Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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JQBogus
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by JQBogus »

A more basic question : Are grav compensators subtractive, or do they compensate up to their rating, then collapse?

Subtractive : You have a 35G compensator. You accelerate at 40G, you feel (40G-35G) 5Gs.

Collapsing : You have a 35G compensator. You accelerate at 40G, your compensation field collapses, and you feel all 40G.

If they're collapsing, the liquid breathing question is kinda moot.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Tamri »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Ok, I will explain in simple terms.

1) If you carefully read the Insider (or a collection of answers, I don't remember exactly), then you had to stumble on part of which states that amplifier should be "tweaked" to a specific user. Roughly speaking: Blade can use Rain's amplifier, but Rain cannot use the Blade's amplifier. Because Rain weaker PK-user than the Blade, and use Blade its amp will be ineffective, but safe. But if the Rain will use Blade's amplifiers designed for a far greater power, it will be dangerous to her health. In short - the gain is dependent on the users power and her skills, but it cannot be increase indefinitely. Brains boil.

2-3) In his assumption I assume that the compensators in the Outsiders world is normal. In the sense that they are all the same: 5 G, 10, 100 - they are able to easily and without loss to compensate for any overload, the only question is the necessary energy. But if they refuse - then yes, the crew will be fun. If you depart from the imperfection compensation technology, for example, that they are able to compensate for the overload only to, say, 40 G the same, and all that is above them or overloading (causing the crew feel the very same 40+ G), or they will continue to work, just the crew will feel "increase" parameter at 45 G - crew will feel 5.

In any case, it doesn't matter, because in the case of kinetic weapons much more important ratio of the mass of the projectile and the ship. If the ingot weighing 250 kg will be shot on the 1% of the light from ship weight of 250 kilotons, momentary overload will be only 3 m/s, ie, ~ 0.3G, what is obviously not deadly. Of course, If on board you have battery of such guns, and / or other options, and they are all fire in the same time - it is certainly yes, but in this case the instantaneous overload hardly be deadly. At least for human beings. Unpleasant and traumatic - of course (hitting the wall at 2-3 G the same - few pleasant), but not lethal for sure.

ShadowDragon8685
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

JQBogus wrote:A more basic question : Are grav compensators subtractive, or do they compensate up to their rating, then collapse?

Subtractive : You have a 35G compensator. You accelerate at 40G, you feel (40G-35G) 5Gs.

Collapsing : You have a 35G compensator. You accelerate at 40G, your compensation field collapses, and you feel all 40G.

If they're collapsing, the liquid breathing question is kinda moot.
Aye, that's why I asked the question.

How does everybody's compensators work? Even if the Loroi compensators are collapsers, maybe the Human or Umiak ones are Subtractors?

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Arioch
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Is a gigantic psionic amplifier that amps TK to the level of "theoretically useful at starship scale" possible, similar to that which farseers use? (Range notwithstanding.)
I don't think so. There is an upper limit to how much psionic power can be amplified. The large farseer-type ampifiers are passive reception-only mechanisms.
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:The Loroi have very powerful kinetic dampeners. Everybody has gravity aboard their ships. Are grav-drivers, along the lines of mag-drivers, possible?
Theoretically possible, but not within current Loroi capabilities.
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Similar to the last question: can damping be used in conjuction with liquid breathing medium? I.E., for a gunship-classed vessel the size of a Highland-class shuttle, or even the size of a Corvette, just a giant pile of engines, guns, and enough inertial dampeners to bring the effective force acting on the crew below what liquid breathing would allow them to tolerate?
In theory, but there is not much need. Inertial dampers can handle pretty much any accleration that a ship large enough to mount them can generate.
JQBogus wrote:A more basic question : Are grav compensators subtractive, or do they compensate up to their rating, then collapse?
Subtractive, but it would be an unusual situation for a ship to be able to generate a larger acceleration than the dampers could handle. Damping is not the limiting factor on ship acceleration; it's pure thrust-to-mass ratio.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Absalom »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
- Secondly, there is a problem of accuracy. Just bring all the ship to the target the size of a speck of dust isn't too big a problem, but get over it - there will be a huge success. Because directed the all ship in response to the maneuvers of the target, is much heavier than the gun turret. Just due to the fact that the ship weighs orders of magnitude more.
[snip]
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Also, I can't actually tell what you said in your second point, or even what you were trying to say.
I think he's saying that the telekinetic would probably miss the target every time: normally they just act over comparatively short distances.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Arioch wrote:In theory, but there is not much need. Inertial dampers can handle pretty much any acceleration that a ship large enough to mount them can generate.
Huh. So is there essentially a lower volume limit on the size of dampeners? Maybe the total dry mass of the craft is important? 44m - the size of a Lancer-class heavy fighter - is not terribly smaller than 50m, the smallest vessel the Loroi have on record with dampeners. And the Highland-class shuttle is notable for being, well, a shuttle, with a great deal of its internal volume taken up by space for passengers and cargo, and landing gear and air-breathing engines. Meanwhile, Umiak gunboats are fully compensated, and can get up to 36g of acceleration, whilst being only 25m longer than a Highland.

Basically, I'm wondering, if the Loroi went balls-to-the-wall (metaphorically speaking,) with gunship-class vessels of their own, how much greater performance could they theoretically get than either Umiak gunships or their own starfighters? I mean, I'm presuming that making a dampener that can make you not feel 60g of acceleration is going to be quite a lot heavier, bulkier, and more expensive than one that only compensates, say, 25-30g, but that would also put them on par with the hardest-burning torpedoes either side has. If they could cut the cost/expense (in terms of volume/mass primarily, but hey, saving a few credits is always nice, too) of fully compensating that much acceleration by using a liquid-breathing crew, I'm just thinking that that might be a worthwhile edge.
JQBogus wrote:A more basic question : Are grav compensators subtractive, or do they compensate up to their rating, then collapse?
Subtractive, but it would be an unusual situation for a ship to be able to generate a larger acceleration than the dampers could handle. Damping is not the limiting factor on ship acceleration; it's pure thrust-to-mass ratio.[/quote]

In fairness, I was positing an unusual situation; ships with absolutely gargantuan engines compared to their overall mass.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Basically, I'm wondering, if the Loroi went balls-to-the-wall (metaphorically speaking,) with gunship-class vessels of their own, how much greater performance could they theoretically get than either Umiak gunships or their own starfighters? I mean, I'm presuming that making a dampener that can make you not feel 60g of acceleration is going to be quite a lot heavier, bulkier, and more expensive than one that only compensates, say, 25-30g, but that would also put them on par with the hardest-burning torpedoes either side has. If they could cut the cost/expense (in terms of volume/mass primarily, but hey, saving a few credits is always nice, too) of fully compensating that much acceleration by using a liquid-breathing crew, I'm just thinking that that might be a worthwhile edge.
Gunboats for the Loroi are problematic on a couple of fronts: first, Loroi vessels aren't equipped with the linkages to handle them, and they're too big for most carriers. Second, it's a similar situation to torpedoes; the Loroi use them, but in different ways than the Umiak. I'm not sure what role a Loroi gunboat would have except as an anti-gunboat platform, and trying to compete directly against the Umiak in gunboats is a losing numbers game.

The Loroi are experimenting with a "super" fighter (the Fury) which at 50m is more or less the largest small craft that most Loroi carriers can handle. It tops out at 40G, and that's with no inertial dampers. I think they'd be hard-pressed to build something faster that could still carry enough weaponry and fuel to be an effective combatant.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Tamri »

The question isn't so much on Loroi, as the Trade language: it has obscene lexicon, or in this it is similar to the Japanese, for example, where there are more or less rude versions of the word / pronunciation?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Tamri wrote:The question isn't so much on Loroi, as the Trade language: it has obscene lexicon, or in this it is similar to the Japanese, for example, where there are more or less rude versions of the word / pronunciation?
Trade is very literal, there are no inherent obscenities or "curse words" per se, but you can still formulate something obscene or insulting if you call someone a "feces-head" or compare her relatives to certain types of animal, etc.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Tamri »

The next set of questions.

1) What are the Loroi rituals of courtship? Though roughly. To my thinking, the current structure of society not to allow the development of this part of the culture, but also to the forming of society, these rituals had to be very diverse. Or not, but in some form had to be, exactly.

2) Here asked, whether Loroi have animals, what giving milk. Expanding theme, and ask about the animals what giving eggs :D And if there are any, then Loroi use these eggs as food? And in general, how varied diet Loroi in common?

3) Where did Loroi arose concept of transport, if they were to appear only in the era of scientific and technological revolution, and even later? For example, our first machines used concept of "wagon without a horse." And how this was the case to Loroi? A little thought, came to the conclusion that they had to have some kind of wheelbarrows, and something like our rickshaws or sedan chairs, and further they are repelled by these ideas, but interesting opinion of the author.

4) What kind of humor in Loroi? And what they find funny / fun?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Tamri wrote:1) What are the Loroi rituals of courtship? Though roughly. To my thinking, the current structure of society not to allow the development of this part of the culture, but also to the forming of society, these rituals had to be very diverse. Or not, but in some form had to be, exactly.
Courtship rituals in most organisms I'm aware of are usually associated with pair bonding, which the Loroi don't do. The matchmaking process probably had some traditions or rituals associated with it in various Loroi subcultures, and some of those persist, but they don't resemble courtship in any way we would think of.
Tamri wrote:2) Here asked, whether Loroi have animals, what giving milk. Expanding theme, and ask about the animals what giving eggs :D And if there are any, then Loroi use these eggs as food? And in general, how varied diet Loroi in common?
None of the traditional Soia-liron domestic animals are egg-layers, and so most traditional Loroi cuisine does not include eggs. Taben has eggs from marine life, but these are essentially fish roe. Perrein has a wide variety of egg-like food items (some of which aren't eggs).

How varied the Loroi diet is will depend on the location. Planets with a variety of food organisms and/or a local culture with a tradition of fine cuisine will have greater variety. Food on board a military vessel far from port will have less variety.
Tamri wrote:3) Where did Loroi arose concept of transport, if they were to appear only in the era of scientific and technological revolution, and even later? For example, our first machines used concept of "wagon without a horse." And how this was the case to Loroi? A little thought, came to the conclusion that they had to have some kind of wheelbarrows, and something like our rickshaws or sedan chairs, and further they are repelled by these ideas, but interesting opinion of the author.
None of the three sister worlds had appropriate beasts of burden (and Perrein and Taben have geography unsuited to wheeled vehicles anyway), so early transport was limited to boats. Almost all transport and burden was done on foot and with manpower. Use of the wheel came very late to Deinar, in the form of hand-pushed wheelbarrows and carts, useful mainly for moving heavy objects short distances. The idea of a person either unable or unwilling to walk under her own power was repellent to most Loroi warrior cultures, but in cases where it became necessary (such as with an infirm but still valuable elder), they would have been hauled around on palanquins or the like. It was not until the industrial era and the invention of mechanical engines that mechanized ground transport and true roads became viable.
Tamri wrote:4) What kind of humor in Loroi? And what they find funny / fun?
Tastes vary by subculture and individual.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

I have a question. With up to 50% of Loroi society (in peacetime) being Warriors, does that mean that the Warrior castes wind up doing civil-service jobs that we'd assign to civilians?

Things like civil policing, emergency medtechs, hospital staff/doctors, firefighters, emergency rescue services, etc?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:I have a question. With up to 50% of Loroi society (in peacetime) being Warriors, does that mean that the Warrior castes wind up doing civil-service jobs that we'd assign to civilians?

Things like civil policing, emergency medtechs, hospital staff/doctors, firefighters, emergency rescue services, etc?
Yes.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Sweforce »

Arioch wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:I have a question. With up to 50% of Loroi society (in peacetime) being Warriors, does that mean that the Warrior castes wind up doing civil-service jobs that we'd assign to civilians?

Things like civil policing, emergency medtechs, hospital staff/doctors, firefighters, emergency rescue services, etc?
Yes.
I came to think of how Roman legionnaires did a public jobs, especially construction.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Absalom »

Arioch wrote:
Tamri wrote:3) Where did Loroi arose concept of transport, if they were to appear only in the era of scientific and technological revolution, and even later? For example, our first machines used concept of "wagon without a horse." And how this was the case to Loroi? A little thought, came to the conclusion that they had to have some kind of wheelbarrows, and something like our rickshaws or sedan chairs, and further they are repelled by these ideas, but interesting opinion of the author.
None of the three sister worlds had appropriate beasts of burden (and Perrein and Taben have geography unsuited to wheeled vehicles anyway), so early transport was limited to boats. Almost all transport and burden was done on foot and with manpower. Use of the wheel came very late to Deinar, in the form of hand-pushed wheelbarrows and carts, useful mainly for moving heavy objects short distances.
So few or no traders moving bulk loads over long distances with loroi-powered wagons? I guess commerce wasn't a compelling Loroi tradition. Considering that trade was the only reason the Bronze Age had much bronze, I'd guess that restrained them quite a bit all by itself.
Arioch wrote:The idea of a person either unable or unwilling to walk under her own power was repellent to most Loroi warrior cultures, but in cases where it became necessary (such as with an infirm but still valuable elder), they would have been hauled around on palanquins or the like.
So no cultural disonances like Thor's chariot being pulled by goats instead of horses? A shame.
Arioch wrote:It was not until the industrial era and the invention of mechanical engines that mechanized ground transport and true roads became viable.
I would like to point out that while the Roman roads were used by wagons, they both were intended for foot soldiers, and should qualify as "true" roads: "modern" roads were themselves designed for wagons & such initially (specifically, they're a variant of Macadam road, with an alternate binder due to vehicle-induced wind gusts), but even if we didn't have beasts of burden, either they or an alternative would have been derived at some point, because they aid human movement as much as car, wagon, and horse transport.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Absalom wrote:No few or no traders moving bulk loads over long distances with loroi-powered wagons? I guess commerce wasn't a compelling Loroi tradition. Considering that trade was the only reason the Bronze Age had much bronze, I'd guess that restrained them quite a bit all by itself.
I'm not convinced that humanoids make good wagon-pullers, but regardless they can still carry smaller loads on their backs. There's nothing about any of these materials that prevents them being carried in many small loads.

Medieval Japan also had a lack of wheeled vehicles, not because of lack of tech, but because of regulations (only Imperial wheeled vehicles were allowed to use the roads). Peasants just carried loads on their backs.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Suederwind »

I'm not convinced that humanoids make good wagon-pullers
Nevertheless they could have used some kind of handcart? Those things were very popular in our ancient times and are still used today.
Maybe this could have required some kind of permission from the various ancient Loroi citystates for the traders and was not very common for that reason?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Sweforce »

Arioch wrote:
Absalom wrote:No few or no traders moving bulk loads over long distances with loroi-powered wagons? I guess commerce wasn't a compelling Loroi tradition. Considering that trade was the only reason the Bronze Age had much bronze, I'd guess that restrained them quite a bit all by itself.
I'm not convinced that humanoids make good wagon-pullers, but regardless they can still carry smaller loads on their backs. There's nothing about any of these materials that prevents them being carried in many small loads.

Medieval Japan also had a lack of wheeled vehicles, not because of lack of tech, but because of regulations (only Imperial wheeled vehicles were allowed to use the roads). Peasants just carried loads on their backs.
Not really a smart move for a good economy. Well I guess the loroi DID have wagons and if their beasts of burdens wasn't good for riding they may be something good for pulling wagons, if only for the short distances from the local harbour. Trying to ride a sledge dog isn't really a good idea after all. You do not need to invent roads, they make themselves as trails where people or animals go, then you just expand on the idea and improve on them.

Came to think of it, the whole Soia-lorein system seem to lack something, like there isn't a complete picture. Well that is what you get for having synthetic species with a missing component. I guess the other races are just as limited as the loroi in the fields that they where not originally intended for. They need each other, and a driving force behind them to excel. Since the Soia are gone, then maybe this is where humanity can give an helping hand. We may be backwards and not as smart but we do have an wonderful imagination. We are good at having ideas, and some of those ideas are even good. A bit of chaos can be just what they need.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Tamri »

Arioch wrote: I'm not convinced that humanoids make good wagon-pullers, but regardless they can still carry smaller loads on their backs. There's nothing about any of these materials that prevents them being carried in many small loads.

Medieval Japan also had a lack of wheeled vehicles, not because of lack of tech, but because of regulations (only Imperial wheeled vehicles were allowed to use the roads). Peasants just carried loads on their backs.
Besides trucks and wheelbarrows have even scrapers, sleighs and dog sleds, for example. As history shows, even if it was not possible to use the wheel, people find it possible not to carry baggage on the back. Of course, like Loroi not have dogs, but what sleds is good, that it is possible, with due skill, harness anyone. Though the same miros.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

The Soia-liron farm ecosystem has holes because it's designed for ultra-tech societies, not start-over-from-the-stone-age societies. Horses were a crucial resource for us TL0-5, but they're completely useless TL6+ (except as novelties).

The concept of a society without wheels is not unprecedented. If you take a look at medieval Japanese woodblock prints of farm or market activity, you won't see any wheeled carts. What you'll see are people carrying big loads on backpacks and (whatever you call a pole that goes across the shoulders with a burden hanging from each end). You also won't see a lot of beasts of burden. Rice farming is a completely manual process that doesn't benefit from plows, etc.

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