Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Urist]

I'm not *sure* if this question fits best in this thread, but the other ones are much-older and so here goes:

Are there any planet-side settlements in the Azimol system? If I'm not mistaken, it was originally a Neridi/Loroi colony which was overrun early in the war, depopulated much like Seren, and then retaken by the Union. Has anyone 'resettled' the planet, or is it judged too near the front-lines for anyone to be crazy enough to try?

[Arioch]

Are there any planet-side settlements in the Azimol system? If I'm not mistaken, it was originally a Neridi/Loroi colony which was overrun early in the war, depopulated much like Seren, and then retaken by the Union. Has anyone 'resettled' the planet, or is it judged too near the front-lines for anyone to be crazy enough to try?

Yes, there are populated settlements on Azimol, mainly Neridi and Loroi. The original civilian population (mostly Neridi) were mostly evacuated before the system was taken by the Umiak, and it was under Morat occupation until the Semoset offensive. It was retaken mostly intact; the Morat left without too much of a fight. The current population is much smaller than before, mainly just what is necessary to support the fleet bases in the system.

[White]

Regarding a note in the telepathy section

Jamming
A powerful telepath may attempt to "jam" telepathy by flooding the area with telepathic noise. Some telepaths have the ability to passively detect the use of all psionic abilities, including psychokinesis as well as telepathy. Such detection usually has a short range, unless amplified. Telepaths with this "psi sense" can also have the ability to interfere with psi use on a more fundamental level, projecting an "antipsi" field that damps down all psi use within an area.

Does this affect telekinesis as well, or is it purely for telepathy?

[Arioch]

Does this affect telekinesis as well, or is it purely for telepathy?

Regular telepathic jamming only affects telepathy.

Antipsi can affect psychokinesis.

[White]

What does the standard Union calendar look like? Do Loroi operate by weeks or months? If so what are some of their months called?

Calendars are mostly a local phenomenon that generally only have significance on a particular planet. There is a standard clock by which official times and dates are kept, but this is mainly for official recordkeeping. Each planet will have its own calendar, and how time is segmented up will often vary by local custom and subculture even within a planet.

The official clock is based on Perrein time and has days that are 26 Earth hours long and years that are 238 Perrein days long (about 257 Earth days). Perrein has no moons nor any significant axial tilt, so it has no months or even seasons. Starships are usually run on official time without much regard to local calendars.

A commonly used sub-segment of the year is called the nanapi (“transit”), based on the orbital period of the larger of Deinar's two small moons. It is about 10 Earth days (9 Perrein days or 12 Deinar days). Nanapi aren't individually named.

Regarding the Diral.

Assuming that it lasts two Earth years: (2.84 Perrein years). Would it be fair to say that a Diral lasts for 68 perrein "weeks".

[Arioch]

Regarding the Diral.

Assuming that it lasts two Earth years: (2.84 Perrein years). Would it be fair to say that a Diral lasts for 68 perrein "weeks".

I don't think the term "Perrein week" has any particular meaning. Deinar has the nanapi which is a 12-day month (a transit of the smaller moon), but I don't think that would be observed on Perrein, as Perrein has different day lengths.

[Urist]

Yes, there are populated settlements on Azimol, mainly Neridi and Loroi. The original civilian population (mostly Neridi) were mostly evacuated before the system was taken by the Umiak, and it was under Morat occupation until the Semoset offensive. It was retaken mostly intact; the Morat left without too much of a fight. The current population is much smaller than before, mainly just what is necessary to support the fleet bases in the system.

Follow-up question: for the Nezel system, is there a significant loroi population (either in orbital platforms or planetside)? Beryl mentions that system as hosting a reserve fleet base, so I would assume that that means a meaningful loroi population at least counting those aboard the warships docked there. The planetside population I assume would be overwhelmingly neridi. But would the support personnel (maintainers, technicians, logistics workers, etc.) be loroi or neridi? The system itself is within neridi space and not *too* close to the front which would seem to push them forwards, but IIRC the loroi are touchy about having aliens working positions which warriors could have taken instead.

[Arioch]

Follow-up question: for the Nezel system, is there a significant loroi population (either in orbital platforms or planetside)? Beryl mentions that system as hosting a reserve fleet base, so I would assume that that means a meaningful loroi population at least counting those aboard the warships docked there. The planetside population I assume would be overwhelmingly neridi. But would the support personnel (maintainers, technicians, logistics workers, etc.) be loroi or neridi? The system itself is within neridi space and not *too* close to the front which would seem to push them forwards, but IIRC the loroi are touchy about having aliens working positions which warriors could have taken instead.

