Couple questions

[NOMAD]

ktrain . . . WHY . . . why did you provoke him ?

No regrets. Best fanart ever.

well I would like to see that on a Umiak ship

[Trantor]

I'm having trouble finding reliable numbers on WWII-era destroyer magazine capacities. It looks like modern destroyers carry more like 500 rounds per mount, so perhaps the numbers I quoted may be on the low side. But it's in that order of magnitude.

Not only destroyers, but here are some numbers for the german ships of WW2:

Bismarck-class:

38 cm (15") 840 Shells
15 cm (6") 1.800 Shells
10,5 cm (4") 6.720 Shells
3,7 cm Flak 32.000 Rounds
2 cm Flak 24.000 Rounds

Scharnhorst-class:

28 cm (11") 1.350 Shells
15 cm 1.600 Shells
10,5 cm 6.000 Shells
3,7 cm Flak 32.000 Rounds
2 cm Flak 20.000 Rounds

This is the pocket-battleships (Graf Spee et al):

28 cm 720 Shells
15 cm 1.200 Shells
10,5 cm 2.400 Shells
3,7 cm Flak 8.000 Rounds
2 cm Flak 20.000 Rounds

Admiral-Hipper-class (Prinz Eugen et al):

20,3 cm (8") 1.280 Shells
10,5 cm 4.800 Shells
3,7 cm Flak 4.000 Rounds
2 cm Flak 56.000 Rounds


Per whole ship, not per cannon.

HTH.

[Grayhome]

I wonder what size the driver rounds for Outsider are... awesome data Tran!


Also, are you a real Doctor by any chance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO0kRE5OTZI

[NOMAD]

Yeah, good finds Trantor

where did you find this ?

[Trantor]

Also, are you a real Doctor by any chance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO0kRE5OTZI

<dr. tran>
AAAAH! I´M. NOT. A. DOCTOOOR!!!
</dr. tran>

(I´m just an engineer, the "lowest" title in germany. )

Yeah, good finds Trantor

where did you find this ?

German Wikipedia, and at least for Bismarck and Prinz Eugen these numbers are correct due to cross-check with some old books i own, so i think all numbers match with a few % +/- (also these military articles on the german wp are heavily "protected" by their "creators"...)

The numbers are for "normal" storage, they can vary a bit with varying distribution of space for shells, eg Bismarck could carry up to 960 15" shells when they leave some 4" and 6" behind.
But that wasn´t too practical because you first had to carry the surplus 120 shells more or less manually to the turret-storage where the loaders are - impossible in combat or in high seas.

[NOMAD]

Thanks Trantor, I tired to find info int he book I have ( no luck). if I may ask what book didi you use.

[Trantor]

Thanks Trantor, I tired to find info int he book I have ( no luck). if I may ask what book didi you use.

Yes, the Bismarck was described in "Schlachtschiff Bismarck" by Heinrich Bredemeier, published by Koehler (no ISBN, too old), and the other information were a sidekick in a book about submarines, IIRC "Auch kleine Igel haben Stacheln (Little hedgehogs have stings, too)", where the author compared effectivity between apples and pines (also no ISBN, too old).

[ThatsNoMoon]

As for naughty Loroi microbes, I must assume that the Loroi had sufficient medical technology and concern for Alex's health to have considered these issues before they cracked him out of his suit.

Microorganisms co-evolve with their target species. We're vulnerable to diseases because they've spent millions of years honing themselves to target our weaknesses and exploit our systemic quirks. There are few diseases that can attack more than one species, and even then those tend to be limited to similar species. The scant few that can cross more severe barriers, such as 'bird flu', still only have a few vulnerable species with the rest being used as carriers.
While there are diseases that are somewhat 'universal' on earth these are basically restricted to things that don't target the body directly. E-Coli, for example, does its damage by massively out-competing other gut bacteria, reproducing like crazy, and causing intestinal rupture.

Again, this is all on earth where everything shares common genetic ancestors and have been together for millions of years. Alex and the Loroi don't have any of that between them, so there's little chance anything they have will affect him.

Cross-planetary diseases are highly implausible, so we don't have to worry about a chapter with a 'war of the worlds' plague.


This of course brings me to my question: Given their mutual curiosity and social chemistry there's a decent chance that Alex will become romantically interested in Beryl. Given her curiosity and interest I expect she would give it a try, but how common are pair bondings among the Loroi? Given how little we know about Loroi sexuality, how would the presence of a species that's aesthetically and sexually compatible affect Loroi society should humans begin to integrate?

[Ktrain]

I doubt the Spanish Fly will also be another communicable disease

[GeoModder]

Bismarck-class:

38 cm (15") 840 Shells
15 cm (6") 1.800 Shells
10,5 cm (4") 6.720 Shells
3,7 cm Flak 32.000 Rounds
2 cm Flak 24.000 Rounds

Scharnhorst-class:

28 cm (11") 1.350 Shells
15 cm 1.600 Shells
10,5 cm 6.000 Shells
3,7 cm Flak 32.000 Rounds
2 cm Flak 20.000 Rounds

This is the pocket-battleships (Graf Spee et al):

28 cm 720 Shells
15 cm 1.200 Shells
10,5 cm 2.400 Shells
3,7 cm Flak 8.000 Rounds
2 cm Flak 20.000 Rounds

Admiral-Hipper-class (Prinz Eugen et al):

20,3 cm (8") 1.280 Shells
10,5 cm 4.800 Shells
3,7 cm Flak 4.000 Rounds
2 cm Flak 56.000 Rounds


Per whole ship, not per cannon.

HTH.

Compared to how many cannons from each caliber? I usually know the main battery numbers (Bismarck had eight 38 cm guns for instance) out of my head, but the smaller calibers...

[Trantor]

...
Per whole ship, not per cannon.

HTH.

Compared to how many cannons from each caliber? I usually know the main battery numbers (Bismarck had eight 38 cm guns for instance) out of my head, but the smaller calibers...

Phew - good question, have to look them up, too.
But it´s sunday, and i´m lazy on the couch...

[fredgiblet]

This of course brings me to my question: Given their mutual curiosity and social chemistry there's a decent chance that Alex will become romantically interested in Beryl. Given her curiosity and interest I expect she would give it a try, but how common are pair bondings among the Loroi? Given how little we know about Loroi sexuality, how would the presence of a species that's aesthetically and sexually compatible affect Loroi society should humans begin to integrate?

This is one of the questions that is widely and repeatedly discussed but never given an answer, probably because either it's a spoiler or Arioch likes watching us debate it endlessly.

While I'll decline to make a prediction for the comic (too many variables and too early in the story) my personal opinion is that it's not a question of if there's going to be pairings between humans and Loroi, but when and how many. I see human space as a likely destination for a small number of Loroi who don't wish to be part of Loroi society anymore, Loroi in this situation are likely to develop connections with the humans the live and work with and then things will take their course. Additionally there will likely be places where humans and Loroi work together and with the younger generation growing up serving with humans and used to sex when the sex is cut off by the end of the war they may be more inclined to seek it elsewhere. Of course this depends on humans and Loroi being on good terms, if we DON'T end the war as allies for the Loroi then the only person who'll have a chance will be Alex.

Other possibilities:
Human space may be a non-allowed destination and there may be strict control, unlikely unless there's a LOT of Loroi trying to get a human to make sexy time with.
Human space may become some sort of resort where Loroi go to get laid, "what happens on Earth stays on Earth", I find this unlikely as well for several reasons, xenophobia and lack of strong sex drive being main ones.

[fredgiblet]

Compared to how many cannons from each caliber? I usually know the main battery numbers (Bismarck had eight 38 cm guns for instance) out of my head, but the smaller calibers...

8 × 38 cm (15 in) SK C/34 (4 × 2)
12 × 15 cm (5.9 in) (6 × 2)
16 × 10.5 cm (4.1 in) SK C/33 (8 × 2)
16 × 3.7 cm (1.5 in) SK C/30 (8 × 2)
12 × 2 cm (0.79 in) FlaK 30 (12 × 1)

According to The Wiki.

[bunnyboy]

Other possibilities:
Human space may be a non-allowed destination and there may be strict control, unlikely unless there's a LOT of Loroi trying to get a human to make sexy time with.
Human space may become some sort of resort where Loroi go to get laid, "what happens on Earth stays on Earth", I find this unlikely as well for several reasons, xenophobia and lack of strong sex drive being main ones.

Human space turns to humaniti protectorate, where loroi control all weapon producing industry & research. Small amount of our pop culture find way to loroi underground and loroi hippies try to sneak here to get free sex & find Mickey Mouse, John Lennon, Elvis Personator or Santa Claus.

[Ktrain]

You forgot David Bowie!

[ThatsNoMoon]

Human space turns to humaniti protectorate, where loroi control all weapon producing industry & research.

I highly doubt that.
IIRC the Loroi have been space-faring for over 1,300 years while Humanity has been space-faring for less than 100.
Loroi technology is impressive but not so advanced that Alex can't grasp the basics. In my opinion Alex appears to be far more intimidated by the scale of combat than by the weapons used.
Loroi history has been far from peaceful, meaning that their rate of technological development certainly hasn't suffered from a dearth of pressure.
This all strongly suggests that compared to the Loroi Humans are preternaturally capable of research and development.

This is underscored by Loroi achieving maturity faster than Humans, living longer, and having very lenient aging curves until the very end, as this results in an average useful working life of any given person being about one order of magnitude larger. You get 40 years of useful working life out of a Human, but nearly 380 years of useful working life out of a Loroi.

The Loroi are skilled at tactical and strategic planning. They'll set up outposts and colonies all around Human space and embed researchers in Human R&D groups to make sure Humans don't hold out on them, but they'll let Humans manage R&D on their own to get the most out of their investment.

Oh, new questions:
What's the smallest you can make a jump drive?
How detailed and accurate are Loroi astrological maps?
How do the Loroi determine their jump vectors?
How small can the arrival zone get if you're doing short jumps?

Solar and planetary movements aren't chaotic, simply complex. With accurate and detailed information and sufficient computational effort you can model stellar behavior (and the resulting jump vectors) to an extreme level of accuracy. The Interplanetary Transport Network is a good example of similar modeling being put into practice with very good results.
IIRC the mean solar density of the milky way is 0.051 stars per cubic lightyear, and while I don't know the average density of the area used in the story I would like to note that number is propped up by the high density of stars clustered around the core. The safe limit of a mere 6-10ly suggests that there's a problem with modeling jumps, with gathering accurate information, or with with jump drive accuracy and precision.
Since the Loroi can gather that information with relative ease and have had ages to refine their equipment I would expect that the problem is with modeling systems and jumps. Humans would have the opposite problem; computationally we are already capable of easily modeling astronomical behavior to extreme precision in real time on common hardware, but we lack accurate and precise data and in the comic humanity's jump drives are new and thus likely to be very crude.

[GeoModder]

Compared to how many cannons from each caliber? I usually know the main battery numbers (Bismarck had eight 38 cm guns for instance) out of my head, but the smaller calibers...

8 × 38 cm (15 in) SK C/34 (4 × 2)
12 × 15 cm (5.9 in) (6 × 2)
16 × 10.5 cm (4.1 in) SK C/33 (8 × 2)
16 × 3.7 cm (1.5 in) SK C/30 (8 × 2)
12 × 2 cm (0.79 in) FlaK 30 (12 × 1)

According to The Wiki.

Now add such info to all those shipclasses in your previous post and it will be a well-informed one.

You forgot David Bowie!

"The stars look very peculiar todaaaaaay!!!"

[bunnyboy]

Human space turns to humaniti protectorate, where loroi control all weapon producing industry & research.

I highly doubt that.
-clip-

Humans surely could kick loroi in long term technology race, but I don't think loroi allow that. Earth is like District 9, but backwards, armed loroi anywhere looking interesting technology and asking what it does.

[Ktrain]

Humans surely could kick loroi in long term technology race, but I don't think loroi allow that. Earth is like District 9, but backwards, armed loroi anywhere looking interesting technology and asking what it does.

Solution: just hide advanced technology in plain sight.

*In a Southern accents* Well that there is a toothbrush.... and that there also is a sonic toothbrush... and that thar is a self contained quantum singularity, it secretes toothpaste.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a more serious track: There are three probable scenarios which could transpire if humanity were to ally with the Union.

a). Humanity becomes an independent ally akin to the Historians or Nissek.
b). Humanity becomes a subjugated population of the Loroi. This scenario would most likely be opposed by other members of the Union for two reasons: 1) Mankind is not technologically backwards enough to justify making them a protectorate. 2) Subjugation of humanity weakens the voting power of non-Loroi members.
c). Humanity becomes a full member of the Union; this could be of benefit to non-Loroi members of the Union as it dilutes the Loroi voting block's power.

[ThatsNoMoon]

Humans surely could kick loroi in long term technology race, but I don't think loroi allow that. Earth is like District 9, but backwards, armed loroi anywhere looking interesting technology and asking what it does.

I doubt humans have much that the Loroi would want, and the best way to acquire those things would be trading technology and information that's already common among the Union and its allies.
You're also missing the real utility that humans would offer, which is rapid technological advancement. Since it's hard to make people think for you it wouldn't work too well if the Loroi decided to take a military approach here.

Yes, in the long term Humanity would likely outpace the Loroi technologically on their own, but by giving Humanity a shot in the arm the Loroi could set themselves up in a position where they would be keeping pace with Humanity thanks to mutually beneficial relationships.
You need to remember that R&D itself takes a significant amount of resources that can often dwarf the actual cost of production and deployment. The Loroi have the benefit of comparatively massive industrial backing, which means that they can cover those costs at a scale that Humanity couldn't hope to match.
Moving forward, the relative cost for acquiring those resources on its own would discourage Humanity from developing its industrial power, with the obvious result of Humanity becoming more and more dependent on outside resources as it grows and develops. Historically these arrangements are stable until one of the two groups can get a better deal elsewhere, which tends to be in the form of improved return on investment or friendlier relations.