Couple questions

[Arioch]

Wasn't she the primary rival to Greywind for the emperorship?

Stillstorm was a political opponent of the officer who eventually became the Fourth Emperor (Greywind), but Stillstorm was never herself in consideration for the succession -- she was only a senior captain when the Third Emperor was killed. Stillstorm was gravely injured when she lost her ship in the battles for the Tasinei Ways after the Semoset offensive failed. The physical and psychological trauma almost ended Stillstorm's career (she lost her crew and all her friends in the collapse of the Nelain salient, including both of her daughters and her mentor Admiral Sunfall), but after a length recovery she returned to duty. However, Greywind's administration never forgot Stillstorm's opposition, and they assigned her to raider duty and left her there.

We've seen Loroi written words featured fairly prominently so far. It's been in the tapestry of Tempest, on signs in the Tempest's hallways, and, of course, on computer stations. My question is, about how lettered is Loroi society? Is writing important to them? Do they have a sense of literary aestheticism, or any sort of tradition of written language as art? Would the common Loroi enjoy reading a book? Or is writing pretty much solely functional to them? I'd think their telepathy would really damage the perceived artfulness of non-telepathic language, but, if writing isn't an art form to them, why is it integrated into an actual work of art in the form of the tapestry?

Telepathy is as ephemeral as speech, and so the written word is in some ways as important to the Loroi as it is to us; as you can expect, it's the primary way in which a Loroi can leave a "permanent" message.

However I do think that the Loroi consider writing to be almost entirely functional, sort of the way most of us view mathematics. The Loroi obsession with visual style allows for a certain interest in calligraphy and the graphic presentation of written language, but I think that's mostly where the art ends. The only "permanent" Loroi art is the visual. Telepathic storytelling, music, dance and the like are considered by the Loroi to be performance arts, and are all about the moment.

[Mjolnir]

it has some theory bu the basis is that their are many hypotheses and theories as to the cause, but not definitive answers. But that won;t stop this forum member now will it :)

There's a lot of theories about why the handedness is what it is, but it's pretty simple to understand why there's a handedness at all. Take two chiral compounds with a mixture of both left and right handed forms, and you have three sets of chemical combinations going on...L-L, 2x L-R, and R-R. If you only want L-L and R-R, you lose half of your reactants to an undesired reaction. Even if you arrange things so the L-R reactions are impossible or quickly recycled, you basically halve the concentration of the solution, reducing the rate of reaction...a L has to find another L, all the R's out there comprising half the population of reactants won't do.

So, aside from the low level hereditary mechanisms being inherently chiral, organisms with the biochemical machinery to consistently absorb and produce molecules with a common handedness and a biochemistry based on the more restricted set of reactions that result will have faster, more efficient metabolisms. The earliest living things, not yet entirely distinct from the surrounding chemical stews, might have had more mixed-chirality metabolisms, but this would have been quickly selected against, especially once byproducts of other organisms started to be a major source of nutrients.

[NOMAD]

it has some theory bu the basis is that their are many hypotheses and theories as to the cause, but not definitive answers. But that won;t stop this forum member now will it

There's a lot of theories about why the handedness is what it is, but it's pretty simple to understand why there's a handedness at all. Take two chiral compounds with a mixture of both left and right handed forms, and you have three sets of chemical combinations going on...L-L, 2x L-R, and R-R. If you only want L-L and R-R, you lose half of your reactants to an undesired reaction. Even if you arrange things so the L-R reactions are impossible or quickly recycled, you basically halve the concentration of the solution, reducing the rate of reaction...a L has to find another L, all the R's out there comprising half the population of reactants won't do.


So, aside from the low level hereditary mechanisms being inherently chiral, organisms with the biochemical machinery to consistently absorb and produce molecules with a common handedness and a biochemistry based on the more restricted set of reactions that result will have faster, more efficient metabolisms. The earliest living things, not yet entirely distinct from the surrounding chemical stews, might have had more mixed-chirality metabolisms, but this would have been quickly selected against, especially once byproducts of other organisms started to be a major source of nutrients.

WoW learn something every day. So do you believe in any Cultural adaptation. I remember a family member recalling that he was ambidextrous but was force to be right handed only. A clear cultural/social reason but how much ?

[Razor One]

WoW learn something every day. So do you believe in any Cultural adaptation. I remember a family member recalling that he was ambidextrous but was force to be right handed only. A clear cultural/social reason but how much ?

Chirality in living organisms is different from molecular chiralities. The Wikipedia article does the subject more justice than I can on my tea break.

[Karst45]

WoW learn something every day. So do you believe in any Cultural adaptation. I remember a family member recalling that he was ambidextrous but was force to be right handed only. A clear cultural/social reason but how much ?

Well it mostly a religious thing here, cause being left handed was a sign of the devil. and dont look far, that a catholic thing.

From experience i can say that yes with Cultural pressure, you can learn something that isnt natural for you. Like switching from left handed to right handed. but i dont fell you will be as good as you could be if you stayed left handed.

[NOMAD]

WoW learn something every day. So do you believe in any Cultural adaptation. I remember a family member recalling that he was ambidextrous but was force to be right handed only. A clear cultural/social reason but how much ?

Chirality in living organisms is different from molecular chiralities. The Wikipedia article does the subject more justice than I can on my tea break.

That is true, although from what I gather of the article and Mjolnir points is that right of left or both handedness can be found from and chemistry point of view and that for our system, right is more dominant. ( not sure if you noticed at the bottom of the wiki article, under related links Chirality (chemistry),
Chirality (mathematics), Chirality (physics), thus their are different applications/modes)

WoW learn something every day. So do you believe in any Cultural adaptation. I remember a family member recalling that he was ambidextrous but was force to be right handed only. A clear cultural/social reason but how much ?

Well it mostly a religious thing here, cause being left handed was a sign of the devil. and dont look far, that a catholic thing.

From experience i can say that yes with Cultural pressure, you can learn something that isnt natural for you. Like switching from left handed to right handed. but i dont fell you will be as good as you could be if you stayed left handed.

That is what happen to the family member, thankfully I didn't experience that element of their childhood. And I've experience what you mean by using the left hand, since it is weaker than the dominate one. But to my experience its a matter of comfort/experience.

[manticore7]

Stillstorm was a political opponent of the officer who eventually became the Fourth Emperor (Greywind), but Stillstorm was never herself in consideration for the succession -- she was only a senior captain when the Third Emperor was killed. Stillstorm was gravely injured when she lost her ship in the battles for the Tasinei Ways after the Semoset offensive failed. The physical and psychological trauma almost ended Stillstorm's career (she lost her crew and all her friends in the collapse of the Nelain salient, including both of her daughters and her mentor Admiral Sunfall), but after a length recovery she returned to duty. However, Greywind's administration never forgot Stillstorm's opposition, and they assigned her to raider duty and left her there.

actually a lot of Loroi where upset about Greywind who was from the Mizol caste becoming Emperor also, I seem to detect a bit of hostility ( maybe to strong of word) between Stillstorm and Tempo. Am I correct in asuming that the Mizols arn't the most "popular" among the Loroi Military?

[Solemn]

actually a lot of Loroi where upset about Greywind who was from the Mizol caste becoming Emperor also, I seem to detect a bit of hostility ( maybe to strong of word) between Stillstorm and Tempo. Am I correct in asuming that the Mizols arn't the most "popular" among the Loroi Military?

My understanding is that Mizol exist for the purposes of speaking to aliens, lying to other Loroi, communicating with Farseers and/or across large distances, and engaging in general skullduggery, in a society that openly despises aliens, speaking, lying, and skullduggery.
That's not exactly a recipe for popularity.

[NOMAD]

My understanding is that Mizol exist for the purposes of
speaking to aliens, lying to other Loroi, communicating with Farseers and/or across large distances, and engaging in general skullduggery, in a society that openly despises aliens, speaking, lying, and skullduggery.
That's not exactly a recipe for popularity.

I get the feeling that in most military organization intel and spy agencies are, in most cases, looked upon with some suspicion to sometimes outright fear (USSR agencies and a few other come to mind). On the other hand, the intel spy guy's (gals too) are often so needed that they are tolerated (or welcomed) since their role is so crucial .

Now that may not be fully true, since I've got no direct experience in the military and have heard off-hand account from friends and vets ( and alot of moives and vets so . . . .

edit: saw error corrected them

[Arioch]

In addition to their functions in intelligence, diplomacy and espionage, Mizol have some functions that are similar to a political officer. So regular officers are often a little bit uneasy with a Mizol looking over their shoulders.

[manticore7]

no doubt the regular officers can't shake the feeling that the Mizol is just WAITING for them to fail/step out of line if irrational fears are possible with the Loroi

[Karst45]

I seem to detect a bit of hostility ( maybe to strong of word) between Stillstorm and Tempo. Am I correct in asuming that the Mizols arn't the most "popular" among the Loroi Military?

well any one that can say "shut the f*** up" to a captain on his/her ship, is bound to get hostile glare from the said captain.

no doubt the regular officers can't shake the feeling that the Mizol is just WAITING for them to fail/step out of line if irrational fears are possible with the Loroi

Well at some point i suppose a loroi spy should have quite a strong Lotai, so if you cant fell exactly what the other is "saying" then yes i suppose your imagination could wander to the "worst case scenario"

[NOMAD]

well any one that can say "shut the f*** up" to a captain on his/her ship, is bound to get hostile glare from the said captain.

True, but that glare may be applied to both military or high minded civilians ( who think they know a combat situation hrm the turd in Avatar for example). However, given what Arioch has stated about Still Storm ( whom I'm feeling more sympathy for given all that she has lost) the Mizol caste may still be keeping an eye of Storm (and Tempo seems to how know to push Still Storms buttons http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider070.html
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider071.html)

What I find most interesting is this possibility: could tempo pull still-storm and have her arrested with enough real evidence ( or forged). IIRC it cold be done from the old forums. Anyone's memory better than mine ?

no doubt the regular officers can't shake the feeling that the Mizol is just WAITING for them to fail/step out of line if irrational fears are possible with the Loroi

Well at some point i suppose a loroi spy should have quite a strong Lotai, so if you cant fell exactly what the other is "saying" then yes i suppose your imagination could wander to the "worst case scenario"

right on the money Karst, yet one thing I notice on page 71 is Tempo reaction after the whole discussion (pushing her hair back over her ear) and confronting Still Storms using her previous loss may have gone to far or is was just awkward). I don't read body language too good so help me out here

[Luge]

right on the money Karst, yet one thing I notice on page 71 is Tempo reaction after the whole discussion (pushing her hair back over her ear) and confronting Still Storms using her previous loss may have gone to far or is was just awkward). I don't read body language too good so help me out here

Its tricky... When I first read those last panels just showing Tempo and Stillstorm's faces, I interpreted that there was telepathic communication going on between them. Now I'm not so sure - I kind of got the feeling that Tempo and Stillstorm had already had that whole conversation once already in private, and there was no need to repeat it.

Tempo is almost trying to look innocent... Stillstorm's look says, "You're really going to cling on to this crazy notion and let the alien stay, aren't you?"

L.

[Sprawl63]

Here's a question: What are Loroi cities like? Are they dense metropolis's like New York or Shanghai? Do they have the same "concrete jungles" that we do?

[Arioch]

Here's a question: What are Loroi cities like? Are they dense metropolis's like New York or Shanghai? Do they have the same "concrete jungles" that we do?

The Loroi are spread across a number of different worlds, so there will be a wide range of large and small cities, and rural communities. Many of the urban areas on Deinar and the other sister worlds will be more like European cities in the sense that they are ancient cities and people are concerned about preserving history and culture rather than growth. And the rigid social system means that people don't have the freedom of movement that we might be used to. But in the colonies such as on Maia or Seren tradition isn't as important, and large "new" cities are built. Maia is mostly rural, but there are some Los Angeles-style suburban megacities in the coastal areas, and Maia's habitable moon Donei has some high-density arcology-style development.

[Trantor]

Many of the urban areas on Deinar and the other sister worlds will be more like European cities in the sense that they are ancient cities and people are concerned about preserving history and culture rather than growth.

Is there enough left? I mean, as a warrior-culture there might be huge losses.
Remember: Town-planners best friend is the bomberpilot...

Maia is mostly rural, but there are some Los Angeles-style suburban megacities in the coastal areas, and Maia's habitable moon Donei has some high-density arcology-style development.

A nice all-new insiderpage! YAY!
A minor glitch: The link at the bottom under the insider-logo leads to the indexpage.

[Ktrain]

Trantor, I remember Arioch state that most Loroi resolved interstate conflicts before the implementation/development of industrialized mass warfare (they were using swords over firearms well into the industrial era for cultural reasons). Furthermore the Loroi never deployed nuclear weapons against each other because interstate conflicts were resolved prior to this technological breakthrough.

Though I cannot help but feel that even though Maia is the most populous world, using it mainly as an agricultural base is wasteful. What percentage of Maia's population is engaged in agriculture, because the article implies that a large portion of the people live rurally and thus should be engaged in activities related to agriculture and "much of Maia is still utilized as farmland?"

Another question, did the Loroi ever develop a concept similar to capitalism/market economies or is their understanding of economics based more tradition/moral constraints?

[Arioch]

Is there enough left? I mean, as a warrior-culture there might be huge losses. Remember: Town-planners best friend is the bomberpilot...

There is always collateral damage, but for the most part (with a few notable exceptions) Loroi seldom directly targeted civilian infrastructure. And as Ktrain mentioned, there were only a few major conflicts after the development of modern weaponry.

A minor glitch: The link at the bottom under the insider-logo leads to the indexpage.

Ugh, about 90% of the pages have the same error.

Though I cannot help but feel that even though Maia is the most populous world, using it mainly as an agricultural base is wasteful.

What do you mean by "wasteful?" What would you use it for?

Another question, did the Loroi ever develop a concept similar to capitalism/market economies or is their understanding of economics based more tradition/moral constraints?

Most Loroi worlds have managed economies. Business is considered a civilian pursuit (warriors are prohibited from owning businesses), and so is viewed with suspicion by the ruling warrior class. After the formation of the Union, the Loroi economy opened up somewhat, following more capitalistic models (provided by the Neridi and Barsam) that allowed for faster growth. But many businesses were nationalized under the martial law instituted by Greywind in 2140, so there are still a lot of restrictions on the economy.

[Ktrain]

Wasteful might have been an incorrect label. Perhaps inefficient overallocation of societal resources devoted toward agricuture

The U.S. is a major agricultural producer but it is not the primary focus of its economy. It possesses large stretches of arable which greatly benefited the nations initial development, but now only 2% of the workforce and .7% of GDP source :http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib3/eib3.htm Very few individuals are really necessary for cultivation and even fewer are needed if the ground is readily workable. Agriculture serves are a base for specialization

People are the number one resource. I would expect a world with a large population, large tracts of fertile landscape, and a high level of technology to have a very specialized workforce with an economy focusing not mainly on agriculture but on producing high-tech items, industrial goods, education and an advanced service sector. Production where the people are. Hell, I feel this world should be the economic epicenter of the empire. (Though I suppose Donei does play some of these roles)

Maia's agricultural export focus suggest that two conditions:cultural tradition/caste structure and the plentiful availability of labor, which may have inhibited the development of less labor intensive and more capital intensive agriculture and thus stunted a specialized economy focused on technological goods/services.

Question: How is war production handled for the Loroi? Are ships and such made by civilians or are they in-house projects by the state?