Nezel is the major Neridi system in the Steppes region and it was the last bastion of Union defense in the Tinza sector during the battle of The Line prior to the Semoset offensive. It never fell to the Hierarchy and so it still has most of its prewar settlements and infrastructure (though a lot of civilians evacuated during the darkest days of war). There are a significant number of Loroi here, though not as a percentage of the total population.

A lot of the orbital infrastructure at Nezel was built by the Neridi before the war, and so it has distinctive Neridi architecture and is staffed primarily by Neridi. The Loroi have since constructed a lot of their own infrastructure, and so there are a number of Loroi stations as well as Loroi-built wings to existing stations (such as Teacup Harborage, the main fleet base). Loroi facilities are mainly staffed by Loroi, as Loroi ships are. They might have a few Neridi aboard as liaisons, or they might hire some civilian contractors to do certain kinds of work at the docks, etc. For this kind of contracting it doesn't make much difference to the Loroi whether the civilians are aliens or Loroi workers.

[White]

Regarding steroids in the future.

Would the main players have "exercise pills" that activate the same biochemical pathways as actually exercising? Do soia lieon species even have to deal with things like muscle atrophy as a result of a lack of use?

And what are Loroi views on crying in the timeline of the story.

On earth, in the modern day, or can be seen as a show of weakness or a death of self control -- at least among men in certain contexts such as in regards physical pain --, but its also been the case that ancient heroes have been shown acting hystericay: read Achilles, and in the roman empire some went so far as to hire professional cryers at funerals.

It's interesting to think about with the Loroi, as 'playing up' ones sadness might be considered lying, but so might the opposite case if you say stone faced at your friend's funeral.

It actually begs the question if a lot of the 'face saving' strategies present in humans are simply absent in the Loroi, or if they have their own versions where a Loroi might simply refuse to share a large degree of their mental context when speaking and is allowed to do so by their peers.

[Arioch]

Regarding steroids in the future.

Would the main players have "exercise pills" that activate the same biochemical pathways as actually exercising? Do soia lieon species even have to deal with things like muscle atrophy as a result of a lack of use?

I think that in general, having soldiers be dependent on performance enhancing drugs creates more problems than it solves. Even if there were no negative side effects, it creates an additional logistics element that may present very severe consequences when shortages arise, which they inevitably will in war.

If you're going to engineer some kind of super-trooper, you just design them so that their bodies produce their own chemicals.

Loroi are healthy and sturdy, and they have very good endurance, but they really don't seem to be geared to being "super-troopers." In the style of warfare that modern Loroi practice, there is no great need or great benefit to using performance enhancing drugs, at least in terms of battlefield combat. I don't think it's hard to keep troops exercising.

There are some cases in which Loroi use drugs as a normal part of their service, but that's not something I'm going to talk about right now.

And what are Loroi views on crying in the timeline of the story.

On earth, in the modern day, or can be seen as a show of weakness or a death of self control -- at least among men in certain contexts such as in regards physical pain --, but its also been the case that ancient heroes have been shown acting hystericay: read Achilles, and in the roman empire some went so far as to hire professional cryers at funerals.

It's interesting to think about with the Loroi, as 'playing up' ones sadness might be considered lying, but so might the opposite case if you say stone faced at your friend's funeral.

It actually begs the question if a lot of the 'face saving' strategies present in humans are simply absent in the Loroi, or if they have their own versions where a Loroi might simply refuse to share a large degree of their mental context when speaking and is allowed to do so by their peers.

I have the feeling that the stone-faced hero is a modern standard... in pretty much all the pre-industrial period writing I've read, both East and West, the heroes are very emotive.

Loroi are telepathic, and in many cases it's not hard at all for one Loroi to tell what another Loroi is feeling. So being either stone-faced or performatively sad doesn't serve much purpose. On the contrary, most Loroi cultures place a very severe stigma on attempts at dishonesty, and they value individuals who have the courage to be frank about what they think or feel, even if it is unpopular or impolite. So pretending to be sad when you're not probably won't work, and may very well make people extremely angry with you.

The typical Loroi equivalent of a funeral is a gathering in which the deceased's acquaintances enter into a sort of telepathic gestalt to share memories of the departed. It would be extremely difficult in this situation to convey false emotions.

[Urist]

On the topic of muscle-steroids, I'd point out that one of the useful angles of regular exercise for soldiers is that it gives them something to *do*. To work off a lot of the spare energy that young, well-trained and fit people tend to accumulate... in a regulated and non-destructive manner. You don't want a group of bored, off-duty soroin trying something like cooking their day's meal using blasters set to power-1, or hacking the gravity generators in their quarters to triple-power and holding sparring sessions to see "what the average Shell feels like fighting in normal gravity." Much better to have them pressing weights in the ship's gym, or running laps through the (large) corridors.

As to "what amount of showing emotions is considered heroic?", IIRC I've seen papers arguing that much of that image came up in approximately the ~1700s-1800s, when the mass introduction of gunpowder into warfare made the "daring, impulsive and headstrong but also emotional" warrior-hero of the past rather less useful of an ideal compared to the new "level-headed, calm soldier who will stand unflinchingly under fire for hours if need be" model, and so social ideas of what a 'hero' was like changed to fit. And even then, that era had room to admire the 'older style' of emotive warrior-heroes.

That said, I *do* wonder if loroi officers throughout history (as in, the ones placed in charge of junior/younger warriors to lead them in combat) ever were expected to train a 'mini' lotai-esque skill, to at least partially hide their own doubts during combat from the other warriors under their command. Nobody wants to see their CO panicking or even holding strong doubts when moving into combat, *especially* when such responses would be the logical reaction to the situation.

[Arioch]

I'm reminded of a sequence from The American President:

ROBIN: "I think the important thing is not to make it look like we're panicking."
SHEPHERD: "See, and I think the important thing is actually not to be panicking."

An important skill of a psionic leader is to be able to block oneself off from telepathic intrusion, so one might be able to hide one's mental state, but that would mean closing yourself off from you own troops. It would be like hiding your face to conceal that you're crying... not subtle.

[White]

Regarding color vision.

Human color vision is compiled from a series of cone cells that react to particular wave lengths. Other creatures on earth sometimes have vastly different mechanism for the same.

https://youtu.be/nfAqTSjMBJk?si=46ENWukcjBJrfotK

So with regards the Loroi and other alien races, screen is they did all use the "three cone cells" configuration, would they find hardware designed to create the illusion of color in humans (RGB cells for example) has a "drift factor"that, due to the differences of wavelength sensitivity, creates an inaccurate, color-shifted image whenever displayed on human hardware?

Are there any differences within the races of the empire. If so, would that perhaps be the reason why they use mono-color or abstract color displays in their system maps?

[Arioch]

Human color vision is compiled from a series of cone cells that react to particular wave lengths. Other creatures on earth sometimes have vastly different mechanism for the same.

So with regards the Loroi and other alien races, screen is they did all use the "three cone cells" configuration, would they find hardware designed to create the illusion of color in humans (RGB cells for example) has a "drift factor"that, due to the differences of wavelength sensitivity, creates an inaccurate, color-shifted image whenever displayed on human hardware?

Are there any differences within the races of the empire. If so, would that perhaps be the reason why they use mono-color or abstract color displays in their system maps?

I think that at this tech level, display pixels would probably glow directly at the specified wavelength for a particular color rather than depending on an RGB composite or something similar. As to exactly how Loroi vision structures work, I think that's beyond the level of detail I'm interested in getting into.

My guess is that regardless of the vision mechanism, an organism would need to have very precise vision resolution in order to be able to distinguish the separate RGB elements in one of our displays. Loroi vision is not significantly higher resolution than ours. I'm not sure how different eye mechanisms would "mix" an RGB composite like this (not having researched the matter and refusing to watch a Veritasium video), but since it's very unlikely that anyone in the story is going to be called upon to view 100-year-old human displays, I'm not sure that it really matters.

As to the frequency range of color vision, I think it would be similar for most races that live in similar environments to us. Earth land organisms may have very different vision mechanisms, but as far as I'm aware most have a similar range of vision, with some having ranges that go higher or lower, but not by a lot. I assume there are specific reasons for this, which will apply to alien organisms as well. So I think it will be mainly those races that live in very different environments (Golim and Pipolsid) that will have significantly different spectrum range of vision. I think it makes sense that Golim would need to see farther into the infrared due to the thickness and temperature of their atmosphere, and Pipolsid would need to have vision skewed toward shorter wavelengths to see better in water. Though vision is probably not the primary sensory mode for Pipolsid.

When designing Loroi displays I tried to use different color themes based on their biology... I tried to use yellow instead of red for warning colors, and blue as a neutral color instead of earthtones. Tried, anyway.

[White]

I think that at this tech level, display pixels would probably glow directly at the specified wavelength for a particular color rather than depending on an RGB composite or something similar. As to exactly how Loroi vision structures work, I think that's beyond the level of detail I'm interested in getting into.

My guess is that regardless of the vision mechanism, an organism would need to have very precise vision resolution in order to be able to distinguish the separate RGB elements in one of our displays. Loroi vision is not significantly higher resolution than ours. I'm not sure how different eye mechanisms would "mix" an RGB composite like this (not having researched the matter and refusing to watch a Veritasium video), but since it's very unlikely that anyone in the story is going to be called upon to view 100-year-old human displays, I'm not sure that it really matters.

As to the frequency range of color vision, I think it would be similar for most races that live in similar environments to us. Earth land organisms may have very different vision mechanisms, but as far as I'm aware most have a similar range of vision, with some having ranges that go higher or lower, but not by a lot. I assume there are specific reasons for this, which will apply to alien organisms as well. So I think it will be mainly those races that live in very different environments (Golim and Pipolsid) that will have significantly different spectrum range of vision. I think it makes sense that Golim would need to see farther into the infrared due to the thickness and temperature of their atmosphere, and Pipolsid would need to have vision skewed toward shorter wavelengths to see better in water. Though vision is probably not the primary sensory mode for Pipolsid.

When designing Loroi displays I tried to use different color themes based on their biology... I tried to use yellow instead of red for warning colors, and blue as a neutral color instead of earthtones. Tried, anyway.

Huh. I always thought veritasium was generally reliable in the science side of things, or is it that he has some certified loverboy accusations I've missed out on? That seems to be happening with every YouTuber these days.

Regarding the "vision range" I meant it more in the sense that their equivalent in cone cells might end up reacting to different specific wavelengths in the visible spectrum, hence leading to the compositing difficulties, but as you've said that's probably a moot point given the tech level.

I am curious about the biologically based displays, though because, for the loroi, wouldn't "blue" be a warning color due to their blood? What significance would yellow hold for them biologically? Is it their bruising color perhaps?

[Arioch]

I am curious about the biologically based displays, though because, for the loroi, wouldn't "blue" be a warning color due to their blood? What significance would yellow hold for them biologically? Is it their bruising color perhaps?

Blue is the color of Loroi blood, but it's also the color of their skin and it's a common hair color, so I don't think it would work as a warning color.

Also, I wonder about why red is a warning color for humans. Our red blood is obviously part of it, but... there are lots of poisonous animals that have red as a warning color that are insects and reptiles and other creatures that don't have red blood. I guess maybe just being an unusual color compared to the environment might be enough.

[White]

Blue is the color of Loroi blood, but it's also the color of their skin and it's a common hair color, so I don't think it would work as a warning color.

Also, I wonder about why red is a warning color for humans. Our red blood is obviously part of it, but... there are lots of poisonous animals that have red as a warning color that are insects and reptiles and other creatures that don't have red blood. I guess maybe just being an unusual color compared to the environment might be enough.

Personally never been fully convinced by the idea that biological determinism had too much to do with human color associations. I do think that, if anything, blood is probably the primary reason for the red association.

Running the numbers off the top of my head, warning colors that I'm familiar with tend to be black/yellow, orange/black, and blue primarily if you consider just hornets, butterflies, coral snakes, lizards and all their mimickers. In fact, the only dangerous and red creature that come to mind is the black widow: a species that apparently isn't even that deadly.

Although, going over this did make me realize that patterns may be more important in signaling danger than color. Most of the species I can think of have some form of stripes, rings or other geometric patterns to distinguish them.

This might make sense of you consider that not all species have the same color vision, and even humans tend to rely on patterns when putting up things like biological or chemical hazard signals.

[Arioch]

Contrasting bands are a standard feature of warning coloration because they are easier to see, but red and yellow (or some combination) are the most common warning colors aside from white and black. My guess is that this is because they are easier to see rather than some kind of association with blood; either because there is something about the sensitivity to most eyes to those colors, or simply because they are rare in the environment. There's no easy blood association with yellow, which is the more common warning color.

I think it's also worth pointing out that red and yellow are also typical colors for fruits and flowers, things that want to get attention but which are explicitly not supposed to be dangerous.

[Urist]

Well, while we're on the topic of 'colors':

Assuming that Alex's eyes are officially brown (which is what I'd call them), would that be considered a strange eye-color by the loroi? They seem to have a good bit more color diversity than humans at least when it comes to hair color; are there loroi with brown irises?

Thanks in advance!

[Arioch]

Assuming that Alex's eyes are officially brown (which is what I'd call them), would that be considered a strange eye-color by the loroi? They seem to have a good bit more color diversity than humans at least when it comes to hair color; are there loroi with brown irises?

There are Loroi with brown eyes, but it's not a common color.