What are the terran military really useful for?

[dragoongfa]

The problem then lies with the jumpdrive tech of the outsider universe and energy consuming it is. Would a ship that would easily be twice the size of an Ultraheavy be able to jump even with the Loroi energy technology?

At least one of the precursor empires (the Soia if I'm not mistaken) jumped with ships the size of moons between the stars. According to the Insider that is.

[RedDwarfIV]

Did you guys miss the part where I said they didn't have to be slow? All you need is to have the same TWR as military vessels (probably by fitting a bigger engine section.) And if there's a size limit to jumping, just build it smaller, and then build more of them.

I may well be underestimating the capabilities of 3D printers, but I brought them up because they are an example of a machine that can create a very wide array of components. I also refer you to Flexible Manufacturing Systems, specifically machine flexibility - the ability to use machining tools on various products.

If a battlecruiser needs a new exhaust control vane, then some machines that were creating replacement TV screens could be directed to start working on parts for the exhaust vane instead. That particular example may not work in real life, but it should get my point across. A fleet auxiliary repair spacecraft would not be an aviation assembly line manufacturing plant. They would build small numbers of what the fleet needs at the time, not a constant flow of one part. Leave that to the space stations that build the spacecraft in the first place.

[dragoongfa]

If a battlecruiser needs a new exhaust control vane, then some machines that were creating replacement TV screens could be directed to start working on parts for the exhaust vane instead. That particular example may not work in real life, but it should get my point across. A fleet auxiliary repair spacecraft would not be an aviation assembly line manufacturing plant. They would build small numbers of what the fleet needs at the time, not a constant flow of one part. Leave that to the space stations that build the spacecraft in the first place.

Not all machines can be flexible though, the same machine that fabricates microships cannot be re purposed for an other task, they can be quickly repurposed to build an other kind of microchip but nothing other than that. The same applies to all other manufacturing machines.

[RedDwarfIV]

If a battlecruiser needs a new exhaust control vane, then some machines that were creating replacement TV screens could be directed to start working on parts for the exhaust vane instead. That particular example may not work in real life, but it should get my point across. A fleet auxiliary repair spacecraft would not be an aviation assembly line manufacturing plant. They would build small numbers of what the fleet needs at the time, not a constant flow of one part. Leave that to the space stations that build the spacecraft in the first place.

Not all machines can be flexible though, the same machine that fabricates microships cannot be re purposed for an other task, they can be quickly repurposed to build an other kind of microchip but nothing other than that. The same applies to all other manufacturing machines.

Which is fair enough.

But I'd argue that this:

doesn't need a continent-sized spacecraft to house it.*

You might need a lot of different machines, even if they can each make a wide array of products, but the important thing is that none of them would be the size of an aviation factory.

* The machine shown is an ASML Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography microchip making device. It is three and a half metres tall.

[Zakharra]

Did you guys miss the part where I said they didn't have to be slow? All you need is to have the same TWR as military vessels (probably by fitting a bigger engine section.) And if there's a size limit to jumping, just build it smaller, and then build more of them.

I may well be underestimating the capabilities of 3D printers, but I brought them up because they are an example of a machine that can create a very wide array of components. I also refer you to Flexible Manufacturing Systems, specifically machine flexibility - the ability to use machining tools on various products.

If a battlecruiser needs a new exhaust control vane, then some machines that were creating replacement TV screens could be directed to start working on parts for the exhaust vane instead. That particular example may not work in real life, but it should get my point across. A fleet auxiliary repair spacecraft would not be an aviation assembly line manufacturing plant. They would build small numbers of what the fleet needs at the time, not a constant flow of one part. Leave that to the space stations that build the spacecraft in the first place.

Building many smaller and faster auxiliary ships might allow them to keep up with the fleet, but it is going to have notable limitations even with larger numbers of them. The problem with the smaller ships is they are limited in 2 things: what they can build (limited to a certain size) and the material they can carry to build the components they make (which could include munitions). Auxiliary ships will be large and slow, but they aren't meant to be on the front lines, just real close behind it to provide battlefield maintenance and repairs to keep the battle fleets fighting and/or last long enough to get to a larger orbital shipyard that is likely far behind the front lines. Many of the machines will be specialized, in that they build a specific range of parts (ie the microchip making machines), but not limited to just one thing.

[RedDwarfIV]

I did point out that part of they reason they would be faster is because they don't have to carry all the materials with them. That would be done by a materials transport auxiliary.

As for size limits on what you can build... I'll refer you to my 'just bolt the Wave Motion Cannon on outside' argument. The thing about space is... there's plenty of space. If necessary, a large part could be assembled outside the hull.

[Senanthes]

Aside from local policing and keeping ourselves in line?

I suppose we could offer a relatively unknown staging area, fleet support (to an extent), and some VERY second line combat support. Looking over the specs on the Victory leads me to think it might, with upgrades and alterations (engines and shields mostly), make a decent missile platform for a battlegroup with its two dozen missile tubes. We might be able to refit other vessels enough to allow their use against secondary combatants, but frankly, i don't see the Colonial Fleet as being in any position to offer a meaningful presence on the front line for the foreseeable future.

So, going on what i know, without any assumptions of us having a miracle up our sleeves, the Fleet would be able to save the Union the trouble of deploying a police force, and if any of the tertiary races are of comparable capability, they could free up front line forces by deploying their own warships to handle it, provided none of the major combatants intervene.

That's about all i can think of.

[Zakharra]

I did point out that part of they reason they would be faster is because they don't have to carry all the materials with them. That would be done by a materials transport auxiliary.

As for size limits on what you can build... I'll refer you to my 'just bolt the Wave Motion Cannon on outside' argument. The thing about space is... there's plenty of space. If necessary, a large part could be assembled outside the hull.

They still need the parts/materials on hand on the ship to be of use. There could be a few ships that might have nothing but spare parts that are hard to make, as well as ships carrying nothing but ammunition and food/life support supplies, but the auxiliary repair ships would have to have immediate access to the needed materials, so they would have a lot of what they need onboard already. A large single piece object (like hull plating) can only be as large as the furnace and forming machines are that can spit said plate armor out. They can't make pieces larger than they are. Long they can do, as exhibited by the hundreds of feet of train track rails that are regularly produced and the tens of thousands(or more) feet of wire that is used for so many things. But width comes at a cost. Things can only be so wide before it becomes too wide to move from the factory to the shipyard, or out a hatch to a damaged starship needing hull repairs.

To repair something, it needs to be close to the ship/yard doing the repairing, and it's usually in some sort of repair bay (even if it is a dock with a few fingers or frames stretched around the space that encompasses the ship[ being built/repaired (the spacedocks that are used to build Starfleets ships are large open air (in space, HAH!) that nonetheless encompass the area around the ship, so there is a limitation in how large the ships can be built. Any larger and the dock needs to be enlarged. Ships being built or repaired need to be close to the source of materials and power used to weld their frames and hulls together. You can't do that easily hundreds of meters away from the shipyard.

I do get what you're saying though, the ship can be built/repaired near enough to the ship to be done efficiently. But it needs to be more or less attached to the repair ship, via a repair bay or docking clamps that physically keep the ship close to the repair auxiliary ship so it doesn't drift away.

With the auxiliary fleets, it's very likely that most of them remain 1-2 jumps behind the front lines and either stay in place (for the moment) to receive the damaged ships, repair and rearm them and send them back to the front, or retreat if the enemy penetrates the system, or advances to the secured system to help repair/rearm and resupply the victorious Lorio forces. The last place most auxiliary ships need or should be is in the battle with the Lorio. That's not to say some can't, but those ships, while useful before and after a battle, are a liability during a battle since they need to be protected.

It is nice debating this with you and others. It helps me think and visualize things more clearly and points out any flaws I can have in my arguments.

[RedDwarfIV]

Good points. Though the Starfleet stardocks problem could be solved quite easily if they just put the sides of the docks on rails or a folding hinge, to allow the position of the sides to be adjusted.

As for the positioning of the auxiliaries, you're probably right. The only time they'd need to accompany a fleet is on deep strikes (which the Loroi don't do) or expeditions (which, as far as I know, the Loroi don't do.) However, I'd still recommend the high-G drives, in case enemy vessels do manage to break past the front lines.

[TrashMan]

Target practice

[bunnyboy]

Target practice

Human worlds don't have enough ships for even that, because practise needs repeat.