers across...
I only picked NK for the reason that they are a belligerent nation who continually chooses to 'flex their might' in order to try and show how all powerful they are.
The point is more about the idea of someone deciding to throw rocks because they obtained space superiority, because everyone talks of glassing planets, while forgetting the value of a habitable world, because terra-forming is horribly expensive.
Well, yeah. Except North Korea isn't going to gain air superiority any time soon.
I agree with you fully, don't mind me. I just like typing things.
Ensign Jardin is my name
And Terra is my nation
Deep space is my dwelling-place
The stars my destination
Who doesn't like typing random things? And that is half the purpose of this thread.
____________________________________
One of these days i am going to go into the discussion of what I was meaning regarding my post in the 'confused gender' thread... Actually maybe I should do it now... basically my comment was a stereotype, which of course means that most don't conform to it particularly well (which is of course the normal case for most normal people), because every stereotype started as a generalisation, trying to fit many people into one basket... however stereotypes have problems, specifically there are people who in their desire to 'Fit in' will do their best to CONFORM to the stereotype. This point is more scary than it initially appears, as the negative aspects of the stereotype are normally over-emphasised by those outside of it due to frustration, irritation or general ignorance... this leads to certain cases of individuals I have encountered who EMBODY those excessively over-emphasised negative characteristics, which I believe strange, and mostly due to peoples desire to conform.
It's a dangerous aspect of our modern society really.
The reason I felt the need to post this explanation is that most people were painting me to be some kind of hypocritical idiot, or sexist bigot... I admit I'm far from perfect, but given my goal was to paint a slightly OTT picture explaining some of the negative aspects of the discussion, it was taken VERY out of context to a point where it had lost it's original intent.
I never wanted to insult ANYONE, rather scare people with horrible mental images, and point out that with the good also comes the bad, negative things we would rather not find their way into our poor ignorant worlds.
Dropping stones from orbit is easy (if we don't care targeting) but how hard is to get them there?
Option 1. Take them from earth
Expensive as every kilo of material requires 10 kilo of fuel.
Option 2. Mine them from moon.
Build the launch facility on to moon, which cost a lot. After that, the transfer is much cheaper, but needs more targeting skills, so it will not miss the earth or bounce of from atmosphere.
Option 3. Harvest meteors.
Have we collected more materia than little bit of dust?
was more referring to planetary invasion, but local works too, just need a space based infrastructure first.... and who cares about accuracy, a little collateral damage is good for business, just pay a tribute in virgins(or whatever else is useful) every year or we drop rocks on you!
launch facility from the moon? bah build huge gun to launch missiles, from there it actually works.
although a dedicated facility in orbit would probably be better.
CJ Miller: How many millions must be banned before we stop having pointless arguments on the Internet?
fredgiblet: ALL OF THEM! Our banhammers will blot out the sun!
CptWinters: Then we will troll in the shade.!
bunny: no, you move munitions to a place where you can actually aim it, aka a 'launch facility', you do not MAKE triton missiles in a nuclear sub.....even if RTS games do it that way quite often...
If i were to try to crush the earth, I would use the moon myself... however I wouldn't be relying on a base there to fire projectiles, and i certainly would not place it on the close side of the moon.
No I would use Ion engines, powered by the sun itself, and use the MOON as my projectile.
I wonder how much thrust 1m2 of solar panels can provide, and multiply that a few times to see how much per square kilometre :p
It would have about 14 days of impulse each month, every month, always towards the planet.
Fotiadis_110 wrote:And space superiority requires high levels of accuracy to hit ground based targets AND needs independent resupply if you intend to try glassing the planet.
And the alternative (ground invasion) requires even more precision (so you don't waste your own troops with close in fire support), and even more supply (a large army that needs to constantly be fed/refurbished).
Maxium 20
"If you aren't willing to shell your own position,
You aren't willing to win."
(Schlock mercenary)
Speaking of which I suddenly realised what the Chinese would do in war... Close artillery support with no real emphasis on actual accuracy of that support.
I believe Arioch does have a RL job and the comic can sometimes take a back stage to his current work.
then, again, Outsider has gone for extended time without updates. Maybe it is quiet time for outsider ( or i hope arioch is doing a BIG 100 page celebration)
I am a wander, going from place to place without a home I am a NOMAD
Guys, it's been a month and a half... there have been plenty of delays that long between pages. I wouldn't start standing on the corner and declaring the End Times yet...
